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  1. #976
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    And people said he couldn't pass.

    My comps for Sengun are sort of ridiculous, but: 1/3 Gasol, 1/3 Ed Nealy, and 1/3 Adrian Dantley.

  2. #977
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    To me, Sengun is an automatic take if he's there are 11/12... He's got more than a little Manu in him on D as well as passing - look at some of those flops to draw O fouls...

  3. #978
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Who is this year's Obi Toppin?

    Someone who posted gaudy stats, and exhibited elite athleticism in college but looks like a bust now? Quite a few people here thought he was a sure thing to be a star in the NBA, some even wanted to trade up for him.

    What lesson can we learn from Obi and apply to this year's draft?

  4. #979
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Sometimes, I find the draft more entertaining than the actual NBA season. I say that even if the Spurs were doing well. There's just something about the process of learning about each prospect, and watching them blossom in the league that appeals to me. Anyone else feel the same way about finding enjoyment in the draft like I do?

  5. #980
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    Giddey/Sengun are two of my favorite prospects, wouldnt mind if the spurs tried to grab another pick and get Usman Garuba too lol spurs are in a great spot to get a good player! I like all of the top 15 prospects right now

  6. #981
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    Sometimes, I find the draft more entertaining than the actual NBA season. I say that even if the Spurs were doing well. There's just something about the process of learning about each prospect, and watching them blossom in the league that appeals to me. Anyone else feel the same way about finding enjoyment in the draft like I do?
    Same Bro! The draft + Summer league are my favorite parts of the NBA calendar

  7. #982
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    Sometimes, I find the draft more entertaining than the actual NBA season. I say that even if the Spurs were doing well. There's just something about the process of learning about each prospect, and watching them blossom in the league that appeals to me. Anyone else feel the same way about finding enjoyment in the draft like I do?

    you saw us in this thread talking about the draft since a lot of weeks lol so we like the process

    for me, this is one of the best thing in basketball : watching some prospects, evaluate them ... i really enjoy it.

  8. #983
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    Who is this year's Obi Toppin?

    Someone who posted gaudy stats, and exhibited elite athleticism in college but looks like a bust now? Quite a few people here thought he was a sure thing to be a star in the NBA, some even wanted to trade up for him.

    What lesson can we learn from Obi and apply to this year's draft?
    i don't see a good comp for toppin in this draft , i was not a big fan of him last year : playing in a weak division, already 22 yrs old.

  9. #984
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Who is this year's Obi Toppin?

    Someone who posted gaudy stats, and exhibited elite athleticism in college but looks like a bust now? Quite a few people here thought he was a sure thing to be a star in the NBA, some even wanted to trade up for him.

    What lesson can we learn from Obi and apply to this year's draft?
    I think there will be a good number of Obi Toppins in this year's draft.

  10. #985
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Yesterday's game:

    This video has good examples of what makes Sengun interesting and also examples of why I'm still iffy about him.

    The good: He's coordinated, good athlete on the move, good feel for the game, good flexibility. It's easy to see why he's highly productive. Live I've said previously, I could understand picking him just based on the assumption that he's so productive at such an early age that he's bound to figure it out in the NBA.

    The bad: Feet would be considered slow in the NBA. As power forwards get smaller and quicker, I just can't imagine that Sengun is anything but a center, especially when projecting down the road. Also worrisome is that he doesn't have much bounce when stationary and also doesn't have much length. That's a tough combo to overcome, especially for a big who hasn't proven to be a perimeter shooter. At the 0:32 mark and the 3:09 mark, that's Sengun getting stonewalled by 6-foot-7, 225-pound Jeremy Simmons. That's ... not good for a player whose main attribute right now is being an interior scorer.

    He's a tough, tough call, IMO. What adds to his intrigue is he was fat just a few months ago so his athleticism is still a work in progress and there's likely some untapped potential in that regard. I don't think he'll rise too high in my Big Board because I don't believe in the value of undersized centers without provable three-point range and who project to be subpar defenders. That archetype just doesn't hold enough value for me to get behind. Sengun's path to being a truly valuable player is narrow -- more narrow than you want when drafting in the lottery. But, again, there are enough glimpses that I wouldn't be mad if the Spurs pick him with the hope that he's still an improving, moldable project who will learn to adapt.

  11. #986
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    This video has good examples of what makes Sengun interesting and also examples of why I'm still iffy about him.

    The good: He's coordinated, good athlete on the move, good feel for the game, good flexibility. It's easy to see why he's highly productive. Live I've said previously, I could understand picking him just based on the assumption that he's so productive at such an early age that he's bound to figure it out in the NBA.

    The bad: Feet would be considered slow in the NBA. As power forwards get smaller and quicker, I just can't imagine that Sengun is anything but a center, especially when projecting down the road. Also worrisome is that he doesn't have much bounce when stationary and also doesn't have much length. That's a tough combo to overcome, especially for a big who hasn't proven to be a perimeter shooter. At the 0:32 mark and the 3:09 mark, that's Sengun getting stonewalled by 6-foot-7, 225-pound Jeremy Simmons. That's ... not good for a player whose main attribute right now is being an interior scorer.

    He's a tough, tough call, IMO. What adds to his intrigue is he was fat just a few months ago so his athleticism is still a work in progress and there's likely some untapped potential in that regard. I don't think he'll rise too high in my Big Board because I don't believe in the value of undersized centers without provable three-point range and who project to be subpar defenders. That archetype just doesn't hold enough value for me to get behind. Sengun's path to being a truly valuable player is narrow -- more narrow than you want when drafting in the lottery. But, again, there are enough glimpses that I wouldn't be mad if the Spurs pick him with the hope that he's still an improving, moldable project who will learn to adapt.
    About the bad, i agree he is a center , not undersized in todays nba ( could really be a 6'10 ).
    When you talk about getting stonewalled by jeremy simmons , imo there is two things to notice : the first is unlike a lot of prospects he is playing against old mens who are physical, secondly that's not a concern because he did not rely on his body to score, he did not need to bulk players down low but he scores due to his footwork, IQ and touch around the rim. Imo that will translate in the NBA.

  12. #987
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    The more I go over tape, the more confusing the draft gets, tbh. After the fifth pick, every player is either painfully flawed or has a low ceiling.

    -After watching more of Tennessee, I'm lower on Keon Johnson and Springer. Johnson is really athletic but he has the skills of a PF in the body of a SG. His road to being a productive player is longer than I originally thought. Springer is solid but I'm now unconvinced he has the athleticism to be a starting PG. I'd be okay with the Spurs picking Keon. I wouldn't be super excited but I could understand the gamble on his elite athleticism. Springer in the lottery? Ehh, don't think I could behind that.

    -Other players who are being mocked high who I wouldn't want the Spurs to pick in the lottery: Davion Mitc (don't buy his shot, stock is way too inflated right now), Isaiah Jackson (run and jump bigs are dime a dozen), Garuba (awesome defensive prospect but his offense is too far away), Dosunmu (Spurs-y character kid but too small and too unathletic).

    -Of the international prospects, I like Giddey the best ... but I could understand passing on him. At the end of the day, he's a subpar athlete, subpar shooter and a subpar defender ... and that's tough to overcome as a prospect. His passing is good but some of his assists where he holds the ball 30 feet from the basket, stands in the pocket like Tom Brady and fires passes to the interior might work in Australia but won't work in the NBA. The fit on the Spurs is also suspect. If they passed on Haliburton, why would they pick Giddey? And since Giddey projects to most likely be a role player in the NBA, picking him isn't even much of a swing for the fences. Gambling to hope he turns into Ingles 2.0 doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a Spurs team that lacks a franchise player.

    -I'm still relatively low on Sengun. Awesome production but he's the exact archetype that you don't want: an undersized center who will probably be a 4.5 because he's too slow to defend the perimeter and isn't a three-point shooter. His production is impressive enough that I wouldn't hate the Spurs picking him ... but, man, it's difficult to imagine how he fits in today's NBA. That said, unlike Giddey, Sengun does have a path to s om, I think. There's a chance that he's just so productive that he'll figure it out one way or another.

    -There aren't any other internationals I'd want the Spurs to consider in the lottery. I was intrigued by Roko but the more I watch, the more I think he's not athletic enough to warrant a lottery pick.

    -Players on my don't-love-it-but-I-understand-the-pick tier: Barnes, Wagner, Kispert. I think Barnes has a deceptively low floor and will probably end up being a center in the NBA but if he puts it all together, he has star upside as a perimeter player -- so that'd be intriguing enough. Wagner doesn't have a high ceiling but he should be a solid role player who makes players around him better ... and that's a trait the Spurs could use right now. Kispert is the best shooting prospect in the draft. The Spurs obviously need shooting so if they pick Kispert, I'd have to reluctantly nod in approval.

    -My interest is waning on Kai Jones. His floor is just so unbelievably low that it'd be tough to pull the trigger on him with a lottery pick. I guess the Spurs can pick him if they think the Samanic project is dead and they want to press the reset button and try again. But, even then, do you really want to use a lottery pick on a guy who's most likely positive outcome is as a rim-running big? Sure, there's that 0.001% chance he becomes a poor man's Giannis but even Samanic was a much more complete player entering the draft.

    -I think the only zero hesitation pick in the late lottery for me right now would be Moody. Three-and-D floor with enough upside (mostly due to the rate at which he draws fouls) to easily justify a lottery pick. The only worry from the Spurs perspective would be the complete overlap between Vassell and Moody. But, then again, those types of players are valuable and you can never have too many.

    -Players in my f-it-let's-just-pick-someone-who-will-stick-in-the-NBA tier: Jared Butler, Chris Duarte. Drafting either in the lottery would be tooooooooooough but if the Spurs can't trade back, don't believe in any of the projects and just want a safe player who'd be ready to play on Day 1, those would be the two guys.

    -Three players I think the Spurs need to consider who look like anti-Spurs on paper: Bouknight, Ziaire Williams, Jalen Johnson. Bouknight had some legal issues in college but it looks like he has the it-factor when it comes to being a scorer. Ziaire was terrible at Stanford but he was a top ten recruit. A 6-foot-8 perimeter player who shows flashes of scoring, playmaking and elite athleticism? In this draft, you can honestly justify picking him anywhere outside of the top five, even though he was hot garbage as a freshman. Jalen Johnson has some character red flags but I'm not even sure those red flags are serious. Hopping from high school to high school and quitting on Duke? Yeah, who cares, tbh? Amateur hoops is a dirty, exploitive world. If you interview him and do your research and he seems like a good kid, I'd look past those supposed red flags. A 6-foot-9 big, physical wing who can handle the ball, pass, rebound and cause havoc on defense with multiple avenues to being really good? Sounds good to me.

    All told, the players who have my eye most right now are Moody, Jalen Johnson, Wagner and Kispert -- with Giddey and Ziaire gaining momentum.
    Another "Anti-Spur" who probably needs to be considered is Cam Thomas. Didn't like him at first because he plays zero defense, doesn't pass unless he has to and is a B- athlete at best. But he can score. He's a natural-born bulk scorer -- and that's something the Spurs could use, especially if they're not re-signing DeRozan. Thomas averaging 20 points per game isn't difficult to imagine at all. The question with him will never be scoring, it'll be whether he ever becomes a willing passer or can be convinced to play defense.

    To put his scoring in perspective, he's the all-time leading scorer at Oak Hill -- the basketball factory that produced Keldon Johnson and before him a long list of highly productive scorers including Carmelo Anthony, Jerry Stackhouse, Stephen Jackson, Ron Mercer, Brandon Jennings, etc, etc. Then he went to LSU and averaged 23 points as a freshman. LSU got to the second round of the tournament, so his production wasn't completely empty -- even though his passing and defense never improved.

    Thomas wouldn't normally be someone I'd think the Spurs should consider ... but this draft is weird and the late lottery will very likely require a rather large gamble to be taken. Gambling on a top tier scorer makes an extra amount of sense for these Spurs.

  13. #988
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Cam Thomas. That would be an interesting test of Brian Wright’s goal, at least last year, of focusing on defense. I could still see them going for Garuba for some reason. But honestly, whoever they pick is going to have some amount of question marks. A disappointing pick would be Kispert so I’m preparing for that as well.

  14. #989
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    About Sengun athletism and how he is slow footed, i remember having the same impression of Isaiah Stewart last year.
    Stewart is stronger( longer wingspan also at 7'4 vs 7'1, nearly the same height) than Alperen but he is not an elite athlet and he was pretty good during his first year in the league.

    If Alperen could gain some mass without losing speed, i have no doubt on his ability to be hard to handle inside.

  15. #990
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    About Sengun athletism and how he is slow footed, i remember having the same impression of Isaiah Stewart last year.
    Stewart is stronger( longer wingspan also at 7'4 vs 7'1, nearly the same height) than Alperen but he is not an elite athlet and he was pretty good during his first year in the league.

    If Alperen could gain some mass without losing speed, i have no doubt on his ability to be hard to handle inside.
    It will be interesting to see how his development is approached by whoever gets him. It's possible teams try to get him to lose weight to gain speed at the expense of power and mass because he's already pretty strong. He's not going to get force fed the ball down low, so he'll have to start out with being some type of role player that has to get by on his feel for the game and making good quick decisions, at least I would think.

    I think everyone is going to have to realize that even if we pick at 11, there is no obvious foundational piece available or even best player available—that seems really subjective for this draft. Unfortunately, I think we're looking at team need (as TiVMP hinted at with scoring and Cam Thomas), or possibly even passing with Giddey, or shooting with Kispert, et cetera...unless Brian Wright has a vision for what he is trying to build, and then he'll follow that accordingly.

  16. #991
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    It will be interesting to see how his development is approached by whoever gets him. It's possible teams try to get him to lose weight to gain speed at the expense of power and mass because he's already pretty strong. He's not going to get force fed the ball down low, so he'll have to start out with being some type of role player that has to get by on his feel for the game and making good quick decisions, at least I would think.

    I think everyone is going to have to realize that even if we pick at 11, there is no obvious foundational piece available or even best player available—that seems really subjective for this draft. Unfortunately, I think we're looking at team need (as TiVMP hinted at with scoring and Cam Thomas), or possibly even passing with Giddey, or shooting with Kispert, et cetera...unless Brian Wright has a vision for what he is trying to build, and then he'll follow that accordingly.
    You may be right it could be interesting for him to slim down or lose some body fat. He will be quicker if he goes that way.

    And yes not easy to see who will/could be the best pick at 11/12. Depends on what Spurs will value.

  17. #992
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Sometimes, I find the draft more entertaining than the actual NBA season. I say that even if the Spurs were doing well. There's just something about the process of learning about each prospect, and watching them blossom in the league that appeals to me. Anyone else feel the same way about finding enjoyment in the draft like I do?
    I do. Although in recent years I scout less and less, I used to watch more video in the past. I just don’t have as much time and other interests call my attention. I still really like to learn about them and read scouting impressions. If someone is hyped or recommended I’ll watch highlights. I like guys who can pass the ball well and have high IQ, but I was also a fan of Murray for his athleticism and fearlessness... I like all kinds .. that’s probably my problem as a scout, I don’t necessarily discriminate, so I don’t get too worried about it anymore... I will say this regardless of position the Spurs need a deadeye shooter, preferably one who can shoot off movement... anyone like that here?

    I also enjoy watching summer league btw and did even when the Spurs were competing for les. I like to watch players evolve, develop and grow. Looking forward to see our own Samanic in SL, hopefully his hand is ready.

  18. #993
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    ... At the 0:32 mark and the 3:09 mark, that's Sengun getting stonewalled by 6-foot-7, 225-pound Jeremy Simmons. That's ... not good for a player whose main attribute right now is being an interior scorer.
    ...
    Odd definition of stonewall you got there. He made both buckets (admittedly the second off getting his own rebound). At 0:32, Simmons's feet are at the edge of the lane. At 0:35-36, Sengun is shooting and Simmons's feet are in the circle. 3:09 is less clearcut. Simmons starts in the circle, and Sengun bumps him back about a foot as he goes up on the initial shot. That knock back lets Sengun get his own board, and then he pulls a spin move ...

  19. #994
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    ...

    And yes not easy to see who will/could be the best pick at 11/12. Depends on what Spurs will value.
    What the Spurs need is glaring. #30 in the league in 3ptrs made.

    Field goals made, better than average, #11.

    Free throws made, better than average, #9.

    Total rebounds, a little below average, #18.

    Assists, average, #16.

    Avoiding turnovers, excellent, #2.

    Steals, below average; blocks, above average; avoiding personal fouls, well above average, etc.

    But 3pt shots made, dead last. The team needs long range shooters - who are not hopeless on defense.

  20. #995
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    What the Spurs need is glaring. #30 in the league in 3ptrs made.

    Field goals made, better than average, #11.

    Free throws made, better than average, #9.

    Total rebounds, a little below average, #18.

    Assists, average, #16.

    Avoiding turnovers, excellent, #2.

    Steals, below average; blocks, above average; avoiding personal fouls, well above average, etc.

    But 3pt shots made, dead last. The team needs long range shooters - who are not hopeless on defense.
    Great breakdown. 3 pt shots made is the first stat I look in games I didn’t watch and the lost, attempted is second. There’s games they barely made 3-4 threes. Where did you pull your breakdown from?

  21. #996
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    What the Spurs need is glaring. #30 in the league in 3ptrs made. . . .

    But 3pt shots made, dead last. The team needs long range shooters - who are not hopeless on defense.
    That's the devil's dilemma -- the guys with the best three-point shooting are also generally the ones with lesser upsides.

    So to address the team's most immediate need through the draft may ignore the team's bigger-picture need -- more upside talent.

    No great answer to this. (However, the Spurs are pretty good at teaching shooting, other desirable attributes seem less teachable.)

  22. #997
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    Great breakdown. 3 pt shots made is the first stat I look in games I didn’t watch and the lost, attempted is second. There’s games they barely made 3-4 threes. Where did you pull your breakdown from?
    Stats from here:

    https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/trad...rt=FG3M&dir=-1

  23. #998
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  24. #999
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    That's the devil's dilemma -- the guys with the best three-point shooting are also generally the ones with lesser upsides.

    So to address the team's most immediate need through the draft may ignore the team's bigger-picture need -- more upside talent.

    No great answer to this. (However, the Spurs are pretty good at teaching shooting, other desirable attributes seem less teachable.)
    There are some 1-dimensional shooters available in the second round; that would be my preference over drafting Kispert with their first pick, basically.

  25. #1000
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    There are some 1-dimensional shooters available in the second round; that would be my preference over drafting Kispert with their first pick, basically.
    I would agree. Kispert pretty much disappeared against Baylor's NBA-like athletes.

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