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  1. #251
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Giddey jumping all the way to #9 on this one.

    Called another one

  2. #252
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    Only eight teams in the NBA have true franchise players who have stayed with them.
    75% of these players were drafted in the top 10.
    Remaining 25% of these players were drafted after the 14th pick.

    Seven teams currently have borderline franchise players.
    Of these borderline franchise players, 37.5% of them were drafted in the top 12 of the lottery.
    The remaining 62.5% were drafted after.

    Keep in mind: a lot of these teams have drafted in the top 10 for a very long time.

    True franchise players don't grow on trees.

    Good point, i will add Dearon Fox as a borderline FP for sure.

    So if we go with FP or bordeline FP more than half of the franchise have them with the draft. That's the better way to get one.

  3. #253
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    I was reading up on Aaron Nesmith and what's going on with him and found this:

    "This is pretty par for the course for Brad. I think he takes a very college approach of: if he doesn't think you're ready he really won't play you, or definitely not with regularity. He definitely seems to avoid a lot of "developmental minutes" I'd say.
     
    Jaylen was a top 3 pick and averaged 17mpg as a rookie. Rozier is probably the best comp for any of these guys. He averaged 8mpg as a rookie and had tons of DNPs (and most of those minutes came towards the end of the season). The next season he was up to 17mpg and then obviously exploded in the playoffs. Ultimately, I think this is how Brad likes to bring in young players. I don't think it is necessarily a huge reflection on Nesmith other than this is how Brad thinks he can best get him ready for the league?"

    Sound familiar?
    Terry Stotts also an infamous don't play rookies coach. Portland don't even have their own G-League.

  4. #254
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    Only eight teams in the NBA have true franchise players who have stayed with them.
    75% of these players were drafted in the top 10.
    Remaining 25% of these players were drafted after the 14th pick.

    Seven teams currently have borderline franchise players.
    Of these borderline franchise players, 37.5% of them were drafted in the top 12 of the lottery.
    The remaining 62.5% were drafted after.

    Keep in mind: a lot of these teams have drafted in the top 10 for a very long time.

    True franchise players don't grow on trees.

    I’d disagree with Towns, Booker, Mitc , & Young. They are their teams franchise players.

    I’d also add Beal for the Wizards.

    For “boarder line” franchise you can add Fox for Sacramento, Gilchrist Alexander for the Thunder, and Siakum for Toronto (even helped win their only ring).

    Basically, we are on pace to look like the Cavs, Pistons, Magic, And Rockets.

  5. #255
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    I’d disagree with Towns, Booker, Mitc , & Young. They are their teams franchise players.

    I’d also add Beal for the Wizards.

    For “boarder line” franchise you can add Fox for Sacramento, Gilchrist Alexander for the Thunder, and Siakum for Toronto (even helped win their only ring).

    Basically, we are on pace to look like the Cavs, Pistons, Magic, And Rockets.
    Are they the team's franchise player because they have no choice?

    Would anybody build around Donovan Mitc ?

    Trae Young is debatable, sure.

    Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

    I indeed missed out on SGA, Fox, Beal, and Siakam as borderline franchise players.

  6. #256
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    Are they the team's franchise player because they have no choice?

    Would anybody build around Donovan Mitc ?

    Trae Young is debatable, sure.

    Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

    I indeed missed out on SGA, Fox, Beal, and Siakam as borderline franchise players.

    Would anybody build around Donovan Mitc ?

    Yes

    Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

    Yes

  7. #257
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    Would anybody build around Donovan Mitc ?

    Yes

    Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

    Yes
    I suppose so... I guess the way I also look at it is that the true franchise players like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, Doncic all cast a big shadow on a guy like Mitc . To me, they should be a household name. When I think Utah Jazz, I don't immediately think Mitc . I think instead, "That's a good team". I'll revise the table in a little bit.

  8. #258
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    I suppose so... I guess the way I also look at it is that the true franchise players like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, Doncic all cast a big shadow on a guy like Mitc . To me, they should be a household name. When I think Utah Jazz, I don't immediately think Mitc . I think instead, "That's a good team". I'll revise the table in a little bit.
    I get where you're coming from... guys like Jokic and Embiid are definitely better players but, 2/3 of the league would love to build around a DM as their franchise guy... he'd probably have a bigger shadow if he wasn't in Utah as well..

  9. #259
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    Only eight teams in the NBA have true franchise players who have stayed with them.
    75% of these players were drafted in the top 10.
    Remaining 25% of these players were drafted after the 14th pick.

    Seven teams currently have borderline franchise players.
    Of these borderline franchise players, 37.5% of them were drafted in the top 12 of the lottery.
    The remaining 62.5% were drafted after.

    Keep in mind: a lot of these teams have drafted in the top 10 for a very long time.

    True franchise players don't grow on trees.
    If the standard is can they be "the best player on a championship team," the only sure franchise player above is Curry.

    And I don't think there are any in the upcoming draft.

    So it's a tough road, this NBA.

  10. #260
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    Are they the team's franchise player because they have no choice?

    Would anybody build around Donovan Mitc ?

    Trae Young is debatable, sure.

    Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

    I indeed missed out on SGA, Fox, Beal, and Siakam as borderline franchise players.
    If team success is the grounds for your rankings then remove Williamson.

    Everyone has different opinions on how to define a franchise player. For me it is who is selling tickets. Who is the person the crowd goes wild for when they announce that player for the starting lineup.

    BTW it looks like you are irrationally against Mitc for some reason. They did build a team around him and they have the third best chance to win it all this year. Even though Booker only has a 5% chance of winning it is still worlds better than most teams.

  11. #261
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    As a metric for "true franchise player", I would suggest not being far removed (either on the upslope or downslope) of being a realistic MVP candidate. This sorts people like Mitc and Gobert into the Borderline category quite nicely. Neither of them will ever be a serious MVP candidate (Gobert not enough O, Mitc just not good enough by offense only candidate standards).

  12. #262
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    Franchise players: Durant, Harden, Doncic, Jokic, Curry, S bag, Davis, James, Antetokounmpo, Durant, Williamson, Embiid, Lillard.

    8/13 or 61.5% were top 5 picks, two others were just outside and only two were non lottery picks (one being S bag, who went one pick outside of it).

    Borderline (literally, aged out or trending in the direction): Young, Irving, Tatum, Ball, George, Morant, Adebayo, Butler, Towns, Ingram, Gilgeous-Alexander, Simmons, Booker, Paul, Fox, Gobert, Mitc , Beal.

    11/18 or 61.1% were top 5 picks, two others were just outside and only one was a non lottery pick.

    Essentially, you either draft minimally the upper half of the lottery or you're basically hoping to find a needle in a haystack. No matter prior luck/success, deploying that strategy is obviously foolish and arrogant.
    Last edited by TD 21; 04-06-2021 at 04:20 PM.

  13. #263
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    Franchise players: Durant, Harden, Doncic, Jokic, Curry, S bag, Davis, James, Antetokounmpo, Durant, Williamson, Embiid, Lillard.

    8/13 or 61.5% were top 5 picks, two others were just outside and only two were non lottery picks (one being S bag, who went one pick outside of it).

    Borderline (literally, aged out or trending in the direction): Young, Irving, Tatum, Ball, George, Morant, Adebayo, Butler, Towns, Ingram, Gilgeous-Alexander, Simmons, Booker, Paul, Fox, Gobert, Mitc , Beal.

    11/18 or 61.1% were top 5 picks, two others were just outside and only one was a non lottery pick.

    Essentially, you either draft in minimally the upper half of the lottery or you're essentially hoping to find a needle in a haystack. No matter prior luck/success, deploying that strategy is obviously foolish and arrogant.
    TD, I appreciate you for basically repeating what I said but in different words.

    To add to that though:
    LeBron James, 2003
    Kevin Durant, 2007
    Stephen Curry, Harden, 2009
    Kawhi Leonard, 2011
    Anthony Davis, Damien Lillard 2012
    Giannis, 2013
    Jokic, Embiid 2014
    Luka Doncic, 2018
    Zion, 2019

    So 12 "active" franchise players in 2021 since 2003 (18 years).

    Even if you are drafting in the upper half, it is still difficult to find that franchise player. (Don't read what I'm NOT saying. I agree it is much easier to find a franchise player in the upper half)

    IMO, Cade will join this list and he may be the only one.

  14. #264
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    Hey Dejounte what do you think of Vrenz Bleijenbergh a SF - 6'10 for our second round pick?

  15. #265
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    For those Giddy for Giddey


    Alex Kennedy
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    Mar 27
    Meet Josh Giddey, an 18-year-old, ambidextrous, 6'8 point guard who plays professionally in Australia's @NBL. "There is a good chance I'll be declaring for the 2021 draft," @joshgiddey told @MattBab 11. Check out his exclusive Q&A with @basketbllnews: basketballnews.com/stories/nbl-ad…

  16. #266
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    With the Bulls winning today, we're now 3.5 games back of getting the 9th slot in the draft.

  17. #267
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    With the Bulls winning today, we're now 3.5 games back of getting the 9th slot in the draft.
    The Bulls are expected to pass us up with their acquisition of Vucevic.

    The Pelicans keep losing. It does not look like they'll pass us up at all.

    The top 8 teams look locked tight unless the Spurs lose all games the rest of the way.

  18. #268
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    Hey Dejounte what do you think of Vrenz Bleijenbergh a SF - 6'10 for our second round pick?
    Without more signs of advanced ball handling, I think he'll be more of a Bertans-type even with the flashy passing he displays sometimes. As a 2nd rounder, that's not a bad ceiling.

  19. #269
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    The Bulls are expected to pass us up with their acquisition of Vucevic.

    The Pelicans keep losing. It does not look like they'll pass us up at all.

    The top 8 teams look locked tight unless the Spurs lose all games the rest of the way.
    Yeah, getting 8th or better is a pipe dream but 9th is still a possibility. Kings are playing better too at 10th pick now, where we're also 3.5 games back. Getting to 9th gives us a tangible shot at top 4 lottery and a sliver of a shot at winning the lottery.

  20. #270
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    Let's see...

    Which prospects are locked in the top 6 or whatever? Who will fall like Haliburton and Obi Toppin of last year?

    Cade, Mobley will for sure be in the top 3.

    Suggs, Kuminga, and Green likely to go top 5.

    I see Jalen Johnson falling because of his character issues.

    Kispert's advanced metrics are superb, but will he really be drafted in the top 10?

    I feel Barnes will remain in the top 10. Someone will fall in love with his athleticism.

    1. Cade
    2. Mobley
    3. Suggs
    4. Kuminga
    5. Green
    6. Barnes
    7. ?
    8. ?
    9. ?
    10. ?

  21. #271
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    Spurs tank watch update: we're now 3 games back of the 9th slot in the draft.

  22. #272
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    Would the Spurs go for a prospect who has quit on his team three different times?

    So much talent though...

  23. #273
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    Let's see...

    Which prospects are locked in the top 6 or whatever? Who will fall like Haliburton and Obi Toppin of last year?

    Cade, Mobley will for sure be in the top 3.

    Suggs, Kuminga, and Green likely to go top 5.

    I see Jalen Johnson falling because of his character issues.

    Kispert's advanced metrics are superb, but will he really be drafted in the top 10?

    I feel Barnes will remain in the top 10. Someone will fall in love with his athleticism.

    1. Cade
    2. Mobley
    3. Suggs
    4. Kuminga
    5. Green
    6. Barnes
    7. ?
    8. ?
    9. ?
    10. ?
    Mitc and Keon Johnson make the top 10...probably Wagner and Jalen Johnson as well...

    That looks to me like we will get a real player if we can draft in the top 10..

  24. #274
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    Mitc and Keon Johnson make the top 10...probably Wagner and Jalen Johnson as well...

    That looks to me like we will get a real player if we can draft in the top 10..
    That top 10 is much more exciting than last year's top 10, tbh.

  25. #275
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    Mitc and Keon Johnson make the top 10...probably Wagner and Jalen Johnson as well...

    That looks to me like we will get a real player if we can draft in the top 10..
    We'll get the scraps at the 9th or 10th spot, hopefully Wagner.

    Honestly don't want to speak like it's done. This team could win some and we end up with 11th or 12th.

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