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Wouldn't be able to trade for him. Only way to get him would be to offer a max deal next offseason and hope the Hawks don't match.
IMO, he’s perfect for the Spurs. Especially with the young budding nucleus of White, Keldon, Vassell, Lonnie, Dejounte, Poetl.
My question is what’s the best/most likely scenario of Spurs obtaining Collins?
Is it trading Aldridge or Derozan to Atlanta? Or simply make large offer next summer & pray that SA is his preferred destination?
If you can guaranteed land him with a LMA or Derozan trade I say pull the trigger
Wouldn't be able to trade for him. Only way to get him would be to offer a max deal next offseason and hope the Hawks don't match.
He is obviously the best young pf available next season. And obviously the Spurs need a pf.
Atlanta have a lot of players to pay or trade and Collins might be the odd man out but I don't think he's worth a max contract. He can put up stats but from what I've seen of him he doesn't impact winning as much as his gaudy stats would suggest.
The jump he had with his production offense and defense coincides with him playing more center (50%) which he would do less this year. He is more center than modern day four in my opinion, would not mind him but his offense thrives playing center but you can't survive with him as your only rim protector. An impossible player to build around and be a contender like KAT. I'm thinking pairing him with a big wing rim protector might work but KAT and Covington still failed.
There was a rumor that a Collins-Siakam swap was in play this was when TOR was focused on creating space to make a run at Giannis. We don't have a good PF that can help ATL now therefore we need a third team to facilitate a trade.
I would wait till the offseason, you are overpaying him to get him while giving up a significant asset, better to overpay him and give up a lesser asset like what IND did with the Brogdon sign and trade. Also there are a bunch of big wing and big man prospects in next years draft, we might lucked out on a better rebuilding piece.
The ideal modern PF for standard lineups is a big man with guard skills like Trey , Luka, Poku, Durant. In small ball lineups is a big wing like Rudy, Crowder, Iggy, Morris preferably those with weak side rim protection like Pat Williams, Covington, AK47.
Last edited by rankingtear; 12-22-2020 at 06:03 AM.
Max money for no D playing big man. No thanks.
I don't think this makes sense. If ATL won't match a max offer, and SA makes it clear they'll give him one, then ATL has a lot of incentive to trade Collins.
More generally, it'll depend both on how the Hawks are doing around the deadline and how much Collins is factoring into their performance. If they are doing well and guys like Capela, Okongwu and Gallo are tearing it up, then they might do a trade. And if they're horrible and Collins is sucking, they might do one. They can afford to keep him on a max long term, but it'll involve paying the tax for a year or so. That might be worth it, at least to start off.
I believe he is at the top of the spurs free agency board. I do believe that if they have to they will offer him a max. Doubt we can trade for him unless ATL wants Aldridge, Derozan, Gay, or Mills, which is all I would give them for Collins.
I don't mind that Collins isn't an ace defensively, tbh. Every player on our true core (Vassell, Keldon, White, maaaybe DJ or even Lonnie depending on this year) is an excellent defender for their position, and can plug the holes. We need offense right now, especially with the prospect (prayingdog.jpg) of both DD and LMA leaving at the same time, leaving a huge hole to be filled. Of course, the guards will do some of it, but having an uber-efficient 20-10 big man at a position of dire need is great.
A lineup of White-Vassell-Keldon-Collins-Poeltl (I see Collins as a small-ball 5 from what I've seen of his play, he'd struggle against bigs like Embiid or Jokic (lucky we have Poeltl for that)) is very balanced on O&D, switchable, gritty. Gimme some of that. Let's hope Atlanta really doesn't value Collins that much.
E: having said that, I definitely wouldn't trade for Collins. No sense to weaken the team for a player you can lure in FA. If he signs with another team, oh well, cap space has many uses... But I'd like him a lot.
I reckon you'd have to get rid of the 2021 1st round pick to get him. The question is, would you? As appealing as next year's draft is, I would. There's still uncertainty you're dealing with when you draft players. Collins is already an established one.
Only true Spurs homers believe we can attain Collins by just giving up our washed up vets.
Why give up an asset when you can just overpay for him? To think we could have a lottery pick in a stacked draft plus Collins this offseason would b nuts.
I'm saying it as if the Hawks have leverage. If the Spurs had no say whether to sign him outright or trade for him.
In cases like Collins, sign and trade usually happens.
Definitely not a max player. He's solid but not max worthy.
"Max player" is different for tiers of players though
The max for John is only 29 million because he's had less than five years of experience in the league. Compare that to Giannis' 45+ million.
To me, 29 million is hardly a "max".
That's only $10 million more than White. For a player who has proven he can put up 20 and 10. Sounds easy when you consider it was on a team that wasn't very good, but it's not. Not many players can do that.
, we wish Poetl could put up 20 and 10...
He'd be worth $29MM per season for what he'd bring the Spurs.
23 years old in September and one of two players in the NBA to average 20/10 while shooting >40% from three. Also happens to be maybe our biggest position of need going forward. Sign me TF up.
One of the best storylines for Spurs fans to follow is who becomes available on the demand-a-trade market at deadline and next summer. Sign and trade and absorb-into-space (for picks) will be best path to returning to playoffs.
A lottery pick and the ability to bring on two-ish max players is possible, assuming some salary goes out in a sign and trade.
John Collins is a good player, but his own team isn't enthusiastic about giving him a max and Collins plus another All Star wasn't good enough to make the playoffs in the East last season. Not clear that he's a needle mover.
Last edited by Excessive Egotist; 12-22-2020 at 01:12 PM.
Spurs aren't getting Collins. ST needs to drop this pipedream fantasy already
It's not much of a pipedream. He's gettable. But a mediocre player. Probably not an All Star in the West. Is he an All Star in the East?
Giannis was a pipe dream. Collins is far from one. Not sure how you landed at that conclusion.
Harden is a good player, but the Thunder isn't enthusiastic about giving him a max. Not clear that he's a needle mover.
He's kind of the ultimate dilemma, the guy who puts up numbers that are incredibly impressive & efficient and look like max player numbers, but whose impact on the court doesn't nearly match them. He'll never be close to a max guy in the truest sense-- like a LeBron, Giannis, or Duncan-- but he'll always be a very reliable net positive guy whose D needs to be hidden. He might not even be as impactful as Derrick Favors or Tobias Harris. Tough choice for a max contract, but I suppose also easily tradable once acquired. I would have preferred a Sabonis or Jonathan Isaac for less, but sadly the aura around the 2021 FA market has gone from historic to bland in the last couple of months.
Last edited by R. DeMurre; 12-22-2020 at 03:01 PM.
Harden is a good player, but Oklahoma's owner won't green light three max contracts and or going over the cap.
So who is to say Atlanta isn't operating the same way? My point is that the line of reasoning behind letting other teams determine a player's value/ talent through their actions is counter productive.
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