So? They are not fundamentalists like the Madrasa put out nonetheless. They don't meet the definition of Islamic fundamentalist. Admit it and quit trying to deflect with other .
You were wrong.
And quite frankly it's amazing how you think you can speak for what motivates anyone other than yourself. You don't get to speak for minorities or what motivates them. All you do here is reveal your harebrained takes.
Can it both be true that the vast majority of muslims in the US are not salafists and there still be multiple different versions of Islam?Fuzzy
Of course it can.
My whole point is that while some in the US are salafists the vast majority are not, dim.
Claiming one's own victory is not as convincing as you would like, dim.
is your argument that US Muslims are conservative? if so, what was the purpose if bringing up their democrat affiliation?
Last edited by spurraider21; 03-08-2021 at 12:33 AM.
My argument is that US muslims, by and large, vote democrat. People don't always vote for the party that espouses their ethical views, but likely for the party they think will do the most for them. This is what many of you younger generation don't seem to get. You instead silo everyone into stereotypes of party affiliation characteristics.
You're the pomp and cir stance leading up to it, the human victory cigar.
i dont wish anything. i legitimately dont understand your position because your posts are all over the place.
My argument is that US muslims, by and large, vote democrat. People don't always vote for the party that espouses their ethical views, but likely for the party they think will do the most for them. This is what many of you younger generation don't seem to get. You instead silo everyone into stereotypes of party affiliation characteristics.
obviously, we are speaking in generality when discussing "US muslims" or "fundamentalist muslims." there's a difference between generalizing and stereotyping
You gave them monolithic belief right before saying they aren't monolithic. Surely even you can see how re ed that was.
Do you think conservatives toss Gays off rooftops? Do conservatives behead people in the streets? What are the similarities between extremist Muslims and conservatives in the US. It was your claim, support it.
Fundamentalist muslims might take issue with being "generalized" as extremist just as a fundamentalist Christian would take issue with being called one.
There are plenty muslim fundamentalists who are not extremists.
i havent used the word extremist once. i said fundamentalist. i havent said anything about throwing gays off rooftops, either. these are your strawmen
you have agreed in this very thread that many muslims share conservative views on social issues, and pew polling on that very data would reveal that those muslims who are more religious are far more likely to hold those views. i dont see how you could possibly disagree that fundamentalist muslims, whether in the US or abroad, have conservative views on social issues.
The thread le clearly says "extremist" and yet you slip in "fundamentalist" as a "generalization" of extremists? I know your game Philo.
You also didn't answer the question. What similarities do conservatives have with muslim fundamentalists?
1st you're the only one who used "fundamentalist" in this thread and the rest has been in reference to your claim. This thread is called "psychological signature of extremists". It's not a coincidence you played that equivocation game.
2nd, you never supported your claim but instead have backpedaled from "fundamentalist" as if you weren't referring to extremism, when I equated US Muslims to fundamentalists.
You're trying to hedge your bets here.
i didnt "slip" anything in. it was a very straightforward, one line post. there wasnt any sneaky language or small print.
i have answered this question. i said muslim fundamentalists are going to hold socially conservative views. i even mockingly cited things like secularism, LGBT rights, abortions as hot-button ones where a fundamentalist muslim would easily be characterized as conservativeYou also didn't answer the question. What similarities do conservatives have with muslim fundamentalists?
I specifically mentioned I was not talking about the radicalized (which I suspect is who you call extremist).
I would put it in terms of orthodox vs non-orthodox Jewish, to give an example. I don't think either group is radicalized/extremist, yet they have a fairly different conception of how to express and abide by their religion.
In my experience, Jewish orthodoxy is a minority of the entire worldwide Jewish population.
This is also the case in the UK, which I think this study is heavily founded on.
My argument is that US muslims, by and large, vote democrat. People don't always vote for the party that espouses their ethical views, but likely for the party they think will do the most for them. This is what many of you younger generation don't seem to get. You instead silo everyone into stereotypes of party affiliation characteristics.
The premise of the study. I tend to agree. But I wouldn't draw the conclusion this is a Republican/MAGA phenomenon. Hence my post "Church of Woke" . Over the past decade conspiracies have formed such as systematic racism and white privilege. Both political parties responded to election defeat by questioning the process.
The line between Conservative and Liberal tactics has never been more blurred in the West. I.E. both play victim, race cards and cancel.
This seems like a completely different thread. Why would you talk about fundamentalists in a thread about extremism, then try to differentiate between US muslims and "over there" muslims as if you weren't calling fundamentalists extremists, while at the same time claiming that US muslims aren't fundamentalists? Did you ignore the articles and the research data? Is your only recourse here to feign confusion?
great. now that we've established that i used the term fundamentalist, then you can limit this side discussion with me to be about fundamentalists. if you wanted to stick to the conversation about extremists, then i wouldnt recommend responding to the one post that said fundamentalist and not extremist.
admittedly, there is significant overlap between who could be considered an extremist and who would be fundamentalist. more specifically, i would say that generally, extremists would be a subset of fundamentalists.
i havent backpedaled anything. i've been 100% consistent this entire time. i made the very simple claim that fundamentalist muslims are conservative. that's it. and then i more specifically said they are socially conservative, and have on multiple occasions cited specific areas.2nd, you never supported your claim but instead have backpedaled from "fundamentalist" as if you weren't referring to extremism, when I equated US Muslims to fundamentalists.
You're trying to hedge your bets here.
obviously, i'm not talking about economic conservatism, as i dont know that there are any economic doctrines inherent to fundamentalist islam
MAGA could be a subset of conservatives. Your game is slipping.
Face it Philo, you tried a subtle troll and got jabbed for it. Lick your wounds and move on.
lets be clear. i said that fundamentalist muslims are conservative
you responded with a pew chart showing that american muslims lean democrat*
elnono then clarified, and i agreed, that i wasnt talking about all american muslims at large (as only a subset of those would be fundamentalist).
*you also then separately went into a tangent about how their leaning democrat doesnt change the fact that they actually are conservative... but then when i asked you outright if you are arguing that american muslims are conservative, your response was "you wish." this is where im legitimately confused by your position. i'm not feigning anything. you cite their being democrat as proving my claim of their conservatism wrong (despite identifying the wrong group)... but then simultaneously said that they ARE conservative despite identifying as democrat
I just don't think it's even close to accurate to characterize US muslims by and large as the fundamentalist type.
But you were willing to accept that they are democratic supporters even if they ideologically lean conservative. You cannot have it both ways, you're just trying to pull out a w.
Conservative political movement isn't the same as religious conservatism via extremism. Maybe you should stop moonlighting as a wannabe troll.
no . they ARE a subset of conservatives. so are fundamentalist muslims.
lol
self-claiming victory is always a good look for you. very derp-like. one step away from starting a thread to declare yourself the spurstalk mvpFace it Philo, you tried a subtle troll and got jabbed for it. Lick your wounds and move on.
You're falsely equating religious conservatism with fiscal conservatism.
lol
ive gone out of my way to specify that i have been talking about social issues exclusively.
You're equating fundamentalist "type" as extremist. One can both believe in fundamental teachings and not be extreme about enforcing it on others. You're allowing room on one side, taking away from the other.
I think in the work force this is correct. But there are alot of extended family in their homes not integrating whatsoever. Only existing within the small sub communities.
Islamic radicalism will begin to increase as the "Muslim travel ban" is lessened
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