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i think the spurs will be better in the second half of the season.
the bad thing about that is it means a lower draft pick.
For the Future to look good we need the following to happen:
1. Get a top 4 draft pick in 2022 and top 4 in 2023 - Yes both years
2. Hope Murray handles and 3 point shooting gets better - Or make a decision to draft a PG
3. Trade White -We got Murray, Tre, and Primo - and I mean trade him for a player of need
4. Let Walker Walk after this off season
5. Hope Keldon gets better at 3 point shooting and FT.
6. Let Pop walk either in 2022 or 2023 but he can't stay pass 2023
7. Hire a YOUNG LEGIT COACH that can help us recruit and retain players
i think the spurs will be better in the second half of the season.
the bad thing about that is it means a lower draft pick.
Memphis has two absolute studs and they're still mediocre.
It is that obvious, and it was deliberate. The whole idea behind "letting the young guys take the reins" means exactly to let them sink or swim. They're sinking right now, and might sink further into a top pick, which is still within the plan.
Why wouldn't you think it's deliberate, or at least within the realm of planned possibilities, given they literally let go of their star player and build-around-guy for the past 3 years, and their top 2 veteran players & lockerroom presences, all in the same off-season, whilst signing absolutely no one of relevance (or winning prowess, really) with the remaining money to replace them? If the Spurs actually had wanted to compete, they'd've had a completely opposite off-season: would've packaged some of their young players, plus mortgage their future picks, in search of star (or quasi-stars, given this is SanAn after all) power. Or did you really think they thought a 25yo, unproven Murray would spearlead the group back into the playoffs, after him alongside DeRozan couldn't get it done?
1. I didn’t mean literally a draft and stash.. I’m very aware who is and isn’t on the roster and the $$$ owed to each player (even if they aren’t on the team anymore). I’ll edit it so it’s more clear.
As to how much Primo is different than years past… I mean Vassell was last year. Go look and see just how wrong you are.
2. Wasn’t arguing any point for McDermott. Just laying out what I see as 1-2 year “tank”. You seem weirdly defensive about that part. Not sure why. Anyway…
3. As much as it annoys this forum, and myself, Forbes is absolutely a fan favorite. I watch every game and go to a few each year. He has a lot of fans and was clearly a replacement for Mills. Casual fans go nuts for his 3 point shooting. The guy has wayyy too many jerseys out there for anyone not to see how much people like him.
4. Obviously I agree that we’ve seen some interesting rotations with Pop but you can’t deny it is different this year.
5. Like I mentioned this year is the tank year but I see this as a short term tank. At the end of the day you have a 8-9 man rotation so you replace your tanking players (Forbes, Eubanks, etc.) with Primo and your new top pick.
Lastly, I’m also aware of how it works for the minimum team salary, but just like the first point, it’s just the verbiage you have an issue with. Maybe there’s a better word for it but to me they are forced to pay $$ when they don’t exceed a certain dollar amount and I see that as a fine.
I agree with sink or swim; we all see and know that and it is assuredly the correct strategy. Everything else that guy wrote is a joke. Yes we cleared house to respectfully rebuild… no ! I have been preaching from day one this is a 20 win team and i’m enjoying every minute of it. Despite my agreement, I’m arguing what this joker wrote is ludacris. Primo wasn’t drafted to be unveiled as the saviour with our next lotto pick, Forbes never was a fan favourite and i’ve already forgotten the rest of the bs he listed.
Nice rebuttal!
You should also understand Rudy, DDR, Mills and LMA all wanted to go other routes. We didn’t let them go.
Ok.
As to how much Primo is different than years past… I mean Vassell was last year. Go look and see just how wrong you are.
Vassell, eh? Last year, eh? Tell you what. Go look at the G League last year and see what a fool you are.
Liar. I remind you of what you wrote:2. Wasn’t arguing any point for McDermott. …
“2. sign a quality role player - McDermott”
That is an exact quote from you. See that name there? You don’t seem “weirdly defensive” about it, you seem outright dishonest about it.
On the logic of your contention:
Given, the Spurs needed 3pt shooting. Everybody who follows the team knows that.
Fact, they sign a 3pt shooter.
Therefore, they are tanking.
You claim. Not your best effort. An attempt to correct a deficiency is not a sign of tanking.
Pointing to a player who is not a 3pt shooter would have been more in keeping with your argument. Like Thad Young.
You are making me continue to wonder if you drink. At the risk of repeating myself,3. As much as it annoys this forum, and myself, Forbes is absolutely a fan favorite. …
Given, the Spurs needed 3pt shooting. Everybody who follows the team knows that.
Fact, they sign a 3pt shooter.
Therefore, they are tanking. You claim.
Forbes is a 3pt shooter. When a team that needs 3pt shooting signs a 3pt shooter, that is not an indication of tanking. It indicates an attempt at improvement.
It isn’t different just because you imagine it’s different.4. Obviously I agree that we’ve seen some interesting rotations with Pop but you can’t deny it is different this year.
No, it isn’t. It’s another lousy year because of a poorly-constructed roster, questionable coaching, etc., the same as we’ve seen in the two previous (losing) seasons. If you insist this must be a tank, we’re now in the third season of it.5. Like I mentioned this year is the tank year …
But it isn’t a tank it’s just the same old rubbish, from a franchise management that has lost its way when it comes to assembling and fielding a good team. And it isn’t going to be fixed with only a high draft pick or two.
Sure, after I told you.Lastly, I’m also aware of how it works for the minimum team salary, …
Liar? You can’t say what someone is thinking. Plus you’re wrong.
I don’t post often but almost every post I’ve made over the last few months is how the spurs lack 3 point shooting. I even pointed out that McDermott and Forbes wouldn’t fix it… and they didn’t.
On the note of McDermott and the rotations I’ll kill two bird with one stone. McDermott is a bench player. I bet he doesn’t start next year. Let’s see who is right.
On Vassell you are incredibly wrong. Basic math time!!!
Vassell played in 62 games, started in 7 of them, and played 1,056 minutes. We are 15 game in so that’s 67 games left. Primo has played only 9 minutes. So 1,056-9 = 1,047. 1,047/67 = 15.6. 15.6 minutes a game starting TODAY. You honestly think Primo is going to get there??
And lastly. No not because you told me. Because I already knew and have known for years. It’s just amazing how wrong you are. Wrong on assuming what I know and don’t know, wrong on Primo, wrong on the differences of this year vs prior years… let’s just wait and see who ends up being right ok?
I’m right about what you wrote. If you’re not expressing your thoughts, that’s on you.
Why don’t you simply admit you offered a bad argument? These things happen. Life goes on.
When a team that needs 3pt shooting signs 3pt shooters, it is not a sign that they’re tanking. It’s a sign they’re trying to improve.
Whether they do improve is a different issue. The offense and coaching, and the capabilities of the other players, make all the difference in utilizing those 3pt shooters. It’s a team sport.
Could Pop have sent Vassell to the G league in November of last year?On Vassell you are incredibly wrong. …
That’s fine.And lastly. No not because you told me. Because I already knew and have known for years. …
The Spurs aren’t tanking, they’re just weak. Still.
It all boils down to a difference in opinion on tanking and the fact that you didn’t like the way I typed it out.
So let’s agree to disagree. We’ll see if Primo plays 1,000 minutes this year & if McDermott starts next year
Hopefully White, Walker and Forbes are mot here next year such that Primo is forced to play a regular role.
I see Forbes as a filer until Primo enters the rotation next year.
Walker is being given a shot to show if he can even be in the rotation and he is blowing it. Luckily the Spurs have $$$ going into the off-season so he will be replaceable.
As for White, while I wouldn’t blame the Spurs for trading him. It is my opinion he will be moved to the bench next year in favor of Vassell. He should’ve already but again, in my opinion, we’re not trying to win games here.
We need a franchise player to build around. I believe we will have that next year or the year after if needed.
Last edited by FutureMan; 11-22-2021 at 05:15 PM.
I agree with this. I still think D White has some value league wide, for me I just think he is a likely candidate to move in a potential package with Thad and Walker. We have a possible top 5 pick imminent where I think we draft the best player available. Time to start extracting value from
some of this backlog of decent tweeners.
Lying about what I posted isn’t helping you.
Answer the question about sending Vassell to the G league last year. Double dog dare you.So let’s agree to disagree. We’ll see if Primo plays 1,000 minutes this year & if McDermott starts next year
McDermott is a 3pt shooter. The Spurs need 3pt shooting, so they sign a 3pt shooter, and you claim that means they’re tanking. C’mon now.
Lying about how we have a difference of opinion on if the team is tanking on purpose or not?? Now I’m confused �� Is that not what you are arguing? Are we both saying the same thing and don’t even realize it???
I looked up the Gleague and it wasn’t even around in November which makes your remarks even more strange to me. I also care very very little for the G-League so not sure what exactly happened there. You implied Primo will be treated the same as Vassell and I disagreed. But hey, there’s still time for Primo to play those 1,047 minutes.
On a semi related note, it clicked the night of the draft for me. I was confused like many others about Primo getting picked but then an analyst said something to the effect of “Primo is a player that, if he would’ve chosen to sit out this years draft, would’ve been a lottery pick in the 2022-23 draft”. I was sold. Two rotation lottery level players at the same time for the 2022-23 season.
Going back to your post and I guess McDermott… again…. I never said that McDermott is a sign of a tanking team. This goes back to the fact that you didn’t like the way I typed it out initially. BUT starting him is, IMO, a way to lose games though (as is Bates-Diop from tonight). McDermott is a quality bench playoff level player and I anticipate him being so next year.
We communicate very differently. I get it. It’s an online forum. If you have any other questions or need me to be more clear about a particular part of a post. Just ask.
It kinda feels like Pop is having open try outs for the team. A couple of things here, if you are planning to have DJ as your best player then you better surround him with shooters. KJ and White are doing him no favors. You can’t start Primo bc Pop won’t even let him play a minute nvm starting him but he fills that void. Switch White with Primo and KJ with Vassell.
Bring KJ, Lonnie, White off the bench. But we need 3point shooting and we need it badly.
I’m not even sure how to fix this mess of a roster tbh. Let Lonnie walk is the first step. Cut Forbes is the next. Bring up Primo as our back up SG with Tre as the PG. I would trade Murray but only for the right package. I still don’t like Jak as our starting Center. The dude just clogs up driving lanes and has no clue how to run a fast break which irks me. There were 3 plays last night where if Jak would’ve just hustled a bit and gotten in the way of Murray’s man while Murray was bringing the ball up then Murray had wide open lay ups. Ayton was gassed for some reason and at like the other foul line and Jak just showed no energy and hustle to get it done. I’m not even sure it passed his mind to do that. He did t have to set a screen just run up the floor and be a big log in people’s way. It’s things like this I notice about him. I love him as a bench big.
But the problem is that we still have no direction. The only position we are set at is Vassell as our starting 3 going forward. How do you fix a roster when that’s literally all that’s set?
it's obvious the spurs need a big and shooting so one goes from there: get rid of what you cannot develop and then draft players or sign FAs that address those needs.
Nope. It isn’t merely opinion that the Spurs need 3pt shooting, and that McDermott & Forbes are 3pt shooters. Those are objective facts. For verification, see the stats gathered by independent observers.
But you know this. You know those facts.
We are not talking about “opinion” here.
You started this. One of your points, in your original post, specifically cited McDermott. You listed the signing of McDermott as evidence of tanking.
But what that amounts to, is you trying to claim that when a team that needs 3pt shooting signs a 3pt shooter, it indicates they’re tanking. Which is rubbish.
Look, all I’ve been trying to tell you is that your tanking argument, as you offered it, is garbage. Simply that.
You offered Vassell, last year, as a comparison to Primo being sent to the G league this year.I looked up the Gleague and it wasn’t even around in November …
But could Vassell, last year, have been sent down to the G league? No.
It wasn’t physically possible for Pop to send a rookie Vassell to the G league. Like he did with Primo this year.
That is the point. Your comparison was not valid.
I am merely telling you exactly that. It was not a valid comparison. Which means it is not valid as any evidence of tanking.
No, I was only trying to tell you what I’m still trying to tell you now.…You implied Primo will be treated the same as Vassell and I disagreed.
You did. You cited him by name in your “tanking” checklist.Going back to your post and I guess McDermott… again…. I never said that McDermott is a sign of a tanking team. …
This is not about the way you type. It’s about your tanking argument being garbage.This goes back to the fact that you didn’t like the way I typed it out initially. …
Geez. You’re now trying to claim that when a team that needs 3pt shooting has a 3pt shooter as a starter it means they’re tanking.BUT starting him is, IMO, a way to lose games though …
Yeah. I make sense and you don’t.We communicate very differently. …
You want a tanking argument? Some evidence that does imply tanking this year? Follow along.
Look at the DDR s&t.
What did the Spurs give up in that trade? They gave up their top scorer (21.6 ppg last season) and top assist man (6.9 apg.) Since it’s a business, we could also look at the $27.7M of salary they previously paid DDR.
What did the Spurs get back in that trade, in terms of on-court performance this year? And salary?
Hutchison, cut, worthless, at a cost of $4M.
Aminu, cut, worthless, at a cost of $10M.
A future 1st round pick, which is worthless for this season’s production.
Young, 7.8 ppg and 3.2 apg currently, at a cost of $14M.
The net, -13.8 ppg and -3.7 apg, at a cost which is essentially the same. In fact, a slightly higher cost.
Now THAT looks like tanking. Paying a little more for a whole lot less, and getting no players who address a serious team need. That trade was a tanker’s dream come true.
Also, having a part-time backup center who’s paid substantially more than the starting center is certain to damage team morale. Thus leading to more losses.
1. Throw away a big pile of money.
2. Make the team worse.
3. Damage team morale.
Tanker heaven.
But there’s an alternative theory, that it isn’t tanking, it’s only the Spurs management being the stupidest clucks in the NBA. Could be.
Greggs witty "Coco Puffs" comments should have us all feeling the Spurs are in good hands.
Let's hope he stays forever.
Spurs news: Gregg Popovich hilarious response on firing up young players (clutchpoints.com)
Now I see the issue. My first post wasn’t a guide to tanking. It was what I saw as the plan to do a quick tank and then be able to immediately compete again. McDermott was FA 1 of 2. One for each year to add to a playoff rotation level team.
Again, I’ll say it again since you don’t understand my posts well. The initial post was a combination of tanking and preparing for the following season.
Besides Primo, who I see as an outlier for his age and my tanking belief, the Spurs don’t send lottery level players or lottery level talent (Leonard-pick 15) to the GLeague.
You can add that DeRozan trade onto my list as well. Prepare for the future, lose this year. We’ll see what they do with Young.
We just disagree about many many things. I see the DeRozan trade as a good one and possibly a very good one, sounds like you don’t. It is unknown how good the trade will be until draft picks get selected. Also it’s beyond weird for any player to focus on a traded expiring players contract who will likely be traded. So that shows me where you stand mentally there along with your comment about the Spurs organization.
Going back to McDermott, you’ve gotta know the difference between starting a player vs having them come off the bench. Right? Maybe that’s a core reason why you don’t see what I’m seeing. Idk. After your last post I’m not confident in your ability to break down this team so I think we’re done here. Like I said earlier, let’s just agree to disagree and move on.
Everyone could see the Spurs are putting all of their eggs into the 2023 summer. Primo wasn't drafted to add wins this year. In fact, adding wins this year gets us a worse draft pick to join next summer. None of the Spurs moves this past summer were done to add wins this year. They added assets that they could try to flip (Young), flyers on young players (Collins, Landale, Cacok - none of whom are guaranteed past summer 2023), and a single FA with money owed past summer 2023 (McDermott). Right now, they are in the rebuild/tanking stage of "throw everything on the wall to see if it sticks". Sadly, that also means that players who are eligible for GLeague should get their minutes there so PATFO has enough minutes to evaluate everybody else. There is no need to rush Primo into the main squad. He is young enough that he'll be entering his prime after 10 years of NBA experience.
Next summer, I expect a more refined role/rotation for everybody... adding Primo and '22 Draft pick (showcasing the team, going for wins, and developing the winning mentality before '23 free agency).
Summer '23, I expect them to fill any gaps in FA with a ton of available space ($70mil+).
You don’t see anything. Or you don’t want to.
I didn’t offer anything at all about your post being a “guide to tanking.” Stop misrepresenting what I post to you.
It was your argument that the Spurs are tanking this year. Trouble is, your argument was garbage. It proved no such thing.It was what I saw as the plan to do a quick tank and then be able to immediately compete again. …
But you want to be in your own fantasy world and pretend that you proved something. However, when you make a post for others to read, you leave your personal space, and you enter the realm of public discussion. And you risk criticism. You risk rebuttal.
That is called reality.
“Belief” is fine. Nothing about your beliefs is at issue here.Besides Primo, who I see as an outlier for his age and my tanking belief, …
But it is not too much to ask that you face facts honestly, when you engage in public discussion.
Well you could at least say “thank you,” you rude, ty little nitwit.You can add that DeRozan trade onto my list as well. …
How old are you? Your screen name means you’ll be a man at some time in the future, is that it? You are not much like a man now.
What we disagree about is, specifically, the argument you offered. Lying about that doesn’t help you.We just disagree about many many things. …
For this season? Which is what we’re talking about.I see the DeRozan trade as a good one …
The reason you can’t see what others do is because you retreat to your own little fantasy world, where things like facts and logic don’t intrude.Going back to McDermott, you’ve gotta know the difference between starting a player vs having them come off the bench. Right? Maybe that’s a core reason why you don’t see what I’m seeing. …
Little boy, when a team that needs 3pt shooting signs a 3pt shooter, that is not a sign that they’re tanking.
Except maybe in your own little fantasy world where only you live.
There you go again assuming things. This time by a persons username? Then you try to follow up with name calling. Now that’s a way to help your point.
We disagree as to what the team is doing and a number of other things. Be mature about it and move on. I won’t convince you and you won’t convince me. All we can do is hope for the best for the Spurs and see what happens.
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