Reply With QuoteWell, they'll still have to double Duncan.
Thank goodness.
First lets look at Payton.
Yes hes a supreme upgrade over Derek Fisher. But he is no longer a superstar. His defense is one of the most overrated in the league, he has lost several steps and can't defend any of the quicker points in the league ; the new rules means he can't use his strength to body up his man. Both he and Kobe have to dominate the ball so there will be "some" conflict there. In the end he can easily be a reliable 3rd scorer who can give them 15 points a night but this is just going to be another Glen Rice move that everyone thought would make them invincible.
As for Malone, lets assume they get him.
He cannot play in the triangle, lets just get that out of the way right now. He cannot play defense anymore. He can't rebound. That is what the Lakers need and want from their pf rebounding and defense, occasional scoring from offensive putbacks. 10 pts 6 rebounds a game.
An improved lakers team? Sure but 70 wins no way.
Well, they'll still have to double Duncan.
Thank goodness.
They will have the most talented team in the leauge.
If Kobe and Shaq hadn't already won together for so long, I would doubt the new look Lakers' ability to gel.
Right now, barring some major moves by the Spurs, the Lakers are my favorite to win next year.
These are excellent concerns to point out.
How will Malone and Payton make the transition to complimentary role players? Can they make the adjustment?
Given, they're both upgrades on Robert Horry and Derek Fisher. And both Laker fans and Laker haters have always pointed out about the lack of talent across the board, especially at these two positions. So I commend the Lakers for doing what they can to upgrade. Of course egos are going to be a challenge to overcome as well.
I've said this before, but I'll say it here.
This scenario has one chance and one season to work. Malone is not even a top 5 PF in the west anymore, let alone the league (probably not top 10 in the league). He may be able to contribute a bit this season, but not much...he won't score that much, and rebounding? Eh, we'll see.
Again, it's a short-term fix. Payton may have 5-6 years left in him and he's not what he used to be. Malone, is older and is DEF not what he used to be and he can't defend Duncan and Payton can't defend Parker.
So, not sure this is as impressive as it seems.
Get these guys five years ago, and you'd have something. Now? They're desperate so desperate they'll play for chump change to get a le. If they were that magnificent, they wouldn't settle like this. They know their time is quickly running out.
It can work, but will it? that remains to be seen. Still a good move by LA.
Quote: "Malone is not even a top 5 PF in the west anymore, let alone the league (probably not top 10 in the league). "
You're kidding me, right? Malone led a team as the primary scorer into the playoffs, at the age of 39!!!!
As for Payton and Malone not being the players they used to be, that is actually more ideal for this situation. Remember, they are not expected to perform at a superstar level in LA, but merely to fill roles and perform those roles well. The question is whether or not they can make that adjustment, but the expectation should NOT be if they be First Team All NBA Superstars again. The Lakers already have their two superstars.
1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Nowitzki (if you call him a PF)
4. Webber
5. 'Sheed
Remember,
Malone: 20.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.68 spg
Who else is clearly better than Malone? Brand? Ben Wallace?
Question.
Payton's the addition that concerns me moreso than Malone. You can't look at these guys in isolation. You have the two man game with Kobe & Shaq and now you have GP waiting to make a team pay for focusing on them. GP can put the rock on the floor and make a play. If you look at the Lakers they've never really had a guy like that outside of Bryant himself. They've had guys like Ron Harper who are leaders on the court but no one to whom to turn to make a play. Payton's old but he still has plenty of game. LA now has a legit 3rd scorer and one of an on court leader.
The Spurs' strategy for defending LA was to let Shaq and Kobe get theirs and shut down the supporting cast. The method was to use Bowen's D on Kobe to force Kobe to work for his while staying at home on the other Lakers. Say what you will, but GP is still a pretty damn good 1 on 1 player.
Malone is an improvement but it will be harder for him to adjust, IMO. He'll be relegated to spotting up for the shot...not a bad option to have but I don't see his impact as being as important as Payton's. LA has really not had a straight up playmaking guard who looks to get others involved.
Now they do. To discount that is foolish.
Quote: "Malone is an improvement but it will be harder for him to adjust, IMO. He'll be relegated to spotting up for the shot...not a bad option to have but I don't see his impact as being as important as Payton's. LA has really not had a straight up playmaking guard who looks to get others involved."
This is why I've said time and time again that I would have preferred PJ Brown over Karl Malone. PJ Brown has proven that he can function in the blue-collar hustle type of PF player, while Malone has never done that in his career. I think the challenge for Malone is to integrate himself in the Laker triangle offense by hitting open shots when he gets them, and to provide solid rebounding and defense in conjunction with Shaq in the paint. A major part of Malone's effectiveness with the Jazz this past season was that they continued to run baseline and low post screens for him, allowing him to free up for easy baskets in the paint. That won't happen for him in LA, and it will be a different mindset and approach for him to get the "feel" of the game now.
One thing is for sure, if that team doesn't deliver a championship, they'll be the biggest laughing stock ever.
Thank LA for making everyone else the heavy underdog.
PJ would have been a better pickup for LA.
I still think even Payton is a gamble. He's used to having the ball, shooting when he wants, waving his (sorry ass) big men out of the lane so that he can post up some guard, and throwing weights at anyone who crosses him in the locker room.
I'll leave you with a paraphrase from someone in the Seattle organization after the GP trade:
He's not a leader.Gary wasn't the problem, but after all of these years, we figured out that he wasn't the solution, either.
On paper these moves should produce an unbeatable team. Ranked by efficiency/game, fat Shaq is #3, ladies man Kobe is #5, scrub Malone is #14, and slacker Payton is #18.
That's an understatement. Forget the chemistry problems, a poorly timed injury (Gary is 35, Malone 41) could spell disaster. One thing's for sure, they just got even older and more unathletic. I don't see how this move will help even 2 years from now.One thing is for sure, if that team doesn't deliver a championship, they'll be the biggest laughing stock ever.
SAB, he's a leader on the court and that's what matters most in the postseason.
The thing about the Lakers, is that they can't worry about several years from now, when their window of opportunity is now. They are in the midst of a dynasty, and have to make appropriate moves to keep it going.
As for the pressure on them, it will be tremendous, probably even unheard of. That is another facet that I'm not extremely thrilled with. I was sort of hoping that with the Lakers not being the champions anymore, that they wouldn't be the #1 target in the league anymore either. Teams come harder at the Lakers than any other team in the league, by far. Of course with this move, the media circus will be insane, and the Lakers will probably remain the #1 target to beat next season.
Everyone needs to drop the triangle slight against Malone.
The last two years LA has run less and less of the triangle and more pick and roll, it fits Malone's game perfectly.
AHF
At first glance, it seems like a big mistake for the Lakers. Four All-Stars, four players who could lead a team in scoring. How could it possibly work?
But this is an interesting scenario. Gary Payton and Karl Malone (assuming they both go to the Lakers), are turning down personal accomplishments and money, to hopefully win an NBA Championship.
Here are four reasons why it will work.
1) Priorities - Karl Malone is on the verge of breaking the All-Time Record for points. He could stay in Utah for two more seasons, average 18 points a game, retire the all time leading scorer. Instead, he chooses to be the 3rd/4th option on a championship contender. This personal sacrafice reveals his priorities, and it will carry over on the court. He isn't expecting the ball every possesion. He isn't expecting to average 20 ppg, and be the staple of the offense. If he wanted that, he could stay in Salt Lake City, and make a lot more money. He wants a ring, simple as that. He's willing to do what the Lakers need him to do, he has no hidden agendas.
Gary Payton is also sacraficing personal glory for a championship. He could be the leading scorer of so many teams, but he would rather win.
The transition will be smooth, because both players are making this choice to be a lesser player. They had a choice between personal glory or team glory, and they chose team.
2) Defense - Something both these players bring is defensive intensity. They are both very good defenders, and although they are past their prime, they still can D it up. (Payton cant defend any of the quicker points in the league? give me a break iceman). Karl Malone is known for having a helicopter take him up a mountain so he could slide down in a defensive stance. GP is THE GLOVE. These players have been great defenders their whole career, and they will be able to focus more on defense because the offense is not going through them like it was previously. If the Lakers needed one thing, it was defensive intensity (Maybe Karl Malone can teach them how to defend the pick-and-roll).
3) The Triangle - Some speculation on the addition of Payton and Malone hurting the triangle has baffled me. This is exactly what the triangle is all about. Five players working together. The problem with the triangle recently has been too much focus on isolation (just ask tex winter). The Lakers abandoned many of the Triangle's principles lately, because they didn't have a great power forward, and their point guard was sub-par as well. This will rejuvinate Tex Winter's offense, and bring back the principles that won 9 championships.
4) Crafty Veterans - The Laker's aren't adding young guns like Elton Brand and Stephon Marbury. Karl Malone and Gary Payton have been in the league a while, and they know how to play the game. This makes me think that they won't suffer from Blazer's-Disease, having too many scorers, too many guys who need the ball. These Vets will add something that younger and more athletic guys don't have, knowledge.
--obie
Are they having a liquidation sale on crack in your neighborhood?They are both very good defenders, and although they are past their prime, they still can D it up. Karl Malone is known for having a helicopter take him up a mountain so he could slide down in a defensive stance.
This team is going to have 3 major weaknesses...
Defense, transition defense(big time) and age.
Now I know I am gonna get some from the Kiddiots on this...but LA is vulnerable to transition...you can't rely on it totally against them, which is why Kidd never sold me..but if you hit them with it periodically they get blown off the court.
It was one of the reasons we beat them.
They are actually going to be a weaker team in transition with this team. Luckily for them they have GP who can dish without turning it over 15 times in a game like some PG's. Still..you can still run on a team with out getting TO's.
This team will struggle more with teams like the Mavericks and Kings than they have in the past.
If they should meet either one of those teams in the post season they will probably win but...it takes a lot of games to win a le these days.
The same reason this might not work is the same reason many of us are against Kidd..age.
I know most guys over look it..people look at MJ and Kareem and think guys can play until they're 40 and not wear down or become injury prone. Well that isn't the case for most players..most players do slowdown at 30 and most do become injury prone.
This Laker team is gonna have some injuries due to age..as durable as GP and Malone have been..father time catches up to everyone..whether it will catch up to them this year or next I don't know but it will catch up to them in the next 2 years. tired legs caught up with LA this year..
LA had a great off season...they have skilled players..but age is the great equalzier and you just can't say enough about having young and talented legs. It sure was nice as a SpurFan this year to be running all those young guys out there at seasons end, who still had legs on their jumpers.
I might add, anyone that doesn't think Tony Parker is going to be a huge asset, even more important, going up against this Laker team, needs to rewatch this past season.
Edit: And IMO it is a mistake to expect egos to hurt this team. Kobe and Shaq were humbled in this post season, Malone and GP swallowed their pride when they said they would play for less.
And even if they are still ego maniacs....People bash Phil Jackson's coaching all the time..I don't..he's a great coach..he's an asshole, but still a great coach, and if there is one thing he does well it's manage egos on his team. If he got Scottie and MJ to accept Rodman, whom they absolutely despised, meshing these 4 egos is gonna be a piece of cake.
Age is overrated Whott. And since when did the Lakers become an "old" team? Half their team can be considered young by NBA standards. Devean George, Kobe Bryant, Derek Fisher, Kareem Rush, Jannero Pargo, Madsen, and now they have two other rookies stepping in. "Older" players can include Malone, Payton, Fox, and Horry. Shaq is in the middle, at 31.
Their problem last year wasn't age. It was depth, and wearing down after winning 3 straight championships.
Age was never a concern when the Spurs won the championship in 1999 (albeit, a lockout shortened season)
And since when did the Lakers become an "old" team? Half their team can be considered young by NBA standards.
Kareem Rush, Jannero Pargo, Madsen, and now they have two other rookies stepping in.
You forgot to mention skill adidas....
Yeah Whottt the Spurs don't need Kidd. Getting Kidd and a solid big like a PJ Brown would give the Spurs what they need going forward in a LA with Payton world.
Payton's not expected to carry a team now. He's the 3rd star now and he fits that role like a (yes) glove.
The time is now. The Spurs can't keep this cap flexibility without losing talent going forward. They need to make a real acquisition and just not mark time. With the mid-level exception the Lakers just made an acquisition that vaulted them to the top of the league, like it or not.
Spurs must get one of JO'Neal/Kidd/Brand. Period.
That post made absolutely no sense Duff.
The Lakers won 3 championships in a row, so I'm sure they have a better sense of how to remain compe ive and give themselves a chance to win better than any other team in the league. And a line up of Payton, Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and Pee Wee Herman, I'm sure there is some "skill" in there somewhere.
Obviously it went way over your feeble brain.That post made absolutely no sense Duff.
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