Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

[Mr. Body]

I would agree. Kispert pretty much disappeared against Baylor's NBA-like athletes.

Someone's gonna bite on Kispert and make a mistake. Teams get into a group-think and talk certain players up. Meanwhile, Gonzaga players aren't generally that great anyway. They get a lot of press beating up on their ty conference.

[timvp]

What the Spurs need is glaring. #30 in the league in 3ptrs made.

Field goals made, better than average, #11.

Free throws made, better than average, #9.

Total rebounds, a little below average, #18.

Assists, average, #16.

Avoiding turnovers, excellent, #2.

Steals, below average; blocks, above average; avoiding personal fouls, well above average, etc.

But 3pt shots made, dead last. The team needs long range shooters - who are not hopeless on defense.

I'm not a huge Kispert fan but I like him better than I liked Nesmith, who was last year's three-point marksman available in the late lottery. It looks like he's a legit 6-foot-7 with a fast release and decent (or at least non-terrible) athleticism.

Given San Antonio's desperation for shooting, I couldn't be mad about picking Kispert. The lack of shooting is getting so bad that I'd argue it's already impacting the potential for other players to develop. If Patty leaves, the lack of shooting would be even more of an emergency.

Someone's gonna bite on Kispert and make a mistake. Teams get into a group-think and talk certain players up. Meanwhile, Gonzaga players aren't generally that great anyway. They get a lot of press beating up on their ty conference.

Which Gonzaga players are you referencing, tbh? The only flop recently was Zach Collins and that was 99% due to injuries. Of the top of my head, the rest (Sabonis, Clarke, Rui, Olynyk) at the very least lived up to their draft position.

[DAF86]

Spurs' 3pt shooting should improve once DeRozan GTFO and Vassell starts, tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Which Gonzaga players are you referencing, tbh? The only flop recently was Zach Collins and that was 99% due to injuries. Of the top of my head, the rest (Sabonis, Clarke, Rui, Olynyk) at the very least lived up to their draft position.

All of them? I forgot Sabonis went to Gonzaga, but the rest... meh. I don't dislike any of them, but they certainly haven't set the world on fire. I'm not picking a guy simply because he went to Zaga that's for sure.

[mo7888]

I'm not a huge Kispert fan but I like him better than I liked Nesmith, who was last year's three-point marksman available in the late lottery. It looks like he's a legit 6-foot-7 with a fast release and decent (or at least non-terrible) athleticism.

Given San Antonio's desperation for shooting, I couldn't be mad about picking Kispert. The lack of shooting is getting so bad that I'd argue it's already impacting the potential for other players to develop. If Patty leaves, the lack of shooting would be even more of an emergency.



Which Gonzaga players are you referencing, tbh? The only flop recently was Zach Collins and that was 99% due to injuries. Of the top of my head, the rest (Sabonis, Clarke, Rui, Olynyk) at the very least lived up to their draft position.

I agree with you on the lack of shooting being a desperate need but, we can address that in FA with guys like McDermott, OPJ, Fournier, types to give us spacing to aid in the development of the guys on the roster. So, while I'm not personally down on Kispert I don't think we should take him just because of shooting over someone like Wagner who I think is a better player.

[R. DeMurre]

One comp for Sengun I saw recently was Luis Scola. That oughta get the ol' Spurstalk blood flowin'.

[Mr. Body]

One comp for Sengun I saw recently was Luis Scola. That oughta get the ol' Spurstalk blood flowin'.

Maybe we an trade him for Vassilis Spanoulis Jr.

[PhantomDashCam]

Wanted to post a little info. about Kai Jones. Really enjoy listening to him talk about life outside of basketball. His athleticism is simply jaw dropping.



Then there’s this highlight montage from various scrimmages prior to the most recent collegiate season.

As many have stated, guys always look good in highlight reels but the clay is there to be sculpted, and in the right hands, with his work ethic…

[PhantomDashCam]

And for those who like their intel. in written form, (part puff piece but some useful morsels):

https://www.kazirise.com/2021/05/10/...assau-forever/

Before 2021 Big 12 Sixth Man of the Year Kai Jones became a household name among Texas basketball fans, he had to get some sightseeing in along the way. From growing up in Nassau, to moving to the States when he was eleven, to taking a postgraduate year at the renowned Brewster Academy,

Jones is your guy if you have any questions about frequent-flyer miles.“Kai… has probably had more twists and turns in terms of his journey as a young man, as a basketball player in the past several years than anyone,” Texas coach Shaka Smart noted in an interview with Longhorn Weekly early into Jones’ freshman season. “Fortunately the recruiting process worked out and now here he is.”

Navigating through a Jordan-esque series of events as a kid, Jones was cut from his sixth, seventh, and eighth-grade basketball teams before finding his stride later in high school.

[Dejounte]

Meh, Kai reminds me of Precious Achiuwa. Had a lot of these workout videos that made him look like a wing or to be a Giannis type (probably even more impressive than these videos you shared) and then nothing.

[look_at_g_shred]

Safe pick: Sengun/Wagner/Giddey
High Risk/High Reward: Jones

I'd be fine with any of these 4

[Dejounte]

Safe pick: Sengun/Wagner/Giddey
High Risk/High Reward: Jones

I'd be fine with any of these 4

Add Moses and Bouk in there and this draft is looking like it's the perfect one to be drafting in the #11 to 15 range. Plenty of good options. Obviously less likely more than one of those six will be there at 15, but still.

[Dejounte]

2021 projected #11 to #15 group: Sengun, Moody, Franz, Giddey, Kai, Bouk

>>>>>

2020 actual #11 to #15 group: Vassell, Haliburton, Kira Lewis, Aaron Nesmith, Cole Anthony, Isaiah Stewart, Poku, Saddiq Bey

Former would beat the latter in a basketball game, IMO

[Russ]

As many have stated, guys always look good in highlight reels but the clay is there to be sculpted, and in the right hands, with his work ethic…

That may be why Kai would be a good fit for the Spurs -- they literally mold players with unfinished talent more than other orgs. And with that island background, history beckons . . .

I have always believed that Kawhi would have been a different player -- had a different career path -- if he had been drafted by another team. They literally created him.

Kai may not make it, but it seems more likely he'll be viewed as a bargain if he lands in the right spot.

[Dejounte]

That may be why Kai would be a good fit for the Spurs -- they literally mold players with unfinished talent more than other orgs. And with that island background, history beckons . . .

I have always believed that Kawhi would have been a different player -- had a different career path -- if he had been drafted by another team. They literally created him.

Kai may not make it, but it seems more likely he'll be viewed as a bargain if he lands in the right spot.

Refined is the better word. Kawhi had plenty of skills in college. It's a bad myth to say he was some raw player when he already had his fadeaway in college, his pull up J, and more. It was clear he was watching tapes in college of MJ and Kobe, it was foolish for scouts not to see it.

Last players with unfinished talent that the Spurs took on: Murray, Lonnie. . . do you think Spurs fans are patient enough to wait 3-4 years to see Kai blossom? They're already down on Murray and Lonnie and calling them players with role player ceilings by year 3.

[Dejounte]

New Giddey article:

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...l-lottery-pick

"I heard him say in an interview that he compares himself to me a little bit, and I was like, dude, you're crazy, because you're so much f---ing better than I was at that age," Ingles told ESPN with a laugh."

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"A lot of my talent was that I was OK and good at a lot of things but I wasn't great at anything," Ingles said. "It wasn't like, this team needs to bring me over because I'm an elite 3-point shooter or an elite defender or a playmaker."
Whereas Ingles didn't have one elite skill to bring to the NBA floor as an 18-year-old, Giddey is already arguably the best passer in the 2021 draft class, which should translate from day one in the NBA. Watching film with him over Zoom, he sees everything a step ahead. Although not always as flashy as a Ball or Auburn standout Sharife Cooper, Giddey is unselfish with his hit-aheads.
"It's almost kind of like what people saw with LaMelo in the NBL like, kicking the ball ahead regardless of who it was," Ingles said of Giddey. "If it was the right play to make, he was making it."

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"He can get his feet in the paint whenever he wants. He finds ways to do it," Clarke said. "That's the bigger piece, is what's going on between his ears. To look at situations, figure out and solve problems, that's a transferable skill."
Everyone from Doncic to Jayson Tatum and Nikola Jokic to Stephen Curry faced questions about their traditional "athleticism" coming into the NBA. As Bogut described, Jokic has "a body of a guy that you'd have some beers with at the local pub." Ingles also plays at a fairly slow pace, but because of his skill level, size, court vision and shooting, he is incredibly effective.
"The 'if you're not athletic you're not getting drafted or you're not going to make it in the NBA anymore' [line of thinking], I think that's completely gone," Ingles said. "If you can play and you're a smart player and you know how to get the job done, you can play in the NBA."

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[Russ]

Refined is the better word. Kawhi had plenty of skills in college. It's a bad myth to say he was some raw player when he already had his fadeaway in college, his pull up J, and more. It was clear he was watching tapes in college of MJ and Kobe, it was foolish for scouts not to see it.

Last players with unfinished talent that the Spurs took on: Murray, Lonnie. . . do you think Spurs fans are patient enough to wait 3-4 years to see Kai blossom? They're already down on Murray and Lonnie and calling them players with role player ceilings by year 3.

Didn't mean to imply I didn't think Kawhi was a great player in college, I did.

Here's what I said in real time the night we drafted him:

This is the best draft night since Parker.

(And it aint even done.)

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/sho...=1#post5319754

The word brilliant comes to mind.

(But condolences to the local tatoo parlors. )

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/sho...=1#post5319625

Someone call the cops.

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/sho...=1#post5319797

(And there were plenty of doubters that night.)

[SAGirl]

That may be why Kai would be a good fit for the Spurs -- they literally mold players with unfinished talent more than other orgs. And with that island background, history beckons . . .

I have always believed that Kawhi would have been a different player -- had a different career path -- if he had been drafted by another team. They literally created him.

Kai may not make it, but it seems more likely he'll be viewed as a bargain if he lands in the right spot.

That's giving too much credit to the coach and not enough to the player tbh. He put in the work obsessively in the offseason, and he had a very special quality. I remember seeing interviews from Pop who said, that he was like a sponge. You can show him video of a HOF using a move to score and he would go and work out and practice and be able to learn it. Even Pop recognized (prior to the famous rift) that Kawhi was not a common scenario, that you can't just take any player show him videos and expect that he will emulate and be able to learn to play like a HOF player, copying moves and all that.

I know he deservedly earned ill will in the Spurs with his exit, but you may find yourself disappointed when few others can copy his impressive learning and rise. It's going to take a special player to develop into a star. He may look raw and unifinished offensively right now, but the ability to learn is unique, who has it? That's the question team scouts get paid to answer I think.

[PhantomDashCam]

Meh, Kai reminds me of Precious Achiuwa. Had a lot of these workout videos that made him look like a wing or to be a Giannis type (probably even more impressive than these videos you shared) and then nothing.

For me, Precious always looked very mechanical with the ball in his hands. I never really thought much of him in interviews either.
I just think it’s unrealistic to think every draft pick is going to blow up in their rookie year, even one as old (credentialed?) as Obi Toppin. I still think they should be judged on a 3 year window based on performance relative to draft position.

Precious has a chance to be solid but I never liked him in the draft.

I think Kai is still figuring out how to play and what position is right for him. I would like to see the Spurs encourage that development.

It would be the riskiest pick the Spurs have made in sometime but it’s unlikely that whoever we draft is going to contribute significantly and immediately anyway.

[SAGirl]

Refined is the better word. Kawhi had plenty of skills in college. It's a bad myth to say he was some raw player when he already had his fadeaway in college, his pull up J, and more. It was clear he was watching tapes in college of MJ and Kobe, it was foolish for scouts not to see it.

Last players with unfinished talent that the Spurs took on: Murray, Lonnie. . . do you think Spurs fans are patient enough to wait 3-4 years to see Kai blossom? They're already down on Murray and Lonnie and calling them players with role player ceilings by year 3.

And that's if they can blossom. They have also taken raw atheletes like Metu and Samanic and we see what has happened. Samanic still has hope because he was a first round pick. If he had only two years to develop in the team before they have to decide whether to extend him like Metu did, I don't think Samanic makes it. He's still a very raw athlete.

[SAGirl]

I found one interview that references what I said. There is another one, where Pop specifically uses the word sponge to refer to Kawhi (while he was still in the team, I think Pop was trying to prop Kawhi up for MIP at the time and even for MVP), but this one still gets the same point across that I was making.

In addition, this interview is so interesting in the context of talking about draft picks because he says how when they get a guy drafted they don't really know what he's going to turn into. Anyways, for reference here it is. Enjoy.

FWIW, It doesn't tell us anything about whether Kai is going to pan out tbh. He might, if he is obsessive about his development and has the special ability to learn.

[Dejounte]

I found one interview that references what I said. There is another one, where Pop specifically uses the word sponge to refer to Kawhi (while he was still in the team, I think Pop was trying to prop Kawhi up for MIP at the time and even for MVP), but this one still gets the same point across that I was making.

In addition, this interview is so interesting in the context of talking about draft picks because he says how when they get a guy drafted they don't really know what he's going to turn into. Anyways, for reference here it is. Enjoy.

FWIW, It doesn't tell us anything about whether Kai is going to pan out tbh. He might, if he is obsessive about his development and has the special ability to learn.

I'll say Kawhi's most similar rise was Kobe. I wouldn't call it just "work ethic", I think it's psychological. Kawhi and Kobe both have/ had an obsessive copy cat disorder. I think these kinds of guys come every 10 years. I'd say they're hard to scout because you really have to understand who they are as a person to understand their ability to soak the finest details. It's why I think the Spurs place emphasis on good character. . . players who are good people are usually more receptive to other people's teachings. A player can have the best work ethic in the world, but if their psychological makeup is messy (Murray, for example), then it is more difficult to reach that potential. Not saying it's impossible, and maybe it just takes longer for those people.

[jjspur]

The spurs 3 point shooting is pretty bad so I wouldn't argue with taking Kispert or even Franz Wagner if they are available. The question is do you want to pay Kispert or Wagner at their 11-14 position or do you prefer to pay a free agent Mcdermott or Fournier a lot more money for an older player who will probably shoot roughly the same 3 pt. percentage. Neither of theses guys are all that great defensively. Do we need another 3 and D player ?

[mo7888]

The spurs 3 point shooting is pretty bad so I wouldn't argue with taking Kispert or even Franz Wagner if they are available. The question is do you want to pay Kispert or Wagner at their 11-14 position or do you prefer to pay a free agent Mcdermott or Fournier a lot more money for an older player who will probably shoot roughly the same 3 pt. percentage. Neither of theses guys are all that great defensively. Do we need another 3 and D player ?

You do both if you draft Kispert or Wagner... sign OPJ, Fournier, or McDermott types so you can have spacing....just sign them on 2 year contracts.

[Russ]

I'll say Kawhi's most similar rise was Kobe. I wouldn't call it just "work ethic", I think it's psychological. Kawhi and Kobe both have/ had an obsessive copy cat disorder. I think these kinds of guys come every 10 years. I'd say they're hard to scout because you really have to understand who they are as a person to understand their ability to soak the finest details. It's why I think the Spurs place emphasis on good character. . . players who are good people are usually more receptive to other people's teachings. A player can have the best work ethic in the world, but if their psychological makeup is messy (Murray, for example), then it is more difficult to reach that potential. Not saying it's impossible, and maybe it just takes longer for those people.

I kind of agree with the "disorder" part but maybe not so much the "good character" part.

Guys like Kobe and Kawhi are almost literally sociopaths, there's something missing that they replace with cut-throat compe iveness. The need to prevail, to impose oneself, is an actual need. You can't create that if it isn't there.

Dr. Jack Ramsey, who loved David Robinson as a person, always hesitated when asked to evaluate him as a ballplayer.

Dr. Jack would finally say, "There are qualities that make us good people in almost all other aspects of life, but those same qualities, in the less-important world of compe ive basketball are not the most ideal."

And he loved Big Dave just like all of us.