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  1. #1
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    Poeltl positive: His usual strong offensive rebounding/rim protection (allowing 51% at rim, a top 10 mark)

    Poeltl negative: Everything else. Confidence in tatters. Needs to pull himself together and up his agression considerably. Considering we've seen this before and he's young and healthy, no reason to expect he won't.

    Murray positive: Better speed/quickness, finishing, IQ.

    Murray negative: IQ bar was so low, it's still lacking. Counting stats are mostly a product of minutes/usage (inexplicably leads team) bump. League average true shooting %: 55. His: 51% thanks mostly to still barely shooting 3s/ft's. Good assist/turnover ration is 2 to 1: His slightly exceeds it, but his assist % of 24 isn't great for a top two initiator.

    White positive: incomplete.

    White negative: same, but continues to be injury prone.

    Walker positive: More 3's while continuing to shoot a good % (still needs to up his rate though), finishing, IQ

    Walker negative: A lot of the same as Murray, all of which has led to a 53% ts. Unlike the former, continues to have intermittent confidence/role related issues.

    Johnson positive: Powerful drives and 3 remain (though no one guards it). Has played stout post defense and done yeoman's work on boards, musts while playing out of position as nominal four.

    Johnson negative: Continues to show little clue what to do when he can't barrel his way to the rim and finish. Impertaive he develops footwork/handle (euro/side steps, step throughs, spin move, etc), in between game (pull ups, runners/floaters) and diversifies finishing package.

    Vassell positive: Has come as advertised as a heady team defender, solid individual one and volume 3-point shooter.

    Vassell negative: Given his cir ctances/role, haven't seen one.

    Conclusion: Definite improvement, but a lot of empty calories that have been obscured by counting stats tied to minutes/usage increase.
    Last edited by TD 21; 01-12-2021 at 06:07 PM.

  2. #2
    Lol Crews jjktkk's Avatar
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    Conclusion: A lot of empty calories that have been obscured by counting stats/usage.
    "A lot of empty calories" is your takes in a nuts . But on to your thread. What exactly were you expecting from these picks? None of thee players you posted about were surefire, can't miss prospects. The only lottery selection out of these Spur's players was Poeltl;, who was drafted by Toronto. Your thread would have merit if these players you mentioned were lottery picks, so I don't know why you felt the need to overanalyze and overexaggerate these mid to late, 1st round draft picks.

  3. #3
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    Walker, Murray, and KJ have all been better than the previous season. Of course they still have room for improvement, but it's hard to be disappointed with those three.

    Vassell looks like a player, he needs more minutes

    Can't judge White yet but he looked very good in limited minutes, his toe thing is just a freak accident but I get it is starting to appear the kid is made of glass

    No argument on Poeltl, dude has been a soft ass pussy and the biggest disappointment so far.

    All in all, SA is .500 and have had some impressive wins against the LA teams so I can't be too upset, especially given the injury issues they've dealt with thus far

  4. #4
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I do think it's important to keep in mind how much room for improvement the young players still have. As of yet, they need DeRozan and LMA to still be stars, and I firmly believe the offense should still run through them. I'm sure this thread will hang around for a while, and I might go into some depth about my views on your takes at some point. Don't disagree with the broad strokes though.

  5. #5
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    So is OP saying we should use our time machine and redo our picks, or trade them all and start over?

  6. #6
    Believe. Blackhaus's Avatar
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    I like the growth of all of them and the potential outside of Poodle, man what a disappointment he’s been thus far.

  7. #7
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    So is OP saying we should use our time machine and redo our picks, or trade them all and start over?
    Neither, just putting their performance in perspective . . . which will surely anger the apologists/homers.

  8. #8
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Conclusion: Definite improvement
    That's the most important part, tbh. I don't think any of the youngsters is past the point where it's safe to even call them a surefire above average starter going forward but there are enough encouraging signs that it allows that hope to remain. Keldon, for example, has shown that his bubble performance wasn't a total fluke caused by the small sample size ... and that alone is a good development.

    The only player on your list trending the wrong way is Poeltl ... but the NBA as a whole is trending away from his playertype so that shouldn't be a huge surprise to anyone who has paid attention. Plus, as has been noted, he started slowly the last two seasons.

    I don't have much of any issue with your writeup other than the le. Outside of a few hopeful Spurs fans, I don't think the general perception of the youngsters is wrong. It's not like any of the players receive any type of star-in-the-making type of hype.

  9. #9
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    Neither, just putting their performance in perspective . . . which will surely anger the apologists/homers.
    These are unfortunately extraordinary times. Fixing some things will take longer than it otherwise would. KBD especially...

  10. #10
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    Poodle is still young for his position. Time can still heal and improve things.

  11. #11
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    I don't think any of the youngsters is past the point where it's safe to even call them a surefire above average starter going forward.

    It's not like any of the players receive any type of star-in-the-making type of hype.
    I'm no criticizing them, but three have already received pricey extensions and Johnson looks poised to join them (Walker is less certain, but remains a possibility).

    The reality is, if at least one can't at least hit pseudo star level, going forward they probably have a mediocre-bad team that's not quite bad enough to get the best odds for the highest ranked prospects and no centerpiece for a star trade package . . . which isn't all that different from the past 3 seasons.

  12. #12
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing your thoughts OP.

    Like Timvp stated, the most encouraging aspect for me is that there definite improvement, at least from the majority of players on the roster.

    The question marks I had for re: some key players specifically coming into the season:

    - Could Dejounte’s and Lonnies’ basketball IQs start to measure up to their unique physical attributes?
    - Would Keldon have enough PT and usage to prove the bubble was more than just a personnel and situational advantage?
    - Can D. White stay healthy?
    - Would DDR and LMA cede enough offensive responsibilities for the young ones to thrive?
    etc, etc.

    have been IMHO answered in the affirmative, sans the White injury (which it too might prove to be a positive - allowing extra mins for Vassell that he certainly would not have had.)

    Looking forward to more data on this in the next 10 - 15 games.

  13. #13
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    The reality is, if at least one can't at least hit pseudo star level, going forward they probably have a mediocre-bad team
    "Team X will probably be mediocre/bad if young prospects don't develop as hoped."

    What a deep, courageous, bold statement. Tell us more, oh wise one

  14. #14
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    "Team X will probably be mediocre/bad if young prospects don't develop as hoped."

    What a deep, courageous, bold statement. Tell us more, oh wise one
    I don't get the combativeness/hostility, but typical.

    The difference is, most teams in their position are banking on high picks(s) developing into that during the life of their entry level contracts, which is generally a safer bet.

  15. #15
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    I'm actually pretty bullish on Murray, KJ, and Vassell. I don't think any are going to be stars, per say, but good NBA players-- not bad considering that the highest of those four was taen with the 11th pick. Obviously, they're need a star for these players to revolve around but its a pretty good star if and when the Spurs go in on a full rebuild.

    Murray- Better decision-making, i.e. less dead-end drives to the rim and pushing in transition for easier baskets. His jumper looks really good and he's shooting it with confidence and at double the rate he shot them last season (3.6 vs 1.7 per game). His 3pt percentage is slowly but surely rising too and his finishing at the rim has taken a step forward. I expect his TS% to increase to above average sooner rather than later. He'll have to increase his FT rate to maximize his efficiency but its a good start.

    Walker- Struggles with consistency and aggression levels but the talent is there. Has the athleticism and skill to get to the rim but still has to improve his effiency. Good news is that he's a legit good shooter and is shooting them at a pretty high volume (4.5 3pt per game). He still has to become a better defender but looks like he still has a lot of offensive upside, especially if he can draw more fouls and find a baseline of offensive aggression.

    Johnson-Also a good shooter (never doubted it, even after shooting poorly in the G-League because of how he was used in college). Drives hard and plays with hustle. As others have said, there are downsides to barreling into the paint-- injuries and offensive fouls. As OP stated, he'll have to develop more finesse such as euro-steps and spin moves to avoid some of that contact near the rim. He's shown promise on defense but probably never becomes an elite defender but probably still a good two-way player.

  16. #16
    Believe. Em-City's Avatar
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    At least they're fun to watch - i'll take their improvement as is, and enjoy throwing on spurs games where we can continue the fun brand of ball that was showcased in the bubble, as well as potential to further improve over a tanking squad any day.

  17. #17
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    I don't get the combativeness/hostility, but typical.

    The difference is, most teams in their position are banking on high picks(s) developing into that during the life of their entry level contracts, which is generally a safer bet.
    When was the last time the Spurs had a high pick?

    Oh, that's right...it was last offseason, and so far Vassell has shown all signs of being a valuable player worthy of the #11 pick.

    People seem to forget that Murray, White, and Johnson were all taken with the 29th pick, and Walker IV wasn't that far behind at 18.

    The fact that we can have a thread debating which one has the most star potential is a testament to the Spurs drafting.

    The only real disappointment in the bunch is Poeltl who was a lottery pick (by the Raptors), is still young, and his game seems to be trending in the wrong direction this season.
    Last edited by Dex; 01-12-2021 at 07:32 PM.

  18. #18
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    I don't get the combativeness/hostility, but typical.
    My guy, I agreed -- broadly speaking -- with what you wrote. The Spurs don't have any surefire studs amongst their youngsters. Notable strides have been made, as you admit, but too early to anoint anyone.

    I did find it funny that you tried to dress it up as if any of it is a hot take. Of course if young players don't continue to develop the team won't improve. That's true for any team in any sport

    The difference is, most teams in their position are banking on high picks(s) developing into that during the life of their entry level contracts, which is generally a safer bet.
    Eh. First off, I don't think that's true. Show me these "most teams" you speak of. Secondly, the players you're referencing (Murray and White) were late first round draft picks. The fact that they didn't emerge as stars by the end of their rookie contract is a weird complaint and isn't comparable to teams that have been stuck in the lottery for years. Murray and White were a product of The Gutless Worms Era The Golden Era, which meant they were drafted late, didn't have an opportunity to play right away and, for better or worse, would take time to develop. As we've seen with someone like Keldon Johnson who was drafted into a post-championship window team, the evaluation process will speed up naturally.

  19. #19
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    Agreed nothing new here

  20. #20
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Tre Jones will be what y'all thought Cory "no J" Oseph would be tbh..

    He's ready to contribute right away but sadly won't get a chance this year unless Dejounte gets hurt or Patty gets traded.

  21. #21
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    I did find it funny that you tried to dress it up as if any of it is a hot take. Of course if young players don't continue to develop the team won't improve. That's true for any team in any sport
    Gotta disagree here. Free agency and trades are viable ways to improve, and are why the Lakers are the defending champs and favorites right now. They sure as didn't get there through developing their young players.

    Admittedly there are no LeBron-level free agents out there, and the Spurs would be highly unlikely to land one of that caliber anyway. But I do see a potential path to improvement that doesn't heavily involve the young'uns.

  22. #22
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    Spurs Youth™ showing up in a solid win sans DeRozan, tbh

  23. #23
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I think the development has been terrific and we have a lot to look forward to. Their individual ceilings may not be that high -- we don't know -- but what they're doing is very exciting, plus in tandem. Getting these talents with such low picks is tremendous and Devin has barely even started the process.

  24. #24
    Veteran J_Paco's Avatar
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    "A lot of empty calories" is your takes in a nuts . But on to your thread. What exactly were you expecting from these picks? None of thee players you posted about were surefire, can't miss prospects. The only lottery selection out of these Spur's players was Poeltl;, who was drafted by Toronto. Your thread would have merit if these players you mentioned were lottery picks, so I don't know why you felt the need to overanalyze and overexaggerate these mid to late, 1st round draft picks.
    He is a Darryl Downer that always has to piss in someone's Cherrios.

    Wow, none of our non - lottery pick talent is elite. What an astute and amazing analysis that hasn't been said 1,000 times on SpursTalk.

    They've all shown some improvement, except for Poeltl (confidence is wavering) & Samanic, and that is what is most important. They all were pretty ho - hum last season - whether their fault or Pop's - so their improvement in play is telling.

    I'd love to jettison the veterans and "tank" for an elite prospect (Evan Mobley) to pair with the young guards/wings, but the team might be too talented to completely bottom out. Unless a wave of injuries completely derail the season then they'll likely be in the hunt for the play - in game or tournament.
    Last edited by J_Paco; 01-12-2021 at 11:14 PM.

  25. #25
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Y'all stop hating on TD 21. Nothing he is saying is wrong and he isn't adding fuel to any fire that deserves backlash. There's no need for personal attacks.

    As it stands, the young guys have been good, not great. It's okay to expect great when a lot of here (me included) were hyping the kids up.

    The reality is it's going to take time. For some players, they might not even get there.

    Truth be told, I believe we are in a better spot than where we were before pre-season where a couple of our guys looked hopeless already.

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