spurs have the worst future in their division

[ambchang]

Won't keep this going further other than to repeat, this is far from just a single player like Batum heaping praise on him.

Quick google search: Match these players that like his game with these quotes: Edwards, Gobert, or Giannis?

“He has been getting better and better, I think he is very unique in the way that he plays. The way that he is finishing. Last year he was turning the ball over more, but this year he has gotten a lot better.”

He’s a good player. He takes his time; nothing can speed him up. He might be slow in the post, but he’s effective. He’s playing well. He’s playing a lot of minutes off the bench and gives energy to his teammates. He rebounds the ball well. He’s being aggressive and sets good screens. I think the sky’s the limit for him.

“Me personally, I think they need to build around No. 28 (Sengun), “Jalen (Green) and KPJ (Kevin Porter Jr.) are franchise players also, but that dude is something serious. We had to game plan for him.”

Spurs ed up. Hadn't business reaching for Primo when this guy's game was right before their eyes. They had him in for a tryout too.

Answer: Top quote: Gobert; Middle quote: Giannis; Last quote: Edwards

Yes spurs screwed up and I already said it, so thanks for writing an essay saying I was wrong by saying that primo screwed up. My point was always some dude saying sengun is baby jokic as some proof he’s good is stupid.

[Ariel]

FO doesn’t deserve credit when they got it. It deserves blame when they messed. Got it. Very irrefutable logic. Do you hire? I’d like to work for you.

Sorry, not hiring people with such poor reading comprehension skills.

My point isn't that the FO doesn't deserve recognition in the picks you mention, because THEY DO as they pulled the trigger where others didn't and that's the important thing

But I'm sure you'll be fine as a Walmart door greeter.

[ambchang]

Sorry, not hiring people with such poor reading comprehension skills.

But I'm sure you'll be fine as a Walmart door greeter.

Do you have mock drafts for sengun? Did the rockets deserve credit for that one?m
And poor comprehension skills. Read your own post? Where did under the radar come from? Keep inventing arguments to win and make yourself feel good. Strawman boss.

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Yes spurs screwed up and I already said it, so thanks for writing an essay saying I was wrong by saying that primo screwed up. My point was always some dude saying sengun is baby jokic as some proof he’s good is stupid.

Wasn't an essay. Those were quotes. From like a 2 time MVP saying the kid has potential "sky is the limit" game.

Why must you continually boil it down to Batum as though he's the only one high on him? And I acknowledged that he's not now nor may he ever be Jokic. But the idea that he's giving people that vibe at age 20 ought to be the thing you take from it not that he isn't.

[ambchang]

Wasn't an essay. Those were quotes. From like a 2 time MVP saying the kid has potential "sky is the limit" game.

Why must you continually boil it down to Batum as though he's the only one high on him? And I acknowledged that he's not now nor may he ever be Jokic. But the idea that he's giving people that vibe at age 20 ought to be the thing you take from it not that he isn't.

Because you said someone said he’s baby jokic and I pointed out someone pointed to minor as baby jordan. That’s it.

[exstatic]

So he likely wouldn’t have effected the tank as a 19 year old. But at 23 he’s going to be an annual all star along with Haliburton.

No he won’t. He’s actually awful on defense, like turnstile bad, and that will always limit him to playing reduced minutes on a good team. You can only play full time as an undersized center if you’re like Bam Adubayo long and athletic. He’s neither. It’s the main reason he dropped out of the lottery.

[Sugus]

Wasn't an essay. Those were quotes. From like a 2 time MVP saying the kid has potential "sky is the limit" game.

Why must you continually boil it down to Batum as though he's the only one high on him? And I acknowledged that he's not now nor may he ever be Jokic. But the idea that he's giving people that vibe at age 20 ought to be the thing you take from it not that he isn't.

You keep (purposefully?) missing ambchang's point, to a illating degree, lol. He's completely right.

NBA players, no matter their calibre, are extremely bad judges of their peer's talent and future, and even worse, have a vested interest in not saying exactly what's on their minds, but what's politically correct, because they're damn well aware that everything's a soundbite/quote nowadays. But even assuming they're all being 100% honest, they're still talent evaluators (every single player that's tried to use their weight to "GM" their team, has failed miserably, latest example with LeGM and the Westbrook trade). There's a reason there's an actual GM, POBO, and other execs in charge of team management, and they don't just consult the players, even though they play against each other constantly and "should know best".

Don't believe me? The historical evidence is terribly stacked against you. Go look up any players' quotes and opinions on, say, rookie/sop re Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Evan Turner. Andrew Wiggins. Andre Drummond. Etc etc etc. All praise, all future potential -- all jack . Players know nothing, that's why they're paid to score the ball, not judge their peers.

Lastly, I have nothing against Sengun, and he was my pick on that draft by a mile ( Dejounte (how are you, dude?!) can back me up on this for sure). I'd say the same thing about any other random 20 year old getting "baby X" and "future perennial All-Star" nods, tbh. They most often amount to nothing at all, especially coming from players, as opposed to coaches for example, who have the far better eye for these things.

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You keep (purposefully?) missing ambchang's point, to a illating degree, lol. He's completely right.

NBA players, no matter their calibre, are extremely bad judges of their peer's talent and future, and even worse, have a vested interest in not saying exactly what's on their minds, but what's politically correct, because they're damn well aware that everything's a soundbite/quote nowadays. But even assuming they're all being 100% honest, they're still talent evaluators (every single player that's tried to use their weight to "GM" their team, has failed miserably, latest example with LeGM and the Westbrook trade). There's a reason there's an actual GM, POBO, and other execs in charge of team management, and they don't just consult the players, even though they play against each other constantly and "should know best".

Don't believe me? The historical evidence is terribly stacked against you. Go look up any players' quotes and opinions on, say, rookie/sop re Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Evan Turner. Andrew Wiggins. Andre Drummond. Etc etc etc. All praise, all future potential -- all jack . Players know nothing, that's why they're paid to score the ball, not judge their peers.

Lastly, I have nothing against Sengun, and he was my pick on that draft by a mile ( Dejounte (how are you, dude?!) can back me up on this for sure). I'd say the same thing about any other random 20 year old getting "baby X" and "future perennial All-Star" nods, tbh. They most often amount to nothing at all, especially coming from players, as opposed to coaches for example, who have the far better eye for these things.

No. I've missed nothing. I'm using quotes from 4 guys about him. Not just 1. And hey if it's illating to you, I'm happy to keep this line of debate going with you.

For starters:

LeBron is universally known to be a GM. Often wanting to team up with friends and aging talent. Doesn't understand caps, trades, etc.

And Wiggins and Drummond are all-star level players, lol. , I think MKG made an all-star team once. Certainly above the average NBA player. But I'm not here touting them or harping on the fact we missed out on them in a draft we passed over them on for a player like Primo.

And who here or in the NBA exactly has the ability to better judge their peers talent than other NBA players. It's why they are paid the big bucks to analyze their games (see Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.....)

Look, this is ultimately about missing on a player. And on that point we all seem to agree. So I'm content to leave this be, unless you want more illation?

[Dejounte]

No. I've missed nothing. I'm using quotes from 4 guys about him. Not just 1. And hey I'd it's illating to you, I'm happy to keep this going with you.

For starters:

LeBron is universally known to be a GM. Often wanting to team up with friends and aging talent.

And Wiggins and Drummond are all-star level players, lol. , I think MKG made an all-star team once.

And who here or in the NBA exactly has the ability to better judge their peers talent than other NBA players. It's why they are paid the big bucks to analyze their games (see Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.....)

Look, this is ultimately about missing on a player. And on that point we all seem to agree. So I'm content to leave this be, unless you want more illation?

I don’t care for this conversation at all because it’s apparent no one will budge from their stance on the subject and because only time will tell… but uh Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq aren’t paid big bucks for analyzing the games of NBA players— they’re paid big bucks because of 1) name recognition and 2) entertainment. People who get paid to analyze players are called scouts.

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I don’t care for this conversation at all because it’s apparent no one will budge from their stance on the subject and because only time will tell… but uh Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq aren’t paid big bucks for analyzing the games of NBA players— they’re paid big bucks because of 1) name recognition and 2) entertainment. People who get paid to analyze players are called scouts.

I'll give you they are primarily entertaining. But if they were vapid idiots in their analysis no one would watch them for the past 15+ years. They know their stuff.

Also scouts are far from infallible or every draft wouldn't be filled with busts.

Lastly, the funny thing is we all agree on the main point here that Sengun was the right pick. We are arguing nonsense around the edges of that

[Dejounte]

Man, I never said scouts were infallible.

It’s more reasonable to trust a scout’s analysis on a player that they spend their 9-5 work day watching the same player and backing it with data than a player who bases his analysis on a player they play against four times a year at most.

[toki9]

As someone who wanted Sengun and was shocked (and disappointed) on draft night by the Primo pick, in retrospect, I'm not sure Sengun would have been the right pick at that point. I think many people recognized Sengun's offensive potential (with some questions--but hopeful--about his 3-point ability), but the big question mark was always on the defensive end. And the team still had Poeltl under contract. Also, and more tellingly I think, the team signed Landale merely days after--which probably meant that Landale was already in the team's plans when they passed on Sengun. So the team took a gamble on Primo, with the knowledge of having had their bases covered at that position. I don't think that's an egregiously bad risk taking.

If one wants to call Primo the wrong pick as a basketball player, than one is really judging him on his rookie year alone because he became a washout for a really non-basketball reason. One could argue that the team should have been better about their due diligence with regards to his background, but I don't know how reasonable it is to expect the team to pick that up. So at core, this is still the same debate people had about Primo before he got cut--and it's not something one can really conclude without knowing what Primo would have become as a 2nd and 3rd year player.

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Man, I never said scouts were infallible.

It’s more reasonable to trust a scout’s analysis on a player that they spend their 9-5 work day watching the same player and backing it with data than a player who bases his analysis on a player they play against four times a year at most.

No you didn't. Wasn't trying to say you did. It's just the clear inference left that that position would be the one job le hat wasn't infallible, yet again, they routinely and repe ively blow drafts by misjudging talent. And it's almost universal in scope.

I choose to weigh a player's evaluation roughly equally to that of a scout because there are things you pick up on a player's game and abilities when you're actually on the court with them vs in bleachers with a pen, pad, and stopwatch

[rascal]

Man, I never said scouts were infallible.

It’s more reasonable to trust a scout’s analysis on a player that they spend their 9-5 work day watching the same player and backing it with data than a player who bases his analysis on a player they play against four times a year at most.

Not necessarily. Some fans could make better scouts than the actual scouts.

[rascal]

As someone who wanted Sengun and was shocked (and disappointed) on draft night by the Primo pick, in retrospect, I'm not sure Sengun would have been the right pick at that point. I think many people recognized Sengun's offensive potential (with some questions--but hopeful--about his 3-point ability), but the big question mark was always on the defensive end. And the team still had Poeltl under contract. Also, and more tellingly I think, the team signed Landale merely days after--which probably meant that Landale was already in the team's plans when they passed on Sengun. So the team took a gamble on Primo, with the knowledge of having had their bases covered at that position. I don't think that's an egregiously bad risk taking.

If one wants to call Primo the wrong pick as a basketball player, than one is really judging him on his rookie year alone because he became a washout for a really non-basketball reason. One could argue that the team should have been better about their due diligence with regards to his background, but I don't know how reasonable it is to expect the team to pick that up. So at core, this is still the same debate people had about Primo before he got cut--and it's not something one can really conclude without knowing what Primo would have become as a 2nd and 3rd year player.

Primo never looked all that special on the court. It was a bad reach by the front office.

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As someone who wanted Sengun and was shocked (and disappointed) on draft night by the Primo pick, in retrospect, I'm not sure Sengun would have been the right pick at that point. I think many people recognized Sengun's offensive potential (with some questions--but hopeful--about his 3-point ability), but the big question mark was always on the defensive end. And the team still had Poeltl under contract. Also, and more tellingly I think, the team signed Landale merely days after--which probably meant that Landale was already in the team's plans when they passed on Sengun. So the team took a gamble on Primo, with the knowledge of having had their bases covered at that position. I don't think that's an egregiously bad risk taking.

If one wants to call Primo the wrong pick as a basketball player, than one is really judging him on his rookie year alone because he became a washout for a really non-basketball reason. One could argue that the team should have been better about their due diligence with regards to his background, but I don't know how reasonable it is to expect the team to pick that up. So at core, this is still the same debate people had about Primo before he got cut--and it's not something one can really conclude without knowing what Primo would have become as a 2nd and 3rd year player.

Solid post. Don't agree on the underlying conclusion that Primo wasn't an absurd overreach (remembering the main argument for us taking a kid that had at best late in the first or a solid 2nd round grades was that a team was supposedly gonna maybe get him around 15-20 -- which should have meant drafting the best player at 11 and then moving back into the mid to late 1st round later with some trade)...but a good post nonetheless.

[KobesAchilles]

Sengun should’ve been the pick. But we messed up and picked Primo. There were a lot of bs justifications for the pick. One being that Primo would’ve been a top 5 pick the next year (he wouldn’t have been). Primo was an obvious bad pick when we made it.

Sengun is putrid on defense. He has no feel for it. It’s not just he’s bad but he’s often out of position for no reason at all. That can be fixed by the right coach but even if it is fixed then he goes from an F- to a C. He won’t ever be a positive rim protector. That said, if he is paired with Victor next year then he wouldn’t have to be and I think his game would translate very well along side Victors offensively.

The Spurs just need a franchise player. All these C players are nice to have as long as long as you have an A player. We don’t. It’s a race between us and Houston to get one bc it looks like everyone else in our division has one. Victor is vital for us to contend in the coming years.

[toki9]

Solid post. Don't agree on the underlying conclusion that Primo wasn't an absurd overreach (remembering the main argument for us taking a kid that had at best late in the first or a solid 2nd round grades was that a team was supposedly gonna maybe get him around 15-20 -- which should have meant drafting the best player at 11 and then moving back into the mid to late 1st round later with some trade)...but a good post nonetheless.

Here are a couple of articles on the historical outcomes of NBA draft slots. They’re pretty interesting in terms of what you should expect out of drafts.

https://thedatajocks.com/nba-draft-pick-values/

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/...t-expectations

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For those that didn't see Sengun's stat line tonight...and a quick reminder that he is just 20:

33pts; 16rebs; 6assts; 4blks; 14-17fgs.

We ed up...bad.

Should go to the Laker forum to see what they're saying about the kid.

Sengun became the second youngest Rocket behind only Hakeem to record a 30-10 game.

Sengun joins Charles Barkley, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain to have 33/15/6 with 82 FG% in a game.

Did I mention we ed up yet...and when I say we, I mean PATFO/Wright

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, the Spurs ed up a wet dream. I don't really understand how they blew this one that badly.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

For those that didn't see Sengun's stat line tonight...and a quick reminder that he is just 20:

33pts; 16rebs; 6assts; 4blks; 14-17fgs.

We ed up...bad.

Should go to the Laker forum to see what they're saying about the kid.

Sengun became the second youngest Rocket behind only Hakeem to record a 30-10 game.

Sengun joins Charles Barkley, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain to have 33/15/6 with 82 FG% in a game.

Did I mention we ed up yet...and when I say we, I mean PATFO/Wright

Will you whine for the rest of his career?

[Mr. Body]

Will you whine for the rest of his career?

We probably should. This was colossal.

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Will you whine for the rest of his career?

If that's what you wish to call it? Yes.

[Thomas82]

For those that didn't see Sengun's stat line tonight...and a quick reminder that he is just 20:

33pts; 16rebs; 6assts; 4blks; 14-17fgs.

We ed up...bad.

Should go to the Laker forum to see what they're saying about the kid.

Sengun became the second youngest Rocket behind only Hakeem to record a 30-10 game.

Sengun joins Charles Barkley, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain to have 33/15/6 with 82 FG% in a game.

Did I mention we ed up yet...and when I say we, I mean PATFO/Wright

I just wish it would translate to some wins for them. From the outside looking in, they seem to be throwing games.

[JuneJive]

I wonder how will he adapt on the defensive side.

Will never become a rim protector nor will he gain mobility to defend in space.

Good luck with that.