******* 2021 Super Bowl LV Thread: Brady vs. Mahomes: The Battle of the GOATs *******

[Neo.]

to be fair the raiders tackles got whipped all game, wasnt primarily guys up the middle

but a forgotten note of that superbowl is that with like 6-7 minutes to go the raiders actually got it down to a 2 possession game

tampa had 2 pick-sixes in the last 90 seconds of the game

yeah, and if they just kicked the XPs, they would have been within 10 in the 4th with over 6 minutes to go, against a tampa offense that completely puttered out. that could have changed their approach drastically late in the game.

[DAF86]

You can't use a picture to declare for sure there's a hold or not, you need to watch the play on real time.

[Neo.]

No hold?

He was about to toss his 3rd+ INT of the game

proof?

[Spurtacular]

[FrostKing]

You can't use a picture to declare for sure there's a hold or not, you need to watch the play on real time.

Glad you finally chimed in.

49ers choked. Mahomes was cuddled

IMO. Team is down double digits, late in game, late in downs, coming off turnover - refs turn the other cheek

Telling you right now. Lose Sunday and this is Elway without the weapons or cuddling

[Millennial_Messiah]

Now the word is Dak wants a 3 year deal so his contract will end as new TV contract has to be negotiated - it’s all about the money.

Quack Prescott. Let him go to the Colts or Bears or wherever. If he goes to a cold weather team he'll truly be exposed because his QBR in cold games is downright atrocious.

[Millennial_Messiah]

And the Left doesn't think reverse racism is a thing? Jalina Porter should get shot.

[FrostKing]

And the Left doesn't think reverse racism is a thing? Jalina Porter should get shot.

No politics brother.

[Millennial_Messiah]

No politics brother.

Only if the Left doesn't start first.

[Millennial_Messiah]

small rumbles about the raiders making a move... but as has been the case since gruden took over, the whole "raiders want to move on from carr" narrative has been entirely media driven, and doesnt seem to reflect what gruden actually thinks

but per the Las Vegas Review Journal, there are teams that are expected to try to trade for Carr (teams like the Colts or WFT who dont really have the assets to get watson). and then depending on how much compensation the raiders can get, they would pull the trigger if they can get enough capital to trade for watson. so would effectively be a 3 team deal, even if executed separately.

eg, if the raiders can get a 1 and a 2/3 for carr, they flip both of those, and 2 first rounders of their own for watson

i would think you kind of have to make that move to land a top 5 QB at age 25... but i dont even think the move would really pay dividends for at least a few years. the raiders didnt miss the playoffs because of their QB play, and by trading all that for watson, you're really just hampering your ability to improve the defense, which really is the raiders' limiting factor right now.

but imo, most likely result is that the raiders hang onto carr. gruden likes him, and it would be bizarre to choose to move on from him now after his best season. i'd rather just see the raiders trade mariota for a day 2/3 pick, and use that capital to bolster the defense.

I'm not sure Watson is significantly better than Carr, except perhaps as a runner. Watson and Prescott both have quite a knack for piling up big stats when playing from way behind and then coming up just short at the end.

[spurraider21]

I'm not sure Watson is significantly better than Carr, except perhaps as a runner. Watson and Prescott both have quite a knack for piling up big stats when playing from way behind and then coming up just short at the end.

he's a much better talent overall. more aggressive downfield thrower too. would have some growing pains because gruden tends to emphasize more quick hitters, but Watson could unleash Ruggs and even Agholor a bit more.

carr might be better from 0-15 yards, but watson's big play ability + his mobility is something else.

[Millennial_Messiah]

he's a much better talent overall. more aggressive downfield thrower too. would have some growing pains because gruden tends to emphasize more quick hitters, but Watson could unleash Ruggs and even Agholor a bit more.

carr might be better from 0-15 yards, but watson's big play ability + his mobility is something else.

Carr + Agholor was a pretty damn good combo last year. I thought Agholor was a complete dud because he sucked with Carson Wentz, but Carr brought out the best in him.

I think Ruggs is just another John Ross III (Bengals), he won't amount to much more than a gadget guy and an occasional deep threat like a Tavon Austin. Overdrafted tbh.

[SpursforSix]

he's a much better talent overall. more aggressive downfield thrower too. would have some growing pains because gruden tends to emphasize more quick hitters, but Watson could unleash Ruggs and even Agholor a bit more.

carr might be better from 0-15 yards, but watson's big play ability + his mobility is something else.

I don't know that it'd be that big adjustment. Watson threw a lot of quick hit plays when he had Hopkins. Comparing Carr's last two years to Hopkins prior to sans-Hopkins and they're not too far apart on Y/A.
Also, with a top level RB, Watson could have a nice uptick in rushing yards.

[spurraider21]

Carr + Agholor was a pretty damn good combo last year. I thought Agholor was a complete dud because he sucked with Carson Wentz, but Carr brought out the best in him.

I think Ruggs is just another John Ross III (Bengals), he won't amount to much more than a gadget guy and an occasional deep threat like a Tavon Austin. Overdrafted tbh.

look at what watson does with deep threats... tantalizing. he buys them the time that carr cant to win downfield

[spurraider21]

I don't know that it'd be that big adjustment. Watson threw a lot of quick hit plays when he had Hopkins. Comparing Carr's last two years to Hopkins prior to sans-Hopkins and they're not too far apart on Y/A.

true. i have no doubt that watson would be an upgrade to carr tbh

i think the raiders should do it if they can without having to move waller, though like i said, the move wouldnt pay dividends probably for 2-3 years

[Millennial_Messiah]

look at what watson does with deep threats... tantalizing. he buys them the time that carr cant to win downfield

That's on the oline... err, covidline, tbh

[spurraider21]

That's on the oline... err, covidline, tbh

independent of line play, watson can buy more time than carr can

[Millennial_Messiah]

independent of line play, watson can buy more time than carr can

Really? Because I've seen Carr buy lots of time plenty of times. He's not like Watson in that he's not going to scramble 40 yards for a rushing touchdown, but he's more than capable of picking up the first with his legs on 3rd & medium, or scrambling around the periphery of the pocket to buy time for a guy like Waller to come open. I watched quite a few Raiders games last year. Carr isn't the problem.

That Raiders defense on the other hand......

[spurraider21]

Really? Because I've seen Carr buy lots of time plenty of times. He's not like Watson in that he's not going to scramble 40 yards for a rushing touchdown, but he's more than capable of picking up the first with his legs on 3rd & medium, or scrambling around the periphery of the pocket to buy time for a guy like Waller to come open. I watched quite a few Raiders games last year. Carr isn't the problem.

That Raiders defense on the other hand......

are you seriously arguing that watson is no better at eluding pressure to buy time

[Millennial_Messiah]

are you seriously arguing that watson is no better at eluding pressure to buy time

He's a tougher and bigger body to bring down, I'll give him that

[spurraider21]

He's a tougher and bigger body to bring down, I'll give him that

[Millennial_Messiah]

I just don't think he's worth giving up the farm for when you already have a top 10 caliber quarterback and offense. The issue for the Raiders is they need to trade for khalil mack and aaron donald. Too bad one of them they already had

[spurraider21]

I just don't think he's worth giving up the farm for when you already have a top 10 caliber quarterback and offense. The issue for the Raiders is they need to trade for khalil mack and aaron donald. Too bad one of them they already had

Carr is fringe top 10... like any given year he can be somewhere between 10 and 18 or so. he was probably top 10 in 2020, which he hadnt been since 2016

with watson you know you're getting a top 5 guy for a decade.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Now if you're talking about Aaron Rodgers to the Raiders then that's a whole different dynamic. You're talking about a transcendent QB who can take a terrible defense, mediocrely coached team to 13-3 and perennial contention as long as he's healthy.

Watson on the other hand? Good slate of receivers, good offense... terrible defense, bad coaching staff, 4-12. Not a transcendent QB. Watson and Carr are both solid QBs but winning with them requires a good overall team, you can't just have a trashy defense and OL and/or coaching staff and expect to win double digits and make the playoffs every year like a Brady/Mahomes/Rodgers.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Carr is fringe top 10... like any given year he can be somewhere between 10 and 18 or so. he was probably top 10 in 2020, which he hadnt been since 2016

with watson you know you're getting a top 5 guy for a decade.

Top 5 doesn't go 4-12 when healthy all 16 games, I don't care how bad his defense or coaching staff is. Transcendent QBs don't go 4-12 healthy regardless of the team around him. (And Watson had some damn good receivers in Houston, even without Dropkins.) Top 5 QBs are transcendent.