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  1. #1
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    This is why you don't want to go into tank mode -- only tank if you're forced. Otherwise, battle, and let your young players learn how to win down the stretch of games like this. Way more important than a very low shot of a top lottery pick.

  3. #3
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    We lose this game by 15 last year. This team is far better than last.

  4. #4
    Work in Progress Fireball's Avatar
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    thx for the grades ... just a great game to watch

  5. #5
    Dejounte, White & THE IV Truth4sale$'s Avatar
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    Thanks for the grades
    U were spot on the play of Rudy Gay. Patty was not much better. Lonnie was playing great but celtics saw an opportunity to exploit him with Tatum in the 3rd. Which the did over and over, I think Lonnie lost his rhythm and confidence. The lack of another point guard hurts this team. Luckily DW returns soon. You can see how much the offense struggles without Murray or DeRozan and Pop sits them simultaneously. There was no creativity or penetration and the celtics got back in the game.

  6. #6
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Thanks.

    I loved Pop's defensive scheme, but I hated some his coaching decisions. It was weird that he let Boston come back and take the lead without calling a time-out. The play-by-play makes it seem like he used all of his time-outs, but that doesn't seem to factor commercial time-outs, so I'm not sure. I'm glad it worked out, but had SA lost, I'd've given Pop a really bad grade for that.

    Obviously the turnovers were ridiculous. That's everyone's fault and no one's at the same time. There did seem to be some communication issues on some passes, but it's clear that SA used their extra time to legit gameplan against Boston, and they were looking to hit guys on cuts for open looks that took advantage of how the Celtics play defense. I'm assuming some of the miscues came from two guys trying to exploit the same weakness but not being on the same page as to how that should be done.

    Murray had a really good fourth quarter. I thought he defense on Kemba was mostly good. He and Pop were yelling at each other during multiple possessions, which I thought was odd. It was clear Pop was expecting the team to do specific things, and I guess they weren't doing them on those possessions. I really don't like the long-twos from DJM as a top option for the offense, but he him some when it counted.

    As I stated in another thread, I thought Walker played fantastic defense on Tatum. There were times that Lonnie lost leverage, but that's going to happen when there's such a huge size disadvantage. He avoided fouls for the most part and was able to keep Tatum distracted for most of the game. He did fine he was asked to guard anyone else, and I thought he did a good job limiting open off-ball looks. His box-outs are awful, and that hurt the Spurs multiple times, but all in all, I'd say this is one of the best defensive games Walker has played.

    Johnson's aggression was contagious. It was one of those games where the other team had no idea how to stop him. That he's bad to looking like he was in the d-league in terms of outside shooting is concerning, but he'll probably streak back up soon.

    I'll probably get to the other players eventually. It's midnight.

  7. #7
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    So, game got suspended 2 days ago because we couldn't field enough players and now we play? Makes perfect sense, tbh.

  8. #8
    One TEAM One Goal siraulo23's Avatar
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    great win

    Derozan actually played well

    I cant believe Spurs pulled out this win

  9. #9
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    I felt like the grades for KJ undersell his performance. Dude was the only aggressive one on the court for stretches, and also posted double digit rebounds and 18 points on 9-14 shooting? And that huge dunk? Personally it's an A from me. He was absolutely fabulous tonight, and even fans of other teams are starting to notice just how good he is.
    Last edited by Cry Havoc; 01-28-2021 at 03:07 AM.

  10. #10
    Spurs International Expert gilmor's Avatar
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    The last 5 mins of that 2nd Q is a joy to watch.

  11. #11
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Thanks for the grades Timvp. How can the Spurs fix the slow start and the 3rd period woes? Also their turnovers tonight were just careless, uncharacteristic with the way they’ve been playing all season, albeit a very short one. But I hope they clean up on that. I’m happy with the win. They always seem to know how to beat a good team, while they struggle against a mediocre, funny but frustrating as a fan. This team can be really good if they can remain consistent with what they do best, Poeltl corralling the rebounds and protecting the rims, Lonnie/Keldon attacking the rims, LMA hitting his outside shots, Demar/DJ finding guys. If we hit the 3’s better and lessened the unforced turnover, this game would’ve been a blowout. Against a playoff team, that would be scary. That’s why this team could be very good and does not reflect its current record. I can’t wait for the whole team to be healthy and see a little more consistency. GSG!

  12. #12
    Big Body look_at_g_shred's Avatar
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    Thanks for the grades
    U were spot on the play of Rudy Gay. Patty was not much better. Lonnie was playing great but celtics saw an opportunity to exploit him with Tatum in the 3rd. Which the did over and over, I think Lonnie lost his rhythm and confidence. The lack of another point guard hurts this team. Luckily DW returns soon. You can see how much the offense struggles without Murray or DeRozan and Pop sits them simultaneously. There was no creativity or penetration and the celtics got back in the game.
    Which imho cements White as the permanent backup PG

  13. #13
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    Thanks for the grades. I do think Vassell actually had a good game and C- seems harsh. He played good D and was aggressive on offense. It seemed like he was the last option on offense but still made the Celtics pay attention. Really liking what I see from him and probably needed to take a few minutes from Walker in the 4th.

  14. #14
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Thanks for the grades
    U were spot on the play of Rudy Gay. Patty was not much better. Lonnie was playing great but celtics saw an opportunity to exploit him with Tatum in the 3rd. Which the did over and over, I think Lonnie lost his rhythm and confidence. The lack of another point guard hurts this team. Luckily DW returns soon. You can see how much the offense struggles without Murray or DeRozan and Pop sits them simultaneously. There was no creativity or penetration and the Celtics got back in the game.
    On the contrary it’s in the 1st period and opening of the 3rd period that Celtics, and other opponents in general, bury the Spurs, then the 2nd unit usually get them back in the game. Spurs 2nd unit are one of the higher scorers in the league. My problem is when Patty closest against the starters. Last night he was lucky that Kemba didn’t exploit the opportunity. But against Doncic and other starting PGs, Patty was overmatched and this is where DW comes in.

    But to stress, Spurs need to address the slow start in the 1st and 3rd period and play catchup the rest of the game. They need to start aggressive from the get go.

  15. #15
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
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    Thanks for the grades! Loved this win!

  16. #16
    Don't Try. quentin_compson's Avatar
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    Rudy was moving like a zombie - like one of the slow George A. Romero ones. It almost seemed like he was actively trying to not rebound ...
    Good win against a good team, especially considering that the whole Spurs team seemed to have butterfingers last night.

  17. #17
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    It was weird that he let Boston come back and take the lead without calling a time-out. The play-by-play makes it seem like he used all of his time-outs, but that doesn't seem to factor commercial time-outs, so I'm not sure. I'm glad it worked out, but had SA lost, I'd've given Pop a really bad grade for that.
    Teams get seven TOs per game, and the home team gets charged with a timeout each quarter if one is not used by either team by the 6:59 mark (and other team loses theirs by 2:59 mark):

    1st quarter - Spurs call timeout at 7-4 Celtics for Pop to chew out Keldon most likely for turnover. Celtics use theirs around 3 minute mark as it would be taken at next dead ball anyway.

    2nd quarter - Celtics extended lead to 8 and Pop took TO around 9 minute mark. Then Celtics took theirs around 4 minute mark up 3, and then were down 14 by halftime. No other TOs.

    3rd quarter - Spurs forced to take their TO when still up 13 due to rules. They COULD have taken another one to stop momentum, but didn’t. No timeout until under two minute mark with next stoppage when Celtics had to take theirs.

    4th quarter - Celtics took early TO (I think loose ball situation) and then another one at 7:45 mark after Spurs went up 5. They were down to the final two they could take to last three minutes.

    Spurs had four left, and took one at 5:51 up four, and another up one less than two minutes later. Both were use or lose it.


    Don’t hate the TO management, though could have possibly burned one more to stem run in third quarter. That would have also meant one less to use midway through fourth if needed, or in last two minutes to advance ball to mid court.

  18. #18
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Teams get seven TOs per game, and the home team gets charged with a timeout each quarter if one is not used by either team by the 6:59 mark (and other team loses theirs by 2:59 mark):

    1st quarter - Spurs call timeout at 7-4 Celtics for Pop to chew out Keldon most likely for turnover. Celtics use theirs around 3 minute mark as it would be taken at next dead ball anyway.

    2nd quarter - Celtics extended lead to 8 and Pop took TO around 9 minute mark. Then Celtics took theirs around 4 minute mark up 3, and then were down 14 by halftime. No other TOs.

    3rd quarter - Spurs forced to take their TO when still up 13 due to rules. They COULD have taken another one to stop momentum, but didn’t. No timeout until under two minute mark with next stoppage when Celtics had to take theirs.

    4th quarter - Celtics took early TO (I think loose ball situation) and then another one at 7:45 mark after Spurs went up 5. They were down to the final two they could take to last three minutes.

    Spurs had four left, and took one at 5:51 up four, and another up one less than two minutes later. Both were use or lose it.


    Don’t hate the TO management, though could have possibly burned one more to stem run in third quarter. That would have also meant one less to use midway through fourth if needed, or in last two minutes to advance ball to mid court.
    I guess I never realized that those official time-outs count against the team. I thought it was like in the NFL where teams get their time-outs but there were extra commercial breaks that didn't count against them. How do they decide who has to take a time-out when you get under 7/4 minutes? Team with the ball? Does it depend on which quarter it is? Just feels weird.

  19. #19
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    While I'm sure most of us are happy with the win, here are some good points on Bostons rather strange strategy.
    Nice article by Tom Westerholm.
    5 takeaways as Celtics fall to Spurs, despite season debut of core 4 players

    Link:
    5 takeaways as Celtics fall to Spurs, despite season debut of core 4 players (msn.com)


    Agree with Westerholm on why did Stevens go with 12 players in the 1st half. Yet why on Earth did he disappoint us all in not playing Tacko Fall?
    2. When Celts were in Zone D the Spurs were not nearly effective as Celts man to man D.

  20. #20
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    Yep Spurs struggled with the zone

  21. #21
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    DDR dotting Thompson in the eye was nice and for me unexpected

  22. #22
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    I loved Pop's defensive scheme, but I hated some his coaching decisions. It was weird that he let Boston come back and take the lead without calling a time-out. The play-by-play makes it seem like he used all of his time-outs, but that doesn't seem to factor commercial time-outs, so I'm not sure. I'm glad it worked out, but had SA lost, I'd've given Pop a really bad grade for that.
    Eh, the timeout usage seemed fine to me. I don't know if it was mentioned in the game thread but the biggest mistake timeout-wise I thought was not challenging that Tatum and-1 at the end. The Spurs had a foul to give and a timeout to use, so that was a perfect time for a challenge. Replays show Tatum clearly shouldn't have been given a continuation on that one -- especially with today's rules that have neutered most continuations. Tatum wasn't close to gathering before he was fouled by Poeltl. Challenge that and the Celtics go from a three-point play to side out of bounds.

    Regarding timeouts to stop the run, I don't think that would have done anything. The issue was the zone defense the Celtics were using, which the Spurs were having trouble with no matter how many stoppages there were.

    Besides, timeouts to stop/start runs is more fan psychology than anything concrete. There's little proof timeouts actually do anything, tbh. By far the most advantageous aspect of a timeout is advancing the ball late in games -- and the Spurs were the team that had timeouts to spare when that was needed.

    He and Pop were yelling at each other during multiple possessions, which I thought was odd. It was clear Pop was expecting the team to do specific things, and I guess they weren't doing them on those possessions.
    Yeah, so basically what Pop was trying to do was clear out the strongside whenever the Celtics were in a zone. From there, the Spurs would run a pick-and-roll with the strongside empty, which would basically eliminate the impact of the zone and make it two-on-two basketball.

    What Pop was yelling at Murray about was him not clearing the strongside by running along the baseline to the other corner. But Murray's hesitation was due to: 1) The weakside corner was already occupied (usually by KJ), 2) The shot clock was low-ish, so he's supposed to use his judgement to figure out if he can clear in time, 3) The Celtics weren't even following him anyways so clearing wasn't making much of a difference; Boston was happy to defend Murray and KJ on the weakside with one defender.

    Tbh, I could see it from both point of views. Early on, the strategy was working -- particularly because the Spurs beat the Celtics a number of times with backdoor cuts when one defender was trying to guard two players on the weakside. So, with that in mind, I can see why Pop wanted Murray to clear the strongside no matter what. But, then again, Murray hesitating was reasonable because eventually the Celtics knew it was coming and it just resulted in the weakside getting bunched up while DeRozan tried to go 2-on-3 or 1-on-2.

    Either way, I'm just glad Pop stuck with Murray. As recently as last year, Murray thinking for himself and going against Pop would have resulted in Murray getting benched for the rest of the half. This year, Pop is almost always letting the youngsters play through minor things like this instead of banishing them to seat next to the Coyote.

  23. #23
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    If Keldon could hit the open three and if he had a dribble dribble pull up 12 footer
    Then he would be something spry

  24. #24
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Eh, the timeout usage seemed fine to me. I don't know if it was mentioned in the game thread but the biggest mistake timeout-wise I thought was not challenging that Tatum and-1 at the end. The Spurs had a foul to give and a timeout to use, so that was a perfect time for a challenge. Replays show Tatum clearly shouldn't have been given a continuation on that one -- especially with today's rules that have neutered most continuations. Tatum wasn't close to gathering before he was fouled by Poeltl. Challenge that and the Celtics go from a three-point play to side out of bounds.

    Regarding timeouts to stop the run, I don't think that would have done anything. The issue was the zone defense the Celtics were using, which the Spurs were having trouble with no matter how many stoppages there were.

    Besides, timeouts to stop/start runs is more fan psychology than anything concrete. There's little proof timeouts actually do anything, tbh. By far the most advantageous aspect of a timeout is advancing the ball late in games -- and the Spurs were the team that had timeouts to spare when that was needed.
    I don't know if you get to advance the ball on a challenge, and considering how easy it is for Boston to swarm guys, I could see him not wanting to use it. That said, the broadcast made it seem like the foul was on Murray well before the continuation. It was a very odd call, and I do wonder if that's even challengeable.

    I think teams can and should know how to attack various zones, so if the problem was what the Celtics were doing, Pop should've been able to counter it. Like did the Celtics just stop doing what was working, or did SA eventually figure it out? If they figured it out, it seems like they could've used a time-out to at least consider it. The Spurs went into the final six minutes with four time-outs, so I'm not going to act like they were smart for hoarding them. Even getting a set play could've been useful.

    Yeah, so basically what Pop was trying to do was clear out the strongside whenever the Celtics were in a zone. From there, the Spurs would run a pick-and-roll with the strongside empty, which would basically eliminate the impact of the zone and make it two-on-two basketball.

    What Pop was yelling at Murray about was him not clearing the strongside by running along the baseline to the other corner. But Murray's hesitation was due to: 1) The weakside corner was already occupied (usually by KJ), 2) The shot clock was low-ish, so he's supposed to use his judgement to figure out if he can clear in time, 3) The Celtics weren't even following him anyways so clearing wasn't making much of a difference; Boston was happy to defend Murray and KJ on the weakside with one defender.

    Tbh, I could see it from both point of views. Early on, the strategy was working -- particularly because the Spurs beat the Celtics a number of times with backdoor cuts when one defender was trying to guard two players on the weakside. So, with that in mind, I can see why Pop wanted Murray to clear the strongside no matter what. But, then again, Murray hesitating was reasonable because eventually the Celtics knew it was coming and it just resulted in the weakside getting bunched up while DeRozan tried to go 2-on-3 or 1-on-2.

    Either way, I'm just glad Pop stuck with Murray. As recently as last year, Murray thinking for himself and going against Pop would have resulted in Murray getting benched for the rest of the half. This year, Pop is almost always letting the youngsters play through minor things like this instead of banishing them to seat next to the Coyote.
    Good stuff, and a better way to put into words what I was just looking at in terms of feelings. This was the most "game-planned" game I can think of from this year. I know the extra time had something to do with it, but I think Pop wanted to see how his small-ball matched up against a team that has a more actualized version of the lineup. I saw DeRozan clearing Walker out basically all the time, and I didn't like it because I thought it messed with spacing too much, and the last thing the team needed was to run so many possessions between their two vets while everyone else just stood around. But LMA's shooting really helped leverage the defense, since it meant the opposing big could not help on DeRozan. That forced more commitment by the help, which led to the back-door passes. It was a great example of building an offense around the team's best players and letting the other guys fill in the cracks. The young players only really contributed offensively in bursts (Walker and Johnson in the second, Murray in the fourth), but them not doing a ton of scoring might've let them put more of their energy into defense, and I think the results speak for themselves.

  25. #25
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Also, Spurs fans should really miss Danny Green. There's no one on the team close to as good as Prime LDN was at transition defense. I don't know if the Spurs ever get clean stops on the break nowadays.

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