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  1. #501
    Believe. longhorn's Avatar
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    RE: Kai Jones

    All-star potential bigs usually produce big numbers in college. The ones that don't become nothing more than role players in the NBA.

    Just because Kai flashed a little bit of a handle doesn't mean he'll become Giannis. Giannis is a freak athlete.

    http://www.tankathon.com/players/com...-anthony-towns

    With that being said, I wouldn't mind having a Nicolas Claxton-type player on this team.
    Like I said in my post, in no universe am I saying or expecting Kai to have a Giannis-level ceiling. I mentioned Giannis because he is a guy who started playing basketball late and was incredibly unrefined, both his skills and body, when the Bucks drafted him. His work ethic and drive to be great allowed him to reach that hidden ceiling. Siakam is another guy who started late and continually improved.

    Now, I don't know if Kai Jones' work ethic is the type necessary for him to unlock his full potential--he improved a lot from freshman to sop re year, which is promising, but there's a lot more improvement needed.

    But he's by all definitions of "freak athlete" a freak athlete if we are looking at his combination of size/athleticism/length, and the skills he flashes, albeit inconsistently.

  2. #502
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    I've been watching more of Tennessee to get a better handle on Keon Johnson. I continue to like him. He's raw, needs a year in the G League and he may never pan out but he is a great athlete with star potential.

    But, surprisingly, the player who caught my eye even more is Johnson's teammate Jaden Springer. I know Dejounte doesn't want to hear about a 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legitimately really intriguing. IIRC, he's the youngest American in the draft. He's 6-foot-4, built like Keldon Johnson and already understands how to use that strength to his advantage. Very good footwork. Shooting stroke isn't the best but he shot 81% at the line and 43.5% on threes, so tough to complain. Defense is where he really shines. Add elite quickness to his strength and he's a terror one-on-one. Also really good team-wise.

    Obviously, the Spurs don't exactly need yet another 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legit. I think he has star upside at some point down the road. If his shooting turns out to be a fluke (which is possible), he could level off as a backup. But there's enough young Chauncey Billups in him that I'd be happy with the Spurs picking him at any spot after 10 or so.

    As my guy TD 21 states, the Spurs don't have anyone good enough to worry about building around at this point. That's why I'd be happy with Springer even though there's no glaring need for him. Besides, he's so much younger than White that they wouldn't even really be in the same generation. Springer would be ready to roll once White is declining.



    On the other side of the coin, the more I watch Scottie Barnes, the less I like. There's a sliver of hope that he figures it all out and becomes a star but there's also a really good chance that he's the next Ekpe Udoh. Udoh was billed as being able to defend every position and being such a good passer that you could ignore his offensively shortcomings. But it turned out he was such a non-factor on offense that you couldn't even put him on the court. Barnes could be in that same boat. He has really good defensive potential but I just don't see what he does on offense. Yeah, his passing looks good on the college level but, in the NBA, you have to be some sort of threat to be a good passer. Barnes' jumper looks broken, he has bad touch in the paint and he's not that amazing of an athlete. I could understand the Spurs gambling on Barnes at 14 or 15 but my expectations wouldn't be that high.
    I'm not against a combo guard (if we think he has star potential) but, we are so heavy there that I'd only really be in favor of it if we move one of our current ones.

    Barnes... spot on...definitely boom or bust but the only boom I see is his athleticism.

  3. #503
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Tankathon has Scotty going #7 to Sacto, so, bust.

  4. #504
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    But, surprisingly, the player who caught my eye even more is Johnson's teammate Jaden Springer. I know Dejounte doesn't want to hear about a 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legitimately really intriguing. IIRC, he's the youngest American in the draft. He's 6-foot-4, built like Keldon Johnson and already understands how to use that strength to his advantage. Very good footwork. Shooting stroke isn't the best but he shot 81% at the line and 43.5% on threes, so tough to complain. Defense is where he really shines. Add elite quickness to his strength and he's a terror one-on-one. Also really good team-wise.

    Obviously, the Spurs don't exactly need yet another 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legit. I think he has star upside at some point down the road. If his shooting turns out to be a fluke (which is possible), he could level off as a backup. But there's enough young Chauncey Billups in him that I'd be happy with the Spurs picking him at any spot after 10 or so.
    Trust me, I've learned my lesson from previous drafts. That is, never to underestimate the Spurs selecting what otherwise looks like a redundant player in the rotation. The year they drafted Keldon, I thought we didn't need another SG since he was so short. I wasn't prepared for the outcome that he is today: a freaking power forward! Last year we drafted Vassell, and I thought there was no way we need another SG when we have Lonnie who looks promising. Little did I know that Lonnie would be a disappearing act all season. However, Lonnie has stepped it up some and even still, there's absolutely room for both if Mills and/or DeMar are gone.

    Saying all that pivoted my way of thinking this season. I'm not going to completely dismiss players because of what possible redundancy they could bring to their rotation; I have indeed checked out some combo guards in this draft, which includes Springer, Bouknight, and Keon. Of the three, I'm impressed with Bouknight the most, but Keon is not half bad either. Who Keon reminds me most is MarShon Brooks. He has excellent footwork, but his 3-point shooting leaves much to be desired. I'm surprised you think Springer has better (or more notable) footwork than Keon. Springer, to me, reminds me of a smaller version of Saddiq Bey. He doesn't look like a fluid athlete, and when he attempts shots near the rim it looks very mechanical. IMO, I think he can become a high quality role player, just not a star.

  5. #505
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    As my guy TD 21 states, the Spurs don't have anyone good enough to worry about building around at this point. That's why I'd be happy with Springer even though there's no glaring need for him. Besides, he's so much younger than White that they wouldn't even really be in the same generation. Springer would be ready to roll once White is declining.
    You've simultaneously confused your followers/my haters by going off brand.


    I'm not against a combo guard (if we think he has star potential) but, we are so heavy there that I'd only really be in favor of it if we move one of our current ones.

    Barnes... spot on...definitely boom or bust but the only boom I see is his athleticism.
    Not as heavy as the perception. Murray and White are entrenched, but DeRozan is almost certainly a goner, Mills could be if he prefers a contender or pseudo one and though the book isn't closed on Walker IV, it's probably unlikely that he receives an extension.

    Even if Mills decides to stay, he'll be entering his age 33 season. Sooner than later they're going to have to start grooming a viable replacement.

    They're also just flat not good enough to stray from perceived BPA. Pick whoever that is and sort it out later.

  6. #506
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Trust me, I've learned my lesson from previous drafts. That is, never to underestimate the Spurs selecting what otherwise looks like a redundant player in the rotation. The year they drafted Keldon, I thought we didn't need another SG since he was so short. I wasn't prepared for the outcome that he is today: a freaking power forward! Last year we drafted Vassell, and I thought there was no way we need another SG when we have Lonnie who looks promising. Little did I know that Lonnie would be a disappearing act all season. However, Lonnie has stepped it up some and even still, there's absolutely room for both if Mills and/or DeMar are gone.

    Saying all that pivoted my way of thinking this season. I'm not going to completely dismiss players because of what possible redundancy they could bring to their rotation; I have indeed checked out some combo guards in this draft, which includes Springer, Bouknight, and Keon. Of the three, I'm impressed with Bouknight the most, but Keon is not half bad either. Who Keon reminds me most is MarShon Brooks. He has excellent footwork, but his 3-point shooting leaves much to be desired. I'm surprised you think Springer has better (or more notable) footwork than Keon. Springer, to me, reminds me of a smaller version of Saddiq Bey. He doesn't look like a fluid athlete, and when he attempts shots near the rim it looks very mechanical. IMO, I think he can become a high quality role player, just not a star.
    You couldn’t find a better comp than Marshon Brooks? He played only 200 games, and was out of the league for long stretches. He also the trivia answer to which player first confused the PHO front office when confronted by two with the same last name. They wanted Dillon, but accidentally asked for Marshon. When they were told NO for Dillon, the trade fell through. I’m more convinced after watching the last PHO game that they accidentally drafted Cameron Johnson with their lottery pick instead of Keldon. Right after the draft, they talked to one of Cam’s UNC teammates, who was genuinely shocked that he was picked in the lottery.

  7. #507
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    You couldnít find a better comp than Marshon Brooks? He played only 200 games, and was out of the league for long stretches. He also the trivia answer to which player first confused the PHO front office when confronted by two with the same last name. They wanted Dillon, but accidentally asked for Marshon. When they were told NO for Dillon, the trade fell through. Iím more convinced after watching the last PHO game that they accidentally drafted Cameron Johnson with their lottery pick instead of Keldon. Right after the draft, they talked to one of Camís UNC teammates, who was genuinely shocked that he was picked in the lottery.
    I had no memory of how his career went, and was strictly comparing playstyle, but thank you for that entertaining post.

    I remember being fond of MarShon's footwork way back when; it was obvious that he was influenced by Kobe. I have that same fondness now when I watch clips of Keon score.

    For reference:

    Last edited by Dejounte; 04-20-2021 at 06:07 PM.

  8. #508
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/HBIENrGNxmI

    NBA Draft Junkies focus on international prospects.

    Unicorn Alert, the year's Poku, Vrenz Bleijenbergh: https://youtu.be/ToRQmA9bBz4

    I've never heard of this guy yet. Our pick would be a reach. But would love to grab him in the second round if he's still around.

    Edit: I realized I don't know how to embed a youtube video. Lol. So this post will likely get passed, but this guy is intriguing. 6'11" point forward.
    Last edited by The Truth #6; 04-20-2021 at 06:16 PM.

  9. #509
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    I've been watching more of Tennessee to get a better handle on Keon Johnson. I continue to like him. He's raw, needs a year in the G League and he may never pan out but he is a great athlete with star potential.

    But, surprisingly, the player who caught my eye even more is Johnson's teammate Jaden Springer. I know Dejounte doesn't want to hear about a 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legitimately really intriguing. IIRC, he's the youngest American in the draft. He's 6-foot-4, built like Keldon Johnson and already understands how to use that strength to his advantage. Very good footwork. Shooting stroke isn't the best but he shot 81% at the line and 43.5% on threes, so tough to complain. Defense is where he really shines. Add elite quickness to his strength and he's a terror one-on-one. Also really good team-wise.

    Obviously, the Spurs don't exactly need yet another 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legit. I think he has star upside at some point down the road. If his shooting turns out to be a fluke (which is possible), he could level off as a backup. But there's enough young Chauncey Billups in him that I'd be happy with the Spurs picking him at any spot after 10 or so.

    As my guy TD 21 states, the Spurs don't have anyone good enough to worry about building around at this point. That's why I'd be happy with Springer even though there's no glaring need for him. Besides, he's so much younger than White that they wouldn't even really be in the same generation. Springer would be ready to roll once White is declining.



    On the other side of the coin, the more I watch Scottie Barnes, the less I like. There's a sliver of hope that he figures it all out and becomes a star but there's also a really good chance that he's the next Ekpe Udoh. Udoh was billed as being able to defend every position and being such a good passer that you could ignore his offensively shortcomings. But it turned out he was such a non-factor on offense that you couldn't even put him on the court. Barnes could be in that same boat. He has really good defensive potential but I just don't see what he does on offense. Yeah, his passing looks good on the college level but, in the NBA, you have to be some sort of threat to be a good passer. Barnes' jumper looks broken, he has bad touch in the paint and he's not that amazing of an athlete. I could understand the Spurs gambling on Barnes at 14 or 15 but my expectations wouldn't be that high.

    I like Johnson potential too, i did not watch a lot springer cause he's a PG.

    About Barnes he is a project so i'm with you, what i see in him is the physical potential, really long legs and can defend a lot of positions plus the passing capacity. I think his passing is pretty good and he can adjust to the NBA. Offensively i have the same doubts.

  10. #510
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Another intriguing prospect, 6’9” point guard from Nebraska, Dalano Banton. Initially I thought he was a point forward, but he seems to be their actual point guard. A player whose skills and size would definitely be useful on the Spurs. I love his vision and freaky size. As before, not saying he should be our lottery pick, but I’d consider him as someone for the second round if he lasts that long.

    https://youtu.be/noX20zsXhRg

  11. #511
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    Unicorn Alert, the year's Poku, Vrenz Bleijenbergh: https://youtu.be/ToRQmA9bBz4

    I've never heard of this guy yet. Our pick would be a reach. But would love to grab him in the second round if he's still around.

    Edit: I realized I don't know how to embed a youtube video. Lol. So this post will likely get passed, but this guy is intriguing. 6'11" point forward.
    Yep, he is interesting I think he is almost close to 40% from 3 if I am not mistaken - I like his at ude always wanting a challenge and wants to be the best add to it he has been playing since he was like 4 years old I would have no problems drafting him him in the second

  12. #512
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    One thing I have noticed is that in the second round they are A LOT of good players - I seriously think you might have more then a handful of players drafted in the second round that will have better careers then those drafted in the first - They are some really good SF/PF in the second round that I think could easily make and stay with the team in the range we might draft at

  13. #513
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Saying all that pivoted my way of thinking this season. I'm not going to completely dismiss players because of what possible redundancy they could bring to their rotation; I have indeed checked out some combo guards in this draft, which includes Springer, Bouknight, and Keon. Of the three, I'm impressed with Bouknight the most
    I've only seen a little bit of Bouknight but he looks like he could be a quality bulk scorer. I've put watching more of him on the backburner because of this:

    https://www.nhregister.com/uconn/art...n-14557251.php

    Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but would that be enough for the Spurs to disqualify drafting him? It's possible, IMO.

  14. #514
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Jesus, what an uplifting comment by Kerr
    Iíve seen statements from him where they arenít discounting him from being available for the right player. The clock is ticking on Curry (who knows how Klay will be when he comes back even?) but what they have isnít enough to contend. I think they would move him for a win now player, but I bet they will be particular about who they would move him for.

    Wiseman also got injured and his season is over (I wasnít aware of this previously myself but have been getting up to speed on whatís up around the NBA lately.) In that same statement Kerr tries to hype him up saying heís a generational type player etc, he just doesnít match their window. I never saw him play myself.

  15. #515
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Wiseman was terrible this season, tbh. As I wrote previously, he was Golden State's tank commander. His highlights looked good but he was clueless. Warriors locked their spot in the play-in tournament when Wiseman's meniscus snapped.

    Another rookie who has been much worse than his highlights has been Patrick Williams. No one wants to admit it but he doesn't look that good and he's a big reason why the Bulls are flailing. His true position appears to be power forward but he's a bad rebounder so they've tried to shoehorn him as a SF. It's not working, tbh. He's not quick enough to defend perimeter players and he doesn't shoot enough threes to space the court on the other end. Williams is still really young so he has a chance to turn it around but he belongs in that same Wiseman category right now.
    I appreciate reviews like this that help me catch up. Jumping in to watch the NBA at the end of the regular season, I never got to see him...

    I have wondered why the Bulls have gotten worse post the Vucevic trade (or maybe they have been pretty bad almost uninterruptedly.)

  16. #516
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    If that was the case, we would have ended up with Nassir Little and not Keldon Johnson
    Well they gambled with Luka who was the higher pick... turns out Kelvin has been more productive than their higher pick that year though the potential emails high. But this point also lends support to the other one made in this thread that bigs with potential tend to flash numbers to back up that potential (which Luke didnít and came in with a bad rep from his euro team)...

    then again, MVPJokic didnít look like MVPJokic at 18. He was a fat tall kid who wasnít sure he wanted to play compe ively until he matured a bit.

  17. #517
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I've admitted I was wrong about Vassell. The book isn't closed for Jalen but after recognizing the trend where the NBA is heading, my draft philosophy has shifted to 1) acknowledging wings are more valuable than bigs today and 2) mobility from your bigs is extremely important. Seeing how Wiseman has performed this season has soured me on these unicorn type bigs. The NBA has simply passed bigs by.

    You're free to have your opinion. I responded with a "yes" to your "no" because you didn't say much in response to my post.
    The most important positions in this era are the small forward and point guard. In the 90s and into the 00s it was the big man and shooting guard.

  18. #518
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    It's really difficult to draft top players nowadays. Wiseman shows why. Ayton, Bagley. You barely see players long enough in college -- or the analogue -- to have any idea of who you have. I call it the Calipari effect -- churn one-and-dones, toss them into the NBA, move on. Few of these players learn much more than a lick of basketball before getting drafted and now you have the trend of skipping college entirely. (Which is why Keldon is such a surprise.)

    Doncic, Ja, Zion... Every era has its surprises. Paul Pierce dropped on draft day, for example. But now, knowing what to do is remarkably hard. The Warriors are a good franchise, but who was the right pick last year? Not even Halliburton is that great.

    Walt Frazier was talking about how back in his day, a guy just drafted was expected to be a pro already, to be able to contribute. Now? It's a messy process. Almost every player will take years.

  19. #519
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    Yeah I kinda agree a lot of the top 10 are based on the word "Potential" and that world has gotten a lot of GM's fired - But then again a lot of these teams that are drafting in the top 10 have some really bad owners/GM's - But I think when your in top 7 you don't have a lot of wiggle room as everyone pretty much told the world who you need to draft if you don't and the player you select does not work well kiss your job goodbye.

    Right know looking at the draft as far as talent not much difference in the range of 11 - 18 so I am confident that will find a good player where we draft. But looking at the draft if we pick best available player it will probably be a SG/PG not sure if they do this but would not be surprised if this happens

  20. #520
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    It's really difficult to draft top players nowadays. Wiseman shows why. Ayton, Bagley. You barely see players long enough in college -- or the analogue -- to have any idea of who you have. I call it the Calipari effect -- churn one-and-dones, toss them into the NBA, move on. Few of these players learn much more than a lick of basketball before getting drafted and now you have the trend of skipping college entirely. (Which is why Keldon is such a surprise.)

    Doncic, Ja, Zion... Every era has its surprises. Paul Pierce dropped on draft day, for example. But now, knowing what to do is remarkably hard. The Warriors are a good franchise, but who was the right pick last year? Not even Halliburton is that great.

    Walt Frazier was talking about how back in his day, a guy just drafted was expected to be a pro already, to be able to contribute. Now? It's a messy process. Almost every player will take years.
    With skill being so important, and young players typically lacking in skill, and not sticking with small market teams longterm, drafting players who are more developed has a logic and is an undervalued market. Sure, less superstar potential with a 23-year old, but the Spurs take so long to play their young players, so to speak, I wonder if drafting older players makes more sense. Flipside is that small market teams also need to gamble on high ceiling players to have any chance at finding a superstar. So, basically, it’s really hard being a small market team.

  21. #521
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I've only seen a little bit of Bouknight but he looks like he could be a quality bulk scorer. I've put watching more of him on the backburner because of this:

    https://www.nhregister.com/uconn/art...n-14557251.php

    Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but would that be enough for the Spurs to disqualify drafting him? It's possible, IMO.
    It depends on the interview. Holt, RC, and Pop all have a strong relationship with alcohol, so perhaps a little humility from him in the interview might actually endear him to them. Sort of joking but also not really.

  22. #522
    Believe. Trueblood's Avatar
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    That's assuming teams want to take their picks to move down. If they can't find a trade partner, they have to lose value and trade them for future protected picks. The Thunder finding trade partners for equal value is not guaranteed.
    I don't disagree with you completely, but I think you're forgetting another option. They can also use those picks to get raw international talent and let it draft and stash. If even one of those players turns into a Ginobili or even a Splitter you're doing good. For a small market team having draft and stash players is good because
    1) international players are more likely to stay and
    2) they don't have as much money so it saves them to let them develop overseas
    OKC can always go that route if they don't find a partner.

  23. #523
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with you completely, but I think you're forgetting another option. They can also use those picks to get raw international talent and let it draft and stash. If even one of those players turns into a Ginobili or even a Splitter you're doing good. For a small market team having draft and stash players is good because
    1) international players are more likely to stay and
    2) they don't have as much money so it saves them to let them develop overseas
    OKC can always go that route if they don't find a partner.
    Two things: intl draft and stash with first rounders hasn’t been a thing for awhile, and the player has to agree in a letter that he will stay overseas for some period of time.

    You can’t force the issue. Without the letter, the player is within their rights to report, and demand their guaranteed first round contract. If you fail to offer it, he becomes an immediate FA.

  24. #524
    Believe. longhorn's Avatar
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    Another intriguing prospect, 6í9Ē point guard from Nebraska, Dalano Banton. Initially I thought he was a point forward, but he seems to be their actual point guard. A player whose skills and size would definitely be useful on the Spurs. I love his vision and freaky size. As before, not saying he should be our lottery pick, but Iíd consider him as someone for the second round if he lasts that long.

    https://youtu.be/noX20zsXhRg
    I remember more or less liking what I saw from him in a couple Nebraska games I watched. Apparently he grew like 4 inches since high school, and his game reflects that--he's a gigantic point guard.

    Biggest issue with Banton for me would be his shooting. He has an incredibly slow release, and he doesn't have good percentages (41.1% FG / 24.7% 3PT / 65.9% FT). For a guy who was recruited out of high school as a 4-star 6'5 PG, he really should have more of a mid-range/3pt game than he does. He's going to need to spend a lot of time with Chip Engelland.

    He also needs to get stronger, but since he had a late growth spurt, I'm less concerned about that being unfixable than I am his woeful shooting.

    He's a fun boom/bust second rounder if they want a project who will need a lot of time in Austin, but has some nice traits to work with.

  25. #525
    Believe. LCM's Avatar
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    Gui Santos - Brazilian. ESPN just did a write up on him. #33 in their evaluation for 2022 draft, but he's putting paperwork in for this draft. Overseas restrictions on travel are loosening, more scouts are seeing him play.

    18 yrs old, 6'8 215lbs G/F 7'1 wingspan. Just from the clips I've seen, can hit the 3, can initiate an offense, can lead the break. Can play off the ball, corner 3 position, move and cut to the rim. Not afraid to stick his nose in and rebound, will go for offensive put back tips or dunks. Defensively a bit slow with footwork, but he works to stay with his man and his wingspan gives him the ability for steals and blocks. He needs better discipline or he'll get cheap fouls, but he works on D.

    Clips I've seen are him playing with national team or pro team he's playing with now, looks like HS gyms. But, WHY is ESPN talking about this guy NOW. There has to be talk of him being a possible 1st round pick in this draft, just on his age and measurables alone, for him to be putting in paperwork for this draft. And there is plenty of time between now and the draft to do homework on him.

    Has anyone heard of this guy??

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