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  1. #76
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Agreed.

    And these same guys refusing to give Pop any credit. Dude showed in the off-season that he put in NO work during it. He had about the tiest start to a season you could ask of from a player. Next thing you know, after couple months of actual coaching from Pop, and he is balling. But my Poeltl would always be good
    Slow starts to seasons =/= not being good

  2. #77
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    And how do you transform that sentence into "you said he would be even better on another team"?
    I said you "suggested" it. And then you got your panties in a twist when I said that you suggested it when guess what? You suggested it. Why even add that part in the sentence then if you didn't mean it?

    And slow start? Damn your parameters and mine are waaaaay different. You can't just say he sucked beyond belief? That he was way worse than you expected him to be? You just say that he had a slow start. No big deal. 22% free throw shooting. eh just a slow start. Pump faking Ja Morant, eh slow start. Scoring zero points and air balling lay ups. Eh slow start. There's a reason why some players start slow and others don't. They don't put in work during the offseason.

    LMA puts in no work in the offseason and guess what, he gets off to slow starts. being lazy will do that to you

  3. #78
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    I said you "suggested" it. And then you got your panties in a twist when I said that you suggested it when guess what? You suggested it. Why even add that part in the sentence then if you didn't mean it?

    And slow start? Damn your parameters and mine are waaaaay different. You can't just say he sucked beyond belief? That he was way worse than you expected him to be? You just say that he had a slow start. No big deal. 22% free throw shooting. eh just a slow start. Pump faking Ja Morant, eh slow start. Scoring zero points and air balling lay ups. Eh slow start. There's a reason why some players start slow and others don't. They don't put in work during the offseason.

    LMA puts in no work in the offseason and guess what, he gets off to slow starts. being lazy will do that to you
    Well, I also suggested he might be worse too but you chose not to quote that part for some reason. If you really want to know how I think about this subject you should have stayed with the last part: "likely, he would be about the same anywhere".

    You are acting as if Poeltl had somehow improved his game dramatically and that couldn't be further from the truth. He's pretty much the same player he was when he entered the league only with more minutes, more experience and more confidence.

    If you told me Poeltl had developed a jumper, or a post up game, or did anything much different than what he used to do then I might be on board with the idea that the Spurs really did something special to develop this guy (like they did with Kawhi's jumper). But as things are I can't claim that because Poeltl isn't showing us anything that he didn't already show in Toronto. If anything, the biggest change, game wise, is the fact that he's now a much worse FT shooter.

  4. #79
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Well, I also suggested he might be worse too but you chose not to quote that part for some reason. If you really want to know how I think about this subject you should have stayed with the last part: "likely, he would be about the same anywhere".

    You are acting as if Poeltl had somehow improved his game dramatically and that couldn't be further from the truth. He's pretty much the same player he was when he entered the league only with more minutes, more experience and more confidence.

    If you told me Poeltl had developed a jumper, or a post up game, or did anything much different than what he used to do then I might be on board with the idea that the Spurs really did something special to develop this guy (like they did with Kawhi's jumper). But as things are I can't claim that because Poeltl isn't showing us anything that he didn't already show in Toronto. If anything, the biggest change, game wise, is the fact that he's now a much worse FT shooter.
    But his game has improved dramatically. He actually knows how to play basketball now. It's the small things that he has been coached at. Like I said, keeping his hands up now, going straight up more often, knowing where to be on defense. Knowing where to be on offense. His screens are good yes, but they look even better now that he learned to have a purpose when he sets them. Hs buy in has gone up this year as well. This is all coaching.

  5. #80
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Well, I also suggested he might be worse too but you chose not to quote that part for some reason. If you really want to know how I think about this subject you should have stayed with the last part: "likely, he would be about the same anywhere".

    You are acting as if Poeltl had somehow improved his game dramatically and that couldn't be further from the truth. He's pretty much the same player he was when he entered the league only with more minutes, more experience and more confidence.

    If you told me Poeltl had developed a jumper, or a post up game, or did anything much different than what he used to do then I might be on board with the idea that the Spurs really did something special to develop this guy (like they did with Kawhi's jumper). But as things are I can't claim that because Poeltl isn't showing us anything that he didn't already show in Toronto. If anything, the biggest change, game wise, is the fact that he's now a much worse FT shooter.
    Disagree. At no point during his limited minutes last year did Poeltl display groundbreaking defense as he's doing now. He has better overall defensive awareness. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that he didn't play good defense last year. He did. But not at THIS level.

  6. #81
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    But his game has improved dramatically. He actually knows how to play basketball now. It's the small things that he has been coached at. Like I said, keeping his hands up now, going straight up more often, knowing where to be on defense. Knowing where to be on offense. His screens are good yes, but they look even better now that he learned to have a purpose when he sets them. Hs buy in has gone up this year as well. This is all coaching.
    Those are all things he knew how to do in Toronto. In fact, even earlier. "Game instincts" was one of Poeltl selling points coming into the draft.

    Great defender, great screener, good roler, good finisher, underrated passer, high IQ. These were all of Poeltl's best attributes and are the same that he has now.

    I don't know why are you arguing this, you were the one that admitted to not having watched him play while he was in Toronto.
    Last edited by DAF86; 03-04-2021 at 05:50 PM.

  7. #82
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    Disagree. At no point during his limited minutes last year did Poeltl display groundbreaking defense as he's doing now. He has better overall defensive awareness. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that he didn't play good defense last year. He did. But not at THIS level.
    He has always been a great defender. In fact, going by defensive DBPM, this year isn't even his best or second best defensive years. The biggest difference in Poeltl's case is that he has been playing more, so the great defensive impact he has always had is even more noticeable.
    Last edited by DAF86; 03-04-2021 at 05:51 PM.

  8. #83
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    In fact, if you compare the numbers, in terms of efficiency, Poeltl is having arguably his worst season since he got to San antonio.

    PER, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, VORP are all worse than the previous 2 years. So much for the narrative of this incredible year of development he's supposedly having.

  9. #84
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    In fact, if you compare the numbers, in terms of efficiency, Poeltl is having arguably his worst season since he got to San antonio.

    PER, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, VORP are all worse than the previous 2 years. So much for the narrative of this incredible year of development he's supposedly having.
    Bro, the numbers you're using for Poeltl are per 48 (or 36?) numbers for his stronger years. There's a lot of context here missing. You can make Boban look like a superstar with per 48's, but it doesn't mean he is. It's one thing to look great in limited minutes, it's another to do it for extended minutes.

    Regardless, this debate is has two overly simplistic angles. It is not true Poeltl's been this great player from day 1 and it is not true that Poeltl is only this great because of Pop. The truth is very likely both or somewhere in the middle.

  10. #85
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Bro, the numbers you're using for Poeltl are per 48 (or 36?) numbers for his stronger years. There's a lot of context here missing. You can make Boban look like a superstar with per 48's, but it doesn't mean he is. It's one thing to look great in limited minutes, it's another to do it for extended minutes.
    PER, OBPM, DBPM, BPM and VORP don't make minutes distinction. They just meassure the efficiency of a player, it doesn't matter if he played 5 or 35 minutes.

    Regardless, this debate is has two overly simplistic angles. It is not true Poeltl's been this great player from day 1 and it is not true that Poeltl is only this great because of Pop. The truth is very likely both or somewhere in the middle.
    Nobody said that though.

  11. #86
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    PER, OBPM, DBPM, BPM and VORP don't make minutes distinction. They just meassure the efficiency of a player, it doesn't matter if he played 5 or 35 minutes
    but with larger sample sizes, numbers could even out. ie boban being a PER superstar but in reality, not a very good player

  12. #87
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    PER, OBPM, DBPM, BPM and VORP don't make minutes distinction. They just meassure the efficiency of a player, it doesn't matter if he played 5 or 35 minutes.



    Nobody said that though.
    Yes somebody did say that. I shut down that poster though. And if you didn’t believe then why did you bring up his draft analysis. You were like he was always this good at defense just look at his draft report. That back peddling doe

  13. #88
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Yes somebody did say that. I shut down that poster though.
    Link? You can't provide one, because it didn't happen, tbh.

    And if you didn’t believe then why did you bring up his draft analysis. You were like he was always this good at defense just look at his draft report. That back peddling doe
    Because I wasn't pointing out that Poeltl has always been this good, I pointed out that the strengths he has now are the same he has always had. He was always a good defender that set good screens and rolled to the basket. He now make those things better than in the past because of a natural development process.

  14. #89
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Link? You can't provide one, because it didn't happen, tbh.



    Because I wasn't pointing out that Poeltl has always been this good, I pointed out that the strengths he has now are the same he has always had. He was always a good defender that set good screens and rolled to the basket. He now make those things better than in the past because of a natural development process.
    tbh I wonder if you know what coaching is. It is schemes and handling egos and leadership and all that stuff but it is also taking a players strengths and improving them. You are literally agreeing that this has Pop’s coaching all over it with every post yet somehow refusing to admit it. It’s a little funny. He was always a good defender, he had the tools, it was his MO out of college. Okay. But none of that matters in the NBA. Jimmer was an elite shooter in college, couldn’t shoot in the NBA due to speed. But Pop took Poeltls strengths from college, improved on them and this is the result. We saw what Poeltl looked like without coaching and guidance to start the season. A ing mess.And no it wasn’t a “slow start” it was him putting in no effort in the off-season. And all of a sudden his effort level went through the roof. But nope not coaching.

    Also it was some guy name ragas saying he wasn’t a scrub his rookie year and was always a good player. When he was a scrub his rookie year. That’s what we call 11th men in the roster. It’s like saying Eubanks isn’t a scrub

  15. #90
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    Do not know why you arguing cause it is plain that Poodle is a GOOD defender and a TERRIBLE offensive player. You get what you get and you don't throw a fit - I think he will only show slight improvements to this which is not bad I guess?

  16. #91
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    tbh I wonder if you know what coaching is. It is schemes and handling egos and leadership and all that stuff but it is also taking a players strengths and improving them. You are literally agreeing that this has Pop’s coaching all over it with every post yet somehow refusing to admit it. It’s a little funny. He was always a good defender, he had the tools, it was his MO out of college. Okay. But none of that matters in the NBA. Jimmer was an elite shooter in college, couldn’t shoot in the NBA due to speed. But Pop took Poeltls strengths from college, improved on them and this is the result. We saw what Poeltl looked like without coaching and guidance to start the season. A ing mess.And no it wasn’t a “slow start” it was him putting in no effort in the off-season. And all of a sudden his effort level went through the roof. But nope not coaching.

    Also it was some guy name ragas saying he wasn’t a scrub his rookie year and was always a good player. When he was a scrub his rookie year. That’s what we call 11th men in the roster. It’s like saying Eubanks isn’t a scrub
    That would be the Raptors. That's the team that transitioned him from college to the pros, tbh.

  17. #92
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I haven't seen the Dude around much lately, but he was absolutely cliff-jumping off that signing



    That whole thread is great to read back in hindsight. SpursTalk will on anything and everything, no matter the context...
    Still stand by what I said contextually; but thank goodness Pop saw the light and at least unleashed the youth. Was scared he wouldn’t do it. The results have been very fun overall.

  18. #93
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Still stand by what I said contextually; but thank goodness Pop saw the light and at least unleashed the youth. Was scared he wouldn’t do it. The results have been very fun overall.
    Come on, seriously? You were cliff-jumping, repeatedly, over what is now apparent (well, it was apparent at the time too for those of us who knew) to be a great value contract, maybe one of the best in the league for starting Cs. At least acknowledge your judgement was rash... Or don't, I don't keep tabs on you, just thought it was funny and obviously wrong at the time

    Agree with that though. Much more fun to watch the youth this season. Now, if only he'd stop closing out games with Patty every single time.....

  19. #94
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Come on, seriously? You were cliff-jumping, repeatedly, over what is now apparent (well, it was apparent at the time too for those of us who knew) to be a great value contract, maybe one of the best in the league for starting Cs. At least acknowledge your judgement was rash... Or don't, I don't keep tabs on you, just thought it was funny and obviously wrong at the time

    Agree with that though. Much more fun to watch the youth this season. Now, if only he'd stop closing out games with Patty every single time.....
    I was very clear about what upset me about Jakob and it had nothing to do with the player or even the money all that much IMVHO

    The fact LMA is gone now makes it look better. LMA being here was one of my main beefs.

  20. #95
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Come on, seriously? You were cliff-jumping, repeatedly, over what is now apparent (well, it was apparent at the time too for those of us who knew) to be a great value contract, maybe one of the best in the league for starting Cs. At least acknowledge your judgement was rash... Or don't, I don't keep tabs on you, just thought it was funny and obviously wrong at the time

    Agree with that though. Much more fun to watch the youth this season. Now, if only he'd stop closing out games with Patty every single time.....
    Trade ddr and LMA then I change my tune a lot.

  21. #96
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I'm just as excited as you are to not see LMA on the team anymore, but the FO hasn't traded neither of them yet... Save that champagne bottle for later, I don't wanna jinx this

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