Reply With QuoteHey asshole give credit where credit is due. I was the first to express concerns about it Admiral agreed, Ghost tried to take credit.
Now that J O'neal seems certain to re-sign with Indy, and Jason Kidd is at best "iffy" to join the Spurs.
Elton Brand is a restricted FA. All other FA's are second tier players, none who are worthy of a max contract.
Since this HOLTING PATTERN started a couple of years ago, and we kept hearing how this was the Spurs big opportunity to land the coveted 2nd superstar, now that the final results are almost in, does everyone feel it has been worth it, or not? What are your opinions on how things have turned out? In my opinion, if I were a Spurs fan, I would be a little pissed. Luckily, the Spurs were able to turn in an awesome performance last season, and win a championship. But by no means should anyone confuse this with the idea that the Spurs had intended last year's roster to be their roster to contend for les for the future.
Some posters, like GHOSTWRITER, and ADMIRAL, expressed their concerns with "putting all your eggs in one basket" and that cap room does not guarentee that superstar FAs will flock to San Antonio. Yet, some of the homers insisted that the HOLTING PATTERN was a sure-fire way to attract the coveted 2nd superstar. From the way things are looking at the moment, that might not happen.
And to make matters worse, the Lakers found a way to have a far more successful offseason, with a fraction of money to offer FAs than what the Spurs have. Talk about rubbing it in the face.
Your opinions on this subject are greatly appreciated.
Hey asshole give credit where credit is due. I was the first to express concerns about it Admiral agreed, Ghost tried to take credit.
You miss the point entirely. The plan for max cap flexibility was to deal with life without David Robinson. The Spurs wanted to give themselves the best shot at retaining Tim Duncan and building a team around him. It was never just about luring a superstar to San Antonio.
Spurs fans take Tim Duncan for granted but he was never a lock to remain in SA. The last thing the Spurs needed was to have no cap flexibility and go into a summer in which DRob retired.
If the Spurs were in that situation then the same exact people (Ghost and Ghost Jr.) would be complaining about that.
I think it was ok to do. the spurs were contenders. and did when a le. I call that successfull. they also tried to net spree but da refused to go to anyteam then the blazers.
It's not over yet, adidas. Things look shaky right now, but I won't give up hope until every star is re-signed.
The basic principles still ring true, though:
Cap space!= Superstar signings
Trades = Acquired Talent
Hilarious. LA has gotten an oral commitment from one of two senior citizens, SA is waiting on the best FA, and it's OVER? Adidas, you disappoint me with your blatant homerism.
IceMan, we were never aware you had an opinion.
Archie, I don't think Duncan or the fans would've minded not having a lot of cap flexibility if we had traded for some nice, young talent or a veteran superstar during the Holt-ing Pattern, do you?
Question.
I in hate that phrase.
Spurs won a le in 99.
TD injured in 2000.
Lakers steamrolled in 2001.
Smith and AD couldn't hit a shot in 02.
Spurs win a tile in 03.
This infamous "H pattern" potentially cost us ONE le by not signing a FA that could knock down a 3pt shot in 02.
with TD out, no FA would have made a of difference in 2000, and can you name the free agent that would have made up for the ass whuppin's we got in 01?
Spurs fans would be ing about DA taking up $10 mil in cap or GP taking up $15.
You all ing kill me sometimes... If we resign Jackson, Claxton, Willis and Kerr and get PJ Brown, we will be ing fine and be able to compete with ing anyone.
I don't understand why, oh why, oh ing why, we have to have a max free agent to ing win.
We just won with a little bit of David Robinson...
MVP
Coach of the YEAR!
MVP Finals!
2003 NBA Champions!
Except for a few mishaps, turnovers and mistakes.. we would have drove right through all of the damn compe ion like a semi going West bound and down! !
Chill out! The Spurs will be a top team. Have some faith in your team's management.
**** Kidd. **** Payton. **** Malone.
Parker and Claxton all the way.....
Booo yaaaaaa....
Out!
no matter how we got here or why... the point is, you have 16 million dollars to spend, tim duncan, and you're coming off of a championship season... if you can't get what you want with that... and you let go of prospects like GG because you wanted to save some cap room... then it looks bad.
the lakers know that gary payton and malone are quick fixes, but shaq is old and getting older... if we're still trying to "plan for the future" with tim duncan in his late 20's and a championship... we're in trouble.
alot of people seem to think we can sign 2 second tier free agents and still have cap room next year to go after brand and resign manu (and thats not true) not unless we sign 2 old guys for around 7-8 million a piece for one year contracts... and the only two old guys worth it are being taken by the lakers.
still, i think the spurs are in good shape with that much capspace... they could absorb lopsided trades to get an impact player, or give out a good hunk of change to relatively mid-level players for one year contracts. or go the next best route and sign a guy like pj brown and keep most of the current roster... so in terms of a plan... thats not so bad. (having alot of flexibilty)
Quote: "Hilarious. LA has gotten an oral commitment from one of two senior citizens, SA is waiting on the best FA, and it's OVER? Adidas, you disappoint me with your blatant homerism. "
Read my post again, Kohai, or whatever you call yourself.
I never said it was over. But Kidd coming to San Antonio is now suspect at best. Regardless, he is surely not a lock to come to San Antonio. And that's the point I'm trying to make. Are some of the real die hard Spurs fans, who are also sensible, happy with the prospect of the slight possibility of Kidd coming to San Antonio representing the best chance for the highly vaunted FA 2003 Summer bonanza? For the past couple of years, we've been hearing about how the Spurs were going to have their pick of the litter when this summer came around, and that with all of the free cap space, FA's were going to be jumping over fences to come to San Antonio. That is obviously not the case. A better way to describe the situation is that the Spurs will be lucky if ANY FA's decide to come here, and that the Spurs can only roll out the offers and cross their fingers. Are you happy about the options that are left? Kandi? Brad Miller? Nothing??? That's the point that I'm trying to make.
Premature autopsies adidas.
I'm fine with the Holting pattern so far.
Didn't we just win a le?
You can give me some coulda-woulda-shoulda talk about winning more with trades, but that's just it -- talk.
Are we Spurs fans happy with winning another championship and having $16 mil in cap space to use? WTF kind of question is that?
I would've ignored public sentiment, dared Robinson to walk to the Knicks and held out longer for Webber in 2001.
I wanted us to let Anderson walk rather than take on Smitty as a two-year placeholder.
I would've accepted Chicago's offer of Mercer and Artest for Smitty in 2001.
I would've traded for Payton in 2001 to win in 2002 and 2003 and possibly have a star under contract today.
All of this could've been done during the Holt-ing Pattern[/b].
It's increasingly difficult to lure star free agents to new teams. Even with cap space, no income tax, a championship team, and a new practice facility, the Spurs are struggling.
:coold
Read again. Winning a championship this past season was not part of the Holting Pattern plan. The idea was to suplant David Robinson, who has retired, with either another superstar, or very solid center to replace him.
And yes, it's all what if's and coulda/shouldas right now.
But what would everyone be thinking if the Spurs had NOT won this past year?
This thread is NOT about how the Spurs won a championship this past year, with a roster that not many at the beginning of the season thought would be able to do it. Please stick to the subject, thank you.
am I happy about how it turned out?
**** no...
If we hadn't won a championship on the way I would be absolutely disgusted.
The fact that we can be NBA champs, have the reigning league MVP just entering his prime, 16 million in cap space, and can't get one decent ing free agent to come here just blows me away...especially with Payton and Malone going to the Lakers for exception money...it just rubs salt in the wound...
wouldacouldashoulda
yeah ghost... and i would have wanted us to win 3 championships during that time instead of one...
blah blah blah.
Well, when I was saying what we "shoulda" been doing, I had a bunch of dopes like ChumpDumper insisting that clearing cap space for 2003 was the best thing for the franchise. Things are looking bleak right now, as expected.
Never give up hope until all the stars are re-signed, though, peeps.
Spurs couldn't have gotten Mercer & Artest and (allegedly) Payton.
It was one deal or the other, not both.
Anyways I'm still waiting for an explanation about how the lineup of Payton, Duncan, Larry Kenon, Jaren Jackson, and Mark Bryant was going to get past the Lakers in the 2002 playoffs.
Read your own damn question again.Read again. Winning a championship this past season was not part of the Holting Pattern plan. The idea was to suplant David Robinson, who has retired, with either another superstar, or very solid center to replace him.
I wasn't insisting , Capser.
Don't be a . We argued the Payton/Parker trade based on talent and youth, not cap space.
I never said cap space was the holy grail.
I was all for trading Smitty for Rahim if that was ever true (it wasn't).
Get right or **** off.
?
its funny because the last time i checked... the reason we let tony parker start at 19 was because we didn't want to trade or acquire guys who would take up long term contracts when duncan was in his final years...
the last time i checked, smitty's contract coming off the books was the only logical reason we didn't trade for mercer and artest... two guys who wouldn't have fit in with manu or let him develop and play as much as he did last year.
those two guys were a big part of winning a championship last season... during this holting pattern...
i could say that not signing a max free agent was a part of the holting pattern... would it matter?
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