Lonnie Walker is Overrated Offball Guard

[John B]

He hit some timely 3’s and drove in a couple of times. But this kid has more. He needs to punish his defender with his quick 1st step. It’s not his fault he was guarding Tatum, but his onball defense has not been the best in general. He needs to fight those screens better. He’s always caught with a ticky tac foul, worst and1’s. I think DW getting back to starting would benefit Lonnie going against 2nd units and having more touches, and get his confidence back.

[Sugus]

This is the most ironic part. Pop is basically being proven right for not playing Lonnie much last year. He probably saw all the beta/ softness issues Lonnie is showing in full display right now and it was a method of trying to instill toughness in him. Sorry, my guy Sugus, I don't think saying Pop 'broke' him has any credibility. At some point, the player has to take some accountability.

Hey, my guy, sorry for a late reply - was on a week-long trip. Didn't catch these last what, 3-4? games of the Spurs, what'd I miss?

Regarding the mention; I don't think Pop is being "proven right" at all, tbh. I haven't much liked his coaching this season, and rotations and role are a good part of it. Lonnie is starting, yet is (I'll make the safe assumption that little has changed in the last week of Spurs ball) not really regarded as an offensive piece to run plays for at all, and has to "get his shot" by driving or CnS most if not every time (since transition points aren't really much of a thing with these Spurs). He's absolutely to blame in part for not looking for his shots and finishing his own opportunities often enough (though I don't think you can say there's no coaching component in the change of ballgame that Lonnie displayed coming into the NBA, and the one he displays now; would you see the same player if you watched his college mixtape and his last game's performance back-to-back?) (Honest question, tbh, I haven't seen the game, maybe he had a good one and shuts me up ).

Has Lonnie let me down? Yes, absolutely, I had much higher hopes for him coming into the season; I definitely agree with B1gduff (that's a name I hadn't heard, what's up fella?) though, that people are barking at Lonnie the same way they barked at DJ through his growing pains. The sheer amount of times I've read "IG baller" or some permutation of it on this site, would lend you to believe there'd be dozens of apology threads on him alone, tbh. But no such thing, only posters who're always right.

Anyways - I'd rather Lonnie be out there, playing heavy minutes (and closing games, if Pop doesn't mind, thankyouverymuch), learning and growing while finding his game, than spotted in the bench like Samanic and given the "watch and learn" treatment. In fact, I'm eager to listen: which players exactly had toughness "instilled" into them by being benched excessively when needed by their team, even after a career game, the season after being forced to play in a lower level league than your draftee peers are playing in. I can't seem to think of any, and can't see why it'd be a good coaching strategy for a person like Lonnie, who clearly isn't made of rock and takes things to heart. Matter-of-factly, this "method" of last season definitely hasn't helped his play this season - aren't you making my point?

By the by, I don't at all adhere to the alpha/beta dynamics and whatnot, they're closer to bro-science than they are to legit psychological phenomena, at least the way they're mentioned and talked about on here most times. I don't think Pop would call Lonnie a "beta" at all, and to be frank I doubt anyone would if they knew where he came from and had to fight through to get to the NBA alone but that's beside the point. I think he's got a lot to work on, and I was expecting him to capitalize on opportunities that he hasn't yet (and maybe never will). It doesn't mean I've lost hope on him, or close to it, yet though, that's for Certified SpursTalk Cliffjumpers to go about.

[rankingtear]

Lonnie is getting other looks aside from spot ups, he's second on possesions as a transition ballhandler and has some pick and roll possesions. Granted his pick and roll possesions are significantly lower then the others but Sean pointed it the last game that he does not know how to come off the screen yet that is why he is the worst player in efficiency on the team. Spotups are the only thing he is above average in.

Spotups and running the break are two of his roles right now.

Pop is not running as much set plays anymore because of the system, post ups , handoff, cuts and off screen are reduced significantly.

[Sugus]

Lonnie is getting other looks aside from spot ups, he's second on possesions as a transition ballhandler and has some pick and roll possesions. Granted his pick and roll possesions are significantly lower then the others but Sean pointed it the last game that he does not know how to come off the screen yet that is why he is the worst player in efficiency on the team. Spotups are the only thing he is above average in.

Spotups and running the break are two of his roles right now.

Pop is not running as much set plays anymore because of the system, post ups , handoff, cuts and off screen are reduced significantly.

Got a source for these kinds of stats? I've always been interested but can only look as far as advanced statistics, I've no idea where to get per-possession stats.

I agree with a lot of what you write... And it ties into how I don't like the way Pop has coached Lonnie, and the team in general, these last couple seasons. It's always hilarious to me getting called a sniffer here, when I've always been critical of Pop and his (current) lackadaisical approach to the team's structure. Matter-of-factly, the thing I want for Lonnie to have is much more offensive structure; most of the time, especially this season, he just looks lost, not (only) like he doesn't understand where he's got to be on the court, but in that he doesn't understand what he's supposed to do. Pop & Co have been trying to develop him into a playmaker, and I think it's too far gone to that side now, to the point that Lonnie will refuse open shots at all 3 levels if there's even a sliver of a passing lane available (most times, he creates these passing opportunities out of his sheer athletic talent, which is even more frustrating knowing what he could do). It's come to the point that I ironically think he should get benched, if only just so he's playing with "lower" players in the hierarchical totem pole, and starts finishing plays with scores instead of passes.

It's exactly what I was telling my guy Dejounte. Lonnie came into the league with a scoring profile, that's always been his bread and butter, he was supposed to be really good at finishing at the rim, in the midrange, etc. due to his tools. I look at Lonnie this season, and hardly see that same player... At this point, I can only hope he's struggling since he's forcefully developing a new aspect of his game, and it'll be a matter of "tying it all together" like it's (kind of) worked for DJ and his playmaking. But it's a head-scratcher for sure.

Moreover, I can't understand how you can have Lonnie not learn how to run off-ball and come off screens for three straight NBA seasons, especially when you're literally trying to use him as an off-ball 3&D player. How does this not get addressed in film room sessions time and time again? I find myself asking this almost every game now...

[Sugus]

, just look at this scouting report, first one I got through googling:

… Is able to contort around defenders to finish and draw contact … Accepts contact and is physical enough that it’s difficult to bump him off his cuts … Aggressively looks to score both in half court sets as well as in transition … … Is unafraid of the big moment and will look to create offense when his team needs it most …

Doesn't sound much like 2021 Lonnie, tbh. Video scouting reports are the same thing. Sadly, it's looking like some weaknesses on his draftee profile were spot-on, and might cap his ceiling. I still think he can be the best out of the youngsters (with Mustang Keldon inching closer by the day), but it'll definitely require a serious off-season of working and re-working his game, his weaknesses, his approach. We'll see, either way, way too soon to call for him to be traded (not like it's ever stopped ST though ).

[TheGreatYacht]

this thread for disrespecting Jordan Clarkson 2.0

It’s all mental for him and having a coach that treats you like the step son certainly hasn’t helped him. His first two seasons were stripped from him because Pop preferred Marco and Forbes. This year he’s been getting screamed at worse than even Parker ever had to deal with every time he makes a mistake. With more confidence he’s gonna be a Clarkson caliber player. Hope he gets a second contract here or I fear we might regret it.

Edit:

Imagine Pop ever saying like this about one of his pets in Mills, Forbes, Marco, Bonner, etc.. I cant even picture it in my head. Who wouldn’t play timid here as a 20-21yr old if Pop had it out for you and couldn’t wait to pull you the minute you made a mistake. Pop sung his praises today (obviously - he had no choice after a perfect game) and I hope he’s not back to his BS next game.

[rankingtear]

He has to be the irrational confidence guy but he is a fragile confidence one.

[ceperez]

this thread for disrespecting Jordan Clarkson 2.0

It’s all mental for him and having a coach that treats you like the step son certainly hasn’t helped him. His first two seasons were stripped from him because Pop preferred Marco and Forbes. This year he’s been getting screamed at worse than even Parker ever had to deal with every time he makes a mistake. With more confidence he’s gonna be a Clarkson caliber player. Hope he gets a second contract here or I fear we might regret it.

Edit:

Imagine Pop ever saying like this about one of his pets in Mills, Forbes, Marco, Bonner, etc.. I cant even picture it in my head. Who wouldn’t play timid here as a 20-21yr old if Pop had it out for you and couldn’t wait to pull you the minute you made a mistake. Pop sung his praises today (obviously - he had no choice after a perfect game) and I hope he’s not back to his BS next game.

I just going to have to go back to Donovan Mitc 's comments about Lonnie Walker when he was a rookie. The guy has a killer instinct.

Walker is going to get really good. Right now, he's just learning to play within the system. But when he knows that he's the guy responsible for the offense, he's going to produce.

Future is bright!

[buttsR4rebounding]

The future will not be fulfilled until Pop moves on. The game has passed him by, but unfortunately he has never “got over himself “ enough to even contemplate that.

[RC_Drunkford]

Lonnie is improving as the season progresses. His finishing at the rim has gotten better a lot and he's looking for his midrange more as well. I always said he has the potential to be the main scorer on the team and he might overtake White in the rotation.

[Mr. Body]

The future will not be fulfilled until Pop moves on. The game has passed him by, but unfortunately he has never “got over himself “ enough to even contemplate that.

I was coming in to say how Lonnie's ceiling is really high and he just needs to get there and then I see this crap.

[Mr. Body]

I just going to have to go back to Donovan Mitc 's comments about Lonnie Walker when he was a rookie. The guy has a killer instinct.

Walker is going to get really good. Right now, he's just learning to play within the system. But when he knows that he's the guy responsible for the offense, he's going to produce.

Future is bright!

He's getting there. He's both insanely athletic and has great scoring mechanics. He just needs that Neo in the Matrix moment: "He's starting to believe." Honestly he can totally teams up all by himself, just needs to grow into it.

[PrimeMinister]

Extend Lonnie before next season starts and he breaks out

[BillMc]

He's getting there. He's both insanely athletic and has great scoring mechanics. He just needs that Neo in the Matrix moment: "He's starting to believe." Honestly he can totally teams up all by himself, just needs to grow into it.

I agree completely. And consistancy will come. But need more on defense or his ceiling is....Toronto DeMar with a three point shot? (Which is obviously pretty good.)

[Truth4sale$]

For 2 years, Lonnie has waited. Injuries and Gleague in year 1, then sitting behind Popovich favorite Forbes and Belinelli in year 2, now he has to come off the bench for Derrick White. Lonnie is gaining confidence and improving , lookout for a breakout next year!

[Degoat]

I think it’s time for Lonnie to be given the reigns to the bench squad, none of this Patty or Rudy stuff. I still have doubts Lonnie will be a good two way player but I think he could be a great offensive weapon to have

[Dejounte]

I think it’s time for Lonnie to be given the reigns to the bench squad, none of this Patty or Rudy stuff. I still have doubts Lonnie will be a good two way player but I think he could be a great offensive weapon to have

I have a good feeling it will happen next year. If there's anything positive about Lonnie's overly unselfish personality, it's that he should be willing to do anything for the team, which means he'll be accepting of a high end bench role (if not a starting one).

[The Truth #6]

Random thought:

Great to see Lonnie finishing better around the basket. Regardless, it seems like he would really benefit from adding a Parker-esque teardrop to his game. He gets into the teeth effortlessly but either passes out or (historically) avoids contact for a difficult finish. A teardrop floater could be a great addition.

[exstatic]

He has to be the irrational confidence guy but he is a fragile confidence one.

This.

[RC_Drunkford]

Random thought:

Great to see Lonnie finishing better around the basket. Regardless, it seems like he would really benefit from adding a Parker-esque teardrop to his game. He gets into the teeth effortlessly but either passes out or (historically) avoids contact for a difficult finish. A teardrop floater could be a great addition.

these are things he will add with time I think, he's gotten better finishing with his left which was his main problem

[TheChillFactor]

These threads are hilarious.

Its 10% discussion of Lonnie Walker and 90% you jerkoffs yelling at each other trying to prove you're smarter than the other idiots. Or you have some sort of innate ability to assess a player's "toughness" or "potential".

"I've been defending him for years" or "I always knew he sucked".

JFC go play with yourself, its more productive.

[rankingtear]

^ Defense sucks.

Lonnie vs Bryn ( 19-20 )

5.7 vs 9.4 percentile guarding isolations
26 vs 28.8 percentile guarding pick and roll
14 vs 10 percentile guarding spot ups

[John B]

^ Defense sucks.

Lonnie vs Bryn ( 19-20 )

5.7 vs 9.4 percentile guarding isolations
26 vs 28.8 percentile guarding pick and roll
14 vs 10 percentile guarding spot ups

This. His confidence in scoring is commendable, but he still has way to go in being a defensive stopper that he is very capable of with his freakish athleticism. Keep up the hard work Lonnie!

[Seventyniner]

This. His confidence in scoring is commendable, but he still has way to go in being a defensive stopper that he is very capable of with his freakish athleticism. Keep up the hard work Lonnie!

Forbes's physical limitations put a low ceiling on his defensive potential. Lonnie has athleticism for days and enough height so his defensive ceiling is much higher.

[Truckules]

Random thought:

Great to see Lonnie finishing better around the basket. Regardless, it seems like he would really benefit from adding a Parker-esque teardrop to his game. He gets into the teeth effortlessly but either passes out or (historically) avoids contact for a difficult finish. A teardrop floater could be a great addition.

He needs to try to finish through contact and/or draw fouls. He shoots the second fewest free throws per 100 on the team. If he could improve his free throw rate to average, he could score on the same level that Demar does.