Will the Lakers moves work?

[Gridmed]

The Laker moves will not work!

Just give me some time, I'll find a 16 year old that looks 19...


2

[Whottt]

Adidas...LA began this season with 3 30 something players that were integral to their team..Fox, Horry, and Shaq...

How did their seasons go this year? Do you think Horry just went from being a 10 year clutch shot specialist to being a choker by chance? no you guys relied on him too much and he had no legs by seasons end.

And you are right..the Spurs were old, especially at guard..after 99... they would cruise through the regular season and then come playoff time they couldn't buy a basket. No legs. Steve Smith isn't a choker, he never has been neither was Porter, they just got old and we relied on them too heavily.

Now if you get some old guys and put them on ice for most of the regular season it pays huge dividends..see Brian Shaw and Rod Harper on your own team and Willis and Kerr on mine.

LA is gonna be relying on these guys as starters...Shaq, Malone, GP...their backups are weak..it's gonna catch up to them, even a stud like GP..it is definitely gonna catch up to Malone. Fisher isn't 30 but he's got the feet of an 80 year old man.

My pick for injuries will be either Shaq or Malone...that toe of Shaq's isn't going to go away, and the harder he works to keep weight off the worse that toe is gonna get IMO. I don't want to see the guys get injured believe me, it sucks when that happens..but it's a by product of age. Anyway what I have noticed is that guys with ankle or toe problems that continue to play through them, usually end up popping a knee ligament sooner or later.

[Gridmed]

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usually end up popping a knee ligament sooner or later.
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LOL you sick freak :p

[Archie]

Say what you will, Whottt, LA just got better and as of now are the favorites, not SA.

I don't care how old Payton is...he's 35 and he's kept himself in great shape. LA can pick up some guys for the bench like Voshon Lenard, Jim Jackson, Peeler, etc to give them a break in the backcourt.

[Whottt]

Arch..if Kidd is willing to sign for what I heard the Spurs offered him you may as well do it. I wish it was the years that were shorter though.

What happens if blow our cap on Kidd and screw our future and still aren't able to take down this Laker monster?

In a way doesn't it make sense to ride it out with our guys this year and beging our dynasty next year?

I am pissed we didn't get Payton..every one is acting like LA created this greatest team of all time... we could have signed both of these guys and kept our future intact...and no one really seemed to like that idea.

I have always wanted Payton over Kidd for a short term deal. He's a much better fit for our team..like I said earlier, the only thing Kidd does better than GP is about 3 rebounds per game.

This Laker Team is gonna be a half court monster...GP runs the pick N roll almost as well as Stockton..basically LA just added the Utah Jazz to Kobe and Shaq for about 6 million dollars.

There's probably no stopping that team this year.

[Archie]

The cap room is likely gone after this summer why worry about what happens in 2010? The point is to be in the hunt from now until then for that is Duncan's prime.

[Whottt]

Arch I know how good Payton is I have been saying for us to get him over Kidd all year long. You are preaching to the converted..and I agree there's probably not anyone we can get without O'neal or Brand that is gonna be able to stop this team without a little luck. But I tell you what, they are still gonna have to double Duncan, and if we get great shooters we can still take em out.

[Whottt]

Not true, I know I have seen Baseline Bum, in one of his non Kiddloving moods, outline a plan for getting a top FA next year. A young one that provides scoring and lots of other stuff as well.

[Archie]

Yet if they get a Kidd then the Spurs' perimeter just improved significantly. The Spurs have a great group of young perimeter talent that fits in well with Kidd's game. The trick will be adding that big. Depending on how long of a contract they are offering they could nab a PJ Brown, Malone, or Mourning as their big.

[Archie]

The only way that happens is for the Spurs to lose Jack and Clax. Plus the would only be able to offer one year deals to fill out the supporting cast this summer. They would be hard pressed to retain max cap flexibility for 2004-05. It's now or never.

[Whottt]

Hmmm isn't it dependent on what the cap is set at as well?

I just never bought into getting the best available FA when you have a young championship team that needs one key position filled.

And also Duncan is signing for less than expected and Jax is willing too also. Technically, don't we get Jax's Bird rights after this year?

Maybe we do lose Jax which I am against but I think I have seen a plan that doesn't cost us Jax.

If Kidd is willing to sign for what the Spurs offered you can't turn it down..let him get his ring and then trade him to GS.

[Archie]

The thing to remember is that the Spurs had what it took to win a le last season. Things change. You cannot count on your current mix being sufficient going forward.

Duncan's signing for less than expected simply to show his commitment to SA in free agency. And it's not like he gave the Spurs some huge windfall today.

[Whottt]

I am not gonna argue with you on cap issues I don't about the cap. But I have seen the plan. And yes I know the situation changes but I have wanted Payton over Kidd all along. If we go after Payton for short term the situation doesn't change quite as much.

[Archie]

Basically they would have to wave the white flag for this upcoming season. And you just gave up your chance to add franchise level talent for a hope. No thanks.

[Ghost Writer]

This is a sad day for me. I have coveted Payton for years and now he has signed on for the MLE with the vile Lakers. Awful.

This is simple, people.

Malone >> Walker/Horry/Madsen

Payton >> Fisher

You can claim that Payton and Malone are not superstars anymore or that they won't adjust, but the Lakers should come close to 70 games on sheer talent alone.

[MI21]

Agreed Ghost.

I have noticed that me and you have both been posting that the fact that the Spurs have saved up for a couple of seasons to have this money to sign some major talent to surround Duncan with, and the Lakers may end up with better, but probably as good a pickups as our beloved Spurs will, with only 5 Mill to spend, sucks very hard.

I cant belive it actually.

[adidas11]

Whott, again you over overrating age, and it's impact on a team.

Yes, Malone and Payton are older players, but they are not going to be expected to play 40 minutes a night (and they're both in excellent shape, so they actually could play extensive minutes anyhow!) But the key is that they will have competent backups, players who have started and won championships (Fisher and possibly Horry) And the Lakers also have an excellent balance of younger and older players on the team. They pushed a superior Spurs team this past playoffs to six games, and even had a realistic chance to win the series if Horry's shot goes down in game 5. Now they have upgraded both talent-wise, and depth wise with Payton and Malone. Without a doubt, they will be very strong contenders to win the championship next year.

And remember, they still have Kobe and Shaq, who both made 1st Team All NBA last season. You place those two with a bunch of scrubs, and they're a threat to beat anyone. Now you place them alongside Payton and Malone????? Come on now...even you Whott have to realize the significance of this, and not let homerism cloud your judgement.

[Whottt]

Adidas you need to pull your head out and learn to read.

When and where have I said that these moves for LA are not signifigant? I made it quite clear I think they are the team to beat. I also pointed out what I think are their only weaknesses. You don't think they're weaknesses and that's your perogative..I however do think age is going to be a factor if anything is, and I point to the lack of 40 year olds in the NBA as proof of this.

[adidas11]

Fair enough.

All I'm saying is it isn't like the Lakers are stocked with 40 year olds. They'll have one (1) in Karl Malone. Then they'll have 3 players in their mid 30s in Fox, Payton, and possibly Horry. Remember, Horry will be in a reduced role again for much of the regular season, and Fox is on the shelf until at least January, maybe even longer. Then you have a player in his prime in Shaq (who does need to show up in better shape this upcoming season, from the start). After that, the rest of the team is very young. Fisher, Kobe, Madsen, rookies, Devean George. Remember, the Spurs won the championship this past year, WITH AN OLDER LINEUP OVERALL, than what the Lakers will be fielding next year. Robinson, Willis, Kerr, Bowen, they all played important roles in San Antonio's championship run.

The Lakers didn't get killed on transition defense this past season. They got killed in half court defense, and defending the 3 point shot. That is the point that I'm trying to make.

[Ghost Writer]

I think Whott is looking for hope, that's all.

We have to hope that this is the year that Malone actually spends time on the IR and that Payton exhibits more than just a lost step or two.

No one is taking anything away from the sheer talent of those two stars. If someone is, he's a dipsh1t like IceMan.

[HollywoodKobe]

Excellent posts everyone. One thing that is good is the ZenMaster will be in control of it all. That's what makes me confident that these pieces will fit. This team will remind me of the late 90s Bulls teams. MJ, Pippen and Rodman - all vets, a step slower, but much wiser much like Shaq, Payton and Malone. Throw in a still improving NBA superstar Kobe Bryant and we may have something historical here.

Either way, the NBA and the West in particular is becoming even more compe ive than in the 80s. Lakers, Spurs, Mavs and Kings - these are all teams that have legitimate shots at the le. And each team is now improving every year and stacking up talent against one another. It's going to be a dogfight this year. And the off-season moves are just beginning.

[obie]

First lets look at Payton.
Yes hes a supreme upgrade over Derek Fisher. But he is no longer a superstar.

20 PPG, 8.3 APG. He's 13th in efficiency, 2nd in assists, only to Jason Kidd. He was 15th in the league in double doubles with 28, most of any point guard other than Kidd. He IS stiill a superstar.

His defense is one of the most overrated in the league, he has lost several steps and can't defend any of the quicker points in the league

NBA All-Defense Team 9-years in a row. He can take some pressure off Kobe on guarding the best defender on the other team. 13th in the NBA in steals. Just because he is 35 doesn't mean he can't play defense. He still plays 40+ minutes a game as well.

Both he and Kobe have to dominate the ball so there will be "some" conflict there.

Already addressed this point in my last post... Payton wants to win.

In the end he can easily be a reliable 3rd scorer who can give them 15 points a night but this is just going to be another Glen Rice move that everyone thought would make them invincible.

Yes, a very reliable 3rd scorer who can run the break and play great defense. And Glen Rice has never lost a playoff series in a full season as a Laker, I would call that invincible.

As for Malone, lets assume they get him.
He cannot play in the triangle, lets just get that out of the way right now.

Tell me why? I would say he's a perfect fit for the triangle, and while I am no expert on the offense, I have read Tex Winter's book on it and would consider myself fairly knowledgable on the principles of the offense. Give me a reason why he "cannot play in the triangle".

He cannot play defense anymore.

Malone is a strong PF who can play defense. While he is not a premier defender, he is a veteren (so he gets calls) and he can get the job done. Sure, he cannot stop Tim Duncan (can anyone?), but you also have Shaq. It is definetely an upgrade over Horry. Also,11th in the league in steals last season. The most for any PF in the NBA. Thats incredible for a big man of his age.

He can't rebound. That is what the Lakers need and want from their pf rebounding and defense

Averaged almost 8 rebounds per game. He is an outstandinig defensive rebounder, 10th in the league. Sure, hes not a hustler who is gonna go to the offensive boards and get you some like Madsen and Walker, but he bring the Lakers what they need.


I don't see how people can deny that these additions help the Lakers. 70 wins may be a stretch, but if everyone stays healthy, it is possible.

[Archie]

The thing that Malone would bring is that LA could rest O'Neal more because they would have another legit low post player. That and his jumper.

Payton is the more valuable acquisition for them.

[Ghost Writer]

I disagree. I actually think a backcourt mate of Payton's ability could hinder Kobe's "selfish" offensive game.

What the Lakers ahve been lacking is a credible PF to go against the Western power forwards like Wallace, Webber and Duncan.

Malone will give the Lakers a third scorer and someone who can help Shaq rebound and defend down low.

That will be huge for the Lakers.

I'm not going to get in adebate here, but I feared Malone landing on the Lkaers more than Payton even though I love Payton and he is the better player today.

[adidas11]

Another key about Malone, is that the Lakers will only be paying him the veterans minimum. If for some reason Malone doesn't work out in LA in terms of performance, then LA can easily cut their loses, and let him go (ala Mitch Richmond and J.R. Rider) He by no means ties them down for the extended future.

For what they are paying, picking up Malone AND Payton is huge. Talk about getting your money's worth!