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  1. #276
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    Well, your prerogative is wrong, since the Spurs are getting visibly better with DeRozan at the helm. Much as you might dislike his game, most Spurs fans (me included, tbh) came into the season with that mindset, bracing for a losing, tanking even, season, yet we're 5th in the West right now and would be fighting for a good playoff seed if COVID didn't the team over. The young players stepping up is a big part of it, but they wouldn't get nearly the same shot opportunities without DeMar distributing the ball like he does; and while I personally don't think he can ever be "the guy" on a true championship contender, it doesn't mean that he can't foster a good and growing group of young players for a couple years, and be a mentor for them, until they're ready to take the next step. Personally, except for Murray and maybe White, I don't see other young players on the Spurs ready to be "thrown into the fire".

    Now, contract length/amount is a different discussion entirely, and I agree I wouldn't want him back if it meant a deal like Hayward got. But he's certainly worth his game for a price, and it's a higher price than most posters in SpursTalk (all stuck in pre-2016 contracts and cap numbers, apparently) think of.
    Ur in for a world of heartbreak this season...this has been Demars story every season...he has mad much better seasons than this...legit all star seasons...it always ends in an epic flameout...it's not like he goes down beasting...many times he IS the reason his team loses

  2. #277
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    Ur in for a world of heartbreak this season...this has been Demars story every season...he has mad much better seasons than this...legit all star seasons...it always ends in an epic flameout...it's not like he goes down beasting...many times he IS the reason his team loses
    its about will we even make the playoff without derozan. And what is the alternative. Spurs is obviously considering trading him. But the trade is supposed to make the team better. Not trading for the sake of it. So the idea is how we can transition to the future (murray keldon someone from free agent etc) without needing to tank.

    its obvious we are not building around him. In fact spurs dont have a strong iden y as of now. Not really a superstar to build around. Its about having someone to keep us afloat until we can find someone to build around.

    I dont think spurs wants to tank.

  3. #278
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    its about will we even make the playoff without derozan. And what is the alternative. Spurs is obviously considering trading him. But the trade is supposed to make the team better. Not trading for the sake of it. So the idea is how we can transition to the future (murray keldon someone from free agent etc) without needing to tank.

    its obvious we are not building around him. In fact spurs dont have a strong iden y as of now. Not really a superstar to build around. Its about having someone to keep us afloat until we can find someone to build around.

    I dont think spurs wants to tank.
    It's not about tanking...it's about moving in the right direction quicker...I think getting rid of him for assets will cause us to target players that can fit better with an iden y we want to cultivate...I think having him here slows that down... for example if the warriors didn't get rid of David Lee (perceived as the CLEARLY better player at the time) Draymond Green would have still been a non-factor, and the warriors would have never won that ring...Steph would not have won mvp... sometimes u have to move on from a player you KNOW won't make u better in the long run, even if it means a few more short term losses

  4. #279
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    You talking about a random comment in a game thread from the beginning of last year? come on son, you and I both know thats BS. No one on this forum ever said Forbes was better than White/Murray. If you can find one i'll gladly eat crow but i can almost guarantee that phrase has only been typed in this thread
    "forbes ceiling is either steph curry or the ter curry"
    U said u would eat crow if I find one... but I bet u will just dismiss it...I keep telling y'all I have been right with many things I said...y'all just don't like me so u will never admit when I'm right...

  5. #280
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    "forbes ceiling is either steph curry or the ter curry"
    U said u would eat crow if I find one... but I bet u will just dismiss it...I keep telling y'all I have been right with many things I said...y'all just don't like me so u will never admit when I'm right...
    Just find one. I'm now curious.


    Edit: And you've been cool in my book.

  6. #281
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    It's not about tanking...it's about moving in the right direction quicker...I think getting rid of him for assets will cause us to target players that can fit better with an iden y we want to cultivate...I think having him here slows that down... for example if the warriors didn't get rid of David Lee (perceived as the CLEARLY better player at the time) Draymond Green would have still been a non-factor, and the warriors would have never won that ring...Steph would not have won mvp... sometimes u have to move on from a player you KNOW won't make u better in the long run, even if it means a few more short term losses
    it a gamble. Curry so happened to work out. Of course if we see potential curry in our young guys. Why not. But it can be like sixers trading igoudala for bynum and ended up with a 4 year tanking plan. Spurs is small market. We cant lose for 4 years like lakers and magically get lebron.
    so its balancing trading derozan and getting the right assets. Trading derozan for a worse asset risks the team losing for multiple years.

    so my take is derozan trade will happen if spurs can get a good asset out of it. If not then it will depends how much will other teams pay derozan. I doubt spurs want to overpay him on a very long deal

  7. #282
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    "forbes ceiling is either steph curry or the ter curry"
    U said u would eat crow if I find one... but I bet u will just dismiss it...I keep telling y'all I have been right with many things I said...y'all just don't like me so u will never admit when I'm right...
    Where's the link?

  8. #283
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Even if the post is real, there's a lot of stupid people on this board who post a lot of stupid . Anyone who posted that back then was likely ridiculed back then and for duncan2k5 to take it seriously and hold onto it like a grudge 3-4 years later is ing idiotic.

  9. #284
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    i found the post, it's actually from TDMVPDPOY

    forbes ceiling is either steph curry or the ter curry

  10. #285
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    I mean I guess that counts but you really had to search for that didn't you

    That post is also from the beginning of the 2018 season before anyone realized how terrible he really was

  11. #286
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    some of the other posts in that thread are pretty funny also . here's a good one

    I’m sold with DD/Forbes/Dante/Gay/LA lineup, and staggering DD/Gay/LA with the 2nd unit. Please no Forbes/Mills/Belli/Bertans/Gasol lineup. I mean really?

  12. #287
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    some of the other posts in that thread are pretty funny also . here's a good one



    you stalker!!

  13. #288
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    i found the post, it's actually from TDMVPDPOY
    That re 's been crazy quiet ever since Dejounte's ascension... Or was it some other player he had a random hate boner against...?

  14. #289
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Ur in for a world of heartbreak this season...this has been Demars story every season...he has mad much better seasons than this...legit all star seasons...it always ends in an epic flameout...it's not like he goes down beasting...many times he IS the reason his team loses

    Eh, I'm not emotionally invested in DeMar at all so it's not hearbreak that I might feel. I don't doubt that DD has had better statistical seasons, but right now, you're witnessing the absolute pinnacle of his game: he's managed to balance his masterful scoring arsenal, with a pass-first mentality that helps him set the rest of the team up, and take it slow until it's time for the show. You can love or hate it, but I at least appreciate that we're getting the very best year out of a very good player. He might never take us to a ring or whatever, but I never had that expectation in the first place... I'm just coming along for the ride.

    And for the record, I still dislike DD going hero-ball in late, close games. One of the "conditions" I'd have for him coming back, would be for him to increasingly give the ball to the youngings in those kinds of situations - they'll probably lose more games than DeMar would in their place, but it's much-needed experience, and they have to fail at it before they excel.

  15. #290
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    Seriously...it's crazy how his good games vs bad teams in the regular season make ppl want to keep him...he won't make us win...not will we be able to build upon an iden y because he needs the ball in his hands to be effective...he strung toronto fans along for a decade by having great regular season games vs bad and mediocre teams, but laid an egg in playoffs and big games...now he is older in a tougher conference...can't shoot threes, can't play off ball, can't defend, and we wanna build around him? Lol
    I know you guys trash Duncan2k5 a lot, but there is a lot of truth to what he's saying. This game against a team that is likely to make the finals shows Demar's flaws and weaknesses quite clearly. He seems to play great against teams and that makes people think he's a really good to great player, but in the end, without a three point shot, he's just too limited when going up against the upper echelon teams. He ends up playing like this all the time against the best teams and usually in the playoffs when the big games come around, this is the Demar you get. That's exactly why the Raptors had no problem trading him for Kawhi. Kawhi wasn't the most clutch playoff player in 2015 and 2016 (I think he choked those two years, but even then, I'd still take him over Demar any day of the week). Kawhi showed a lot more in the 2017 playoffs than Demar ever has, and I think that was enough for the Raptors to move on from him and take Kawhi without even thinking twice about it.

    I will give Demar some credit, though, as it does seem like he's a great player to help build up a young team in the early stages, but if/when that team starts to mature and is looking like it can start contending, then that's the time you gotta let Demar go. He can take you to the point of contention, but then will bring you back down due to his limitations. He really needed to work on a three point shot, and Aldridge really needed to lose weight and be more mobile. Both have go no-one to blame but themselves if they have to leave and sign for a lot less money than they expected. It's all on them.

  16. #291
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I know you guys trash Duncan2k5 a lot, but there is a lot of truth to what he's saying. This game against a team that is likely to make the finals shows Demar's flaws and weaknesses quite clearly. He seems to play great against teams and that makes people think he's a really good to great player, but in the end, without a three point shot, he's just too limited when going up against the upper echelon teams. He ends up playing like this all the time against the best teams and usually in the playoffs when the big games come around, this is the Demar you get. That's exactly why the Raptors had no problem trading him for Kawhi. Kawhi wasn't the most clutch playoff player in 2015 and 2016 (I think he choked those two years, but even then, I'd still take him over Demar any day of the week). Kawhi showed a lot more in the 2017 playoffs than Demar ever has, and I think that was enough for the Raptors to move on from him and take Kawhi without even thinking twice about it.

    I will give Demar some credit, though, as it does seem like he's a great player to help build up a young team in the early stages, but if/when that team starts to mature and is looking like it can start contending, then that's the time you gotta let Demar go. He can take you to the point of contention, but then will bring you back down due to his limitations. He really needed to work on a three point shot, and Aldridge really needed to lose weight and be more mobile. Both have go no-one to blame but themselves if they have to leave and sign for a lot less money than they expected. It's all on them.
    People don't on duncan2k5 because he's"right" or he's "wrong". They on him because he's loud and obnoxious.

    Also, majority of people recognize DeMar's flaws and I don't know anyone who actually wants to build a team around him. Again, keeping him doesn't mean building around him. To duncan2k5, everything is black and white and nothing else. Literally no one is saying DeMar will lead us to championships, but that's how it is in his twisted mind.

  17. #292
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    A Duncan2k5 post is a painful, yet highly predictable read.

  18. #293
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    A Duncan2k5 post is a painful, yet highly predictable read.
    Yup.. funny thing is that D2k5 is pretty much the DeMar Derozan of SpursTalk.. the dude's probably a cool fella but his takes can be very annoying & frustrating

  19. #294
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I think people are confusing things. Yes, DD is playing well for us, but he isn’t a changed player. He still the guy people wanted off the team THIS recent summer. What’s different? Dejounte has made a leap, Keldon is solid, Yak is doing great and the TEAM is doing better. DD is a part of that, obviously. And I have changed my mind about him. But I won’t panic if he leaves. He’s still a complicated and at times frustrating player.

    It's not the end of the world if he leaves in FA,
    and the Spurs have seen a lot of their young players take a step forward to the point that his production could be replaced, maybe not entirely, but close enough, in a year or two. But also, vet leadership on the hand of a player who's as consistent as DeMar, who is a real distributor and doesn't ball-hog, instead letting the young players grow, isn't easy to come by - and especially hard for a small-market team like the Spurs. I'd go as far as to say that, between getting Collins in FA and losing DD, and retaining DD but not getting Collins at a Max price tag.... I'd rather keep DeMar at this point. Maybe some recency bias after Collins' awful play in that Hawks game but it's still true.

    So overall, I'm pretty neutral on the issue. Which, ironically, speaks volumes about how much better DeRozan has gotten on the Spurs, since I leant pretty heavily to one side before this season/the Bubble.
    The primary reason I ever wanted DeMar to leave was to make way for Keldon to develop. Now that Keldon is getting all the minutes in the world, I don't mind DeMar as much. Sure, Keldon is probably playing out of position but maybe the Spurs address that by getting a starting PF this offseason and Keldon comes off the bench for DeMar. That may be shocking to hear coming from a HUGE Keldon fan, but after seeing Poeltl deservingly supplant LMA as the starting C, I think I'm open to letting Keldon earn DeMar's spot by becoming CLEARLY better than him(shooting, passing, dribbling, everything). This is all on the condition that Keldon plays the same amount of minutes he's getting now coming off the bench.
    I can't help noticing that even the guys who are (sort of) standing up for DeRozan are still awfully lukewarm on him. I'd think a true positive force for this team would be much more enthusiastically embraced. I get the takes some have on him, and I'd impressed by his improvement with regards to distribution & assist numbers, but I still think the Spurs move towards being contenders faster without him than with him.

  20. #295
    TD since 97 ezau's Avatar
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    I can't help noticing that even the guys who are (sort of) standing up for DeRozan are still awfully lukewarm on him. I'd think a true positive force for this team would be much more enthusiastically embraced. I get the takes some have on him, and I'd impressed by his improvement with regards to distribution & assist numbers, but I still think the Spurs move towards being contenders faster without him than with him.
    Kawhi isn't walking through that door again, son. Move on.

  21. #296
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    Duncan2k5 posts like a bot. Are we sure he isn't one?

  22. #297
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    I know you guys trash Duncan2k5 a lot, but there is a lot of truth to what he's saying. This game against a team that is likely to make the finals shows Demar's flaws and weaknesses quite clearly. He seems to play great against teams and that makes people think he's a really good to great player, but in the end, without a three point shot, he's just too limited when going up against the upper echelon teams. He ends up playing like this all the time against the best teams and usually in the playoffs when the big games come around, this is the Demar you get. That's exactly why the Raptors had no problem trading him for Kawhi. Kawhi wasn't the most clutch playoff player in 2015 and 2016 (I think he choked those two years, but even then, I'd still take him over Demar any day of the week). Kawhi showed a lot more in the 2017 playoffs than Demar ever has, and I think that was enough for the Raptors to move on from him and take Kawhi without even thinking twice about it.

    I will give Demar some credit, though, as it does seem like he's a great player to help build up a young team in the early stages, but if/when that team starts to mature and is looking like it can start contending, then that's the time you gotta let Demar go. He can take you to the point of contention, but then will bring you back down due to his limitations.
    He really needed to work on a three point shot, and Aldridge really needed to lose weight and be more mobile. Both have go no-one to blame but themselves if they have to leave and sign for a lot less money than they expected. It's all on them.
    That's pretty much how I view Demar. He's not a guy to build a championship team around but he's the guy who will help you to develop your young players. Once your players are developed that's when you dump him.

  23. #298
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Kawhi isn't walking through that door again, son. Move on.
    Has nothing to do with Kawhi whatsoever. Not sure where you got that.

  24. #299
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    People don't on duncan2k5 because he's"right" or he's "wrong". They on him because he's loud and obnoxious.

    Also, majority of people recognize DeMar's flaws and I don't know anyone who actually wants to build a team around him. Again, keeping him doesn't mean building around him. To duncan2k5, everything is black and white and nothing else. Literally no one is saying DeMar will lead us to championships, but that's how it is in his twisted mind.
    I haven't been around much the past season or so, as it took me a while to get over the Kawhi fiasco (I watched most of the games the first season after he left, but sort of had a hangover last season and didn't want to watch many of the games), however, I made a concerted effort to try and watch every single Spurs game this season because I really did like the potential of some of the young guys. I guess it started with Derrick White and Dejounte in the first season Kawhi left/was traded, and I've liked the draft picks since then too, so I wanted to start watching every single game again. It was also the first time in my life since I became a Spurs fan in '93/'94 where I didn't follow every single game (I couldn't start watching games until 2004 in my country, but before then I followed every game online in some form or another - 90% of the time live). Maybe I also needed a break from Basketball as I was so into it during the D-Rob/TD era and what I thought was going to be the Kawhi era (I also think it's a good thing that I've been able to step back and realize there is other more important stuff. I still love basketball, though, especially when it's played the right way like the Spurs try to).

    Anyway, I digress, so back to the topic at hand. I just haven't been around much the past season/season and a half prior to this one to follow Duncan2K5s posts, so I'll take your word on it for the reasons everyone keeps crapping on him. I just thought his points in that post were really accurate and that is what I've thought the past year or two about DeMar now that I've had a good enough look/handle on his game and mental makeup/temperament in tight/big games.

    That's pretty much how I view Demar. He's not a guy to build a championship team around but he's the guy who will help you to develop your young players. Once your players are developed that's when you dump him.
    I didn't think this before, but seeing how some of these young players are playing now, I looked back at the Raptors and where they were when he left. I really do think DeMar had a pretty big hand in helping some of these young guys get better and become better players, but I think that is the endpoint with him as a leader/player to build your team around. If you want to go any further, he's not the guy to take you there as a number one option. I'm not even sure if he's best suited as a 2nd or 3rd option on a Championship level team. I am leaning towards 3rd option. His lack of three point shot is a killer and really holds him back. These past few years in SA, he really should have made a huge effort to add one to his game. It's all on him for not doing so.
    Last edited by Ice009; 03-02-2021 at 02:23 AM.

  25. #300
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    I haven't been around much the past season or so, as it took me a while to get over the Kawhi fiasco (I watched most of the games the first season after he left, but sort of had a hangover last season and didn't want to watch many of the games), however, I made a concerted effort to try and watch every single Spurs game this season because I really did like the potential of some of the young guys. I guess it started with Derrick White and Dejounte in the first season Kawhi left/was traded, and I've liked the draft picks since then too, so I wanted to start watching every single game again. It was also the first time in my life since I became a Spurs fan in '93/'94 where I didn't follow every single game (I couldn't start watching games until 2004 in my country, but before then I followed every game online in some form or another - 90% of the time live). Maybe I also needed a break from Basketball as I was so into it during the D-Rob/TD era and what I thought was going to be the Kawhi era (I also think it's a good thing that I've been able to step back and realize there is other more important stuff. I still love basketball, though, especially when it's played the right way like the Spurs try to).

    Anyway, I digress, so back to the topic at hand. I just haven't been around much the past season/season and a half prior to this one to follow Duncan2K5s posts, so I'll take your word on it for the reasons everyone keeps crapping on him. I just thought his points in that post were really accurate and that is what I've thought the past year or two about DeMar now that I've had a good enough look/handle on his game and mental makeup/temperament in tight/big games.



    I didn't think this before, but seeing how some of these young players are playing now, I looked back at the Raptors and where they were when he left. I really do think DeMar had a pretty big hand in helping some of these young guys get better and become better players, but I think that is the endpoint with him as a leader/player to build your team around. If you want to go any further, he's not the guy to take you there as a number one option. I'm not even sure if he's best suited as a 2nd or 3rd option on a Championship level team. I am leaning towards 3rd option. His lack of three point shot is a killer and really holds him back. These past few years in SA, he really should have made a huge effort to add one to his game. It's all on him for not doing so.
    I have talked to Raptor fans on other message boards but they have said he was huge in the development of Vanvleet,Siakam, and the other young guys on their team. Vanvleet mentioned the other day in an interview when he scored over 50 plus points that Demar would always pushed him to be better and encourage him. He has an effect on younger guys. He genuinely wants to see them do well. You can see that with the way Dejounte,Keldon talk about him. Especially how Dejounte always defends him online. He's a good guy to have around young players. He's good at being mentor towards young guys and also creates an environment for them to succeed. Those things are very underrated in the league. I don't hold it against him for not being a good 3 point shooter. I do believe he has tried to get better at it. Not everybody can get better at it like Kawhi did. It took Jason Kidd until his mid 30's to get good at 3 point shooting and Kidd had a great work ethic. Commend Demar on becoming a great playmaker with the Spurs. His assist turnover ratio has been amazing this year.

    On a le team he would be the third option. He's good for the Spurs right now until Dejounte,Keldon,White can take the next step to becoming all-star caliber players.

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