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  1. #376
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Evan Mobley or Kai Jones. Otherwise you're just moving around a bunch of deck chairs you already have.

  2. #377
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    Alperen, for me, is a way better prospect than someone like Greg Brown or Kai Jones. Alperen has some sneaky athleticism and can be that rim running athletic forward who has good timing and can give you put back dunks. So if we consider that that's what he'll give us at the minimum, all the post-ups and other stuff is gravy. I'm yearning for a playmaking type prospect, but wouldn't be disappointed with a player who plays inside and has post move skills to get you easy shots.

    That being said, he'll probably go higher than we all expect. Seriously think the Thunder will be interested.
    Everybody should be interested, but the NBA can be kind of dumb that way (see Doncic)... BTW, Alperen might just give you some of that playmaking:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1368583417290362882

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1368278659363135492

  3. #378
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    With the way Pop was talking after the loss to the Raptors and emphasizing the lack of physical stature on the team, you almost have to believe that long wings or bigs will be the target this offseason during FA/ draft.

  4. #379
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    With the way Pop was talking after the loss to the Raptors and emphasizing the lack of physical stature on the team, you almost have to believe that long wings or bigs will be the target this offseason during FA/ draft.
    We've got an obvious logjam at 1, 2 and maybe 3 : DJ, White, Tre, Mills, Vassel, Lonnie, Demar, Keldon, Q, KBD...

  5. #380
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    Evan Mobley or Kai Jones. Otherwise you're just moving around a bunch of deck chairs you already have.
    That

  6. #381
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    We have, what, five/six shooting guards: IV, DD, White, Dejounte, Patty, even Vassel. Yes, I know teams play smaller, but they are all basically shooting guards thrown around in different lineups. Jones is the only real point guard.

  7. #382
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    With the way Pop was talking after the loss to the Raptors and emphasizing the lack of physical stature on the team, you almost have to believe that long wings or bigs will be the target this offseason during FA/ draft.
    6’10” guy sitting just a few chairs down...

  8. #383
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    Regardless, I think Giddey is still the goal unless we somehow land higher to get Kaminga. Giddey will likely be gone anyway. Sengun probably a reach; he would be second unit.

  9. #384
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    Still have a lot more film to watch but I'm not too intrigued with Sengun yet, tbh. What he does wouldn't really work in the modern NBA. He's strong but he's also not that tall, not that long, not that athletic and looks pretty damn immobile on defense. Add in that he's not a shooter yet and I'm not sure what people see in him. What's he going to be? Luis Scola without a jumper? To draft Sengun, you'd have to hoping he develops a shot and has room to improve athletically. Otherwise, his game is antiquated on Day 1.

    Everybody should be interested, but the NBA can be kind of dumb that way (see Doncic)... BTW, Alperen might just give you some of that playmaking:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1368583417290362882

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1368278659363135492
    Eh, those are basic passes. Even if you're impressed for some reason, those post-up sets don't even exist in the NBA anymore.




    All that said, Sengun's production is enough to draft him in the 12-16 range without much complaint. This isn't an Avdija situation where his numbers are being purposefully inflated to try to trick NBA front offices. But his transition to the NBA wouldn't be simple and I wouldn't want the Spurs to trade up to get him based on what I've seen so far.

  10. #385
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    Still have a lot more film to watch but I'm not too intrigued with Sengun yet, tbh. What he does wouldn't really work in the modern NBA. He's strong but he's also not that tall, not that long, not that athletic and looks pretty damn immobile on defense. Add in that he's not a shooter yet and I'm not sure what people see in him. What's he going to be? Luis Scola without a jumper? To draft Sengun, you'd have to hoping he develops a shot and has room to improve athletically. Otherwise, his game is antiquated on Day 1.



    Eh, those are basic passes. Even if you're impressed for some reason, those post-up sets don't even exist in the NBA anymore.




    All that said, Sengun's production is enough to draft him in the 12-16 range without much complaint. This isn't an Avdija situation where his numbers are being purposefully inflated to try to trick NBA front offices. But his transition to the NBA wouldn't be simple and I wouldn't want the Spurs to trade up to get him based on what I've seen so far.
    If we trade up it needs to either be a surething or elite upside. There are plenty of guys in the 10-14 range that will be available that have either 1 transferable skill (so high floor) or high upside guys with a red flag or two to work on. I'm personally, for trading up using our pick and a young player or our cap space but, it would need to be one of the top 5 guys to make sense.

  11. #386
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    Alperen, for me, is a way better prospect than someone like Greg Brown or Kai Jones. Alperen has some sneaky athleticism and can be that rim running athletic forward who has good timing and can give you put back dunks. So if we consider that that's what he'll give us at the minimum, all the post-ups and other stuff is gravy. I'm yearning for a playmaking type prospect, but wouldn't be disappointed with a player who plays inside and has post move skills to get you easy shots.

    That being said, he'll probably go higher than we all expect. Seriously think the Thunder will be interested.
    With all the picks the Thunder have in coming years, they are going to be a thorn in the side of a lot of teams because they will be able to take fliers on high risk/high reward prospects as long as they hang onto multiple given picks in a specific draft.

  12. #387
    The Great Eight Ocotillo's Avatar
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    Like Poku

  13. #388
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Two more players I'm relatively low on so far:

    Franz Wagner: I don't trust his jumper; that dip in his shot is getting better but it's still not where it needs to be. As it is, he could struggle to get his shot off in the NBA. Good length, good coordination and good instincts on defense but the lack of athleticism and a body that won't get much stronger limits his upside. He did well in college mostly due to his high basketball IQ but that advantage won't be as large in the NBA. He's a lot like Grant Williams in that he was productive in college because he's smarter and more coordinated than the vast majority of players on that level but that only gets you so far in the NBA. But, then again, like Sengun, can't really complain about getting him in the 12-16 range. On paper, he's a solid fit on the Spurs even if he only ends up being a modern-day Danny Ferry.

    Scottie Barnes: Impressive length, NBA body, far above average passer, really coordinated for his size. But his jumper is hideous and he has no instincts for rebounds or blocking shots. Considering he probably needs to be a PF or even a C in the NBA due to his lack of a jumper and a lack of elite quickness for his size, that's a troublesome combination. I think he has a really low floor; like out of the NBA after his rookie contract type of floor. But, if he learns to shoot and sheds some of his baby fat, there's a slim chance that he could be a star or even a superstar. So, yeah, you can pick him outside of the top ten easily just based on that 1% chance he becomes something special.

  14. #389
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    With all the picks the Thunder have in coming years, they are going to be a thorn in the side of a lot of teams because they will be able to take fliers on high risk/high reward prospects as long as they hang onto multiple given picks in a specific draft.
    Not really. They don't get extra roster space. If you're talking about euro players who will after to stay away, it's true. But many euros won't wait and will force contracts. They can take all the prospects they want, they won't keep many

  15. #390
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    Two more players I'm relatively low on so far:

    Franz Wagner: I don't trust his jumper; that dip in his shot is getting better but it's still not where it needs to be. As it is, he could struggle to get his shot off in the NBA. Good length, good coordination and good instincts on defense but the lack of athleticism and a body that won't get much stronger limits his upside. He did well in college mostly due to his high basketball IQ but that advantage won't be as large in the NBA. He's a lot like Grant Williams in that he was productive in college because he's smarter and more coordinated than the vast majority of players on that level but that only gets you so far in the NBA. But, then again, like Sengun, can't really complain about getting him in the 12-16 range. On paper, he's a solid fit on the Spurs even if he only ends up being a modern-day Danny Ferry.

    Scottie Barnes: Impressive length, NBA body, far above average passer, really coordinated for his size. But his jumper is hideous and he has no instincts for rebounds or blocking shots. Considering he probably needs to be a PF or even a C in the NBA due to his lack of a jumper and a lack of elite quickness for his size, that's a troublesome combination. I think he has a really low floor; like out of the NBA after his rookie contract type of floor. But, if he learns to shoot and sheds some of his baby fat, there's a slim chance that he could be a star or even a superstar. So, yeah, you can pick him outside of the top ten easily just based on that 1% chance he becomes something special.
    I don't know how you could say high basketball IQ won't be as large of an advantage in the NBA when you have dumbass players like Rudy Gay and Mills singlehandedly throwing games away due to their stupidity. Frankly, this team needs a big boost in the IQ department with how often they choke away large leads.

    Edit: I'll add that it's best to wait until the combine to determine how athletic any of these prospects are

  16. #391
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    I think my No. 6 right now is Keon Johnson. Too athletic to ignore. Competes. Not a shot-maker yet but form looks okay. Gets great elevation on his shot. Don't need to squint too hard to see him becoming really, really good. But he needs to be at least the 6-foot-5, 186-pounder he's listed at when they measure him. That's the bare minimum. If he's any smaller than that, I'm swan diving off that bandwagon

  17. #392
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    I don't know how you could say high basketball IQ won't be as large of an advantage in the NBA when you have dumbass players like Rudy Gay and Mills singlehandedly throwing games away due to their stupidity. Frankly, this team needs a big boost in the IQ department with how often they choke away large leads.
    Yeah, I agree with the your second sentence, which is why I preferred Haliburton.

    But Wagner's basketball IQ isn't at a Haliburton level. Probably isn't even at a Vassell level. It's high for his size and length but otherwise that alone won't allow him to succeed in the NBA. From what I've seen so far, he's in the Grant Williams camp. Thrives in college due to size + IQ but his size alone and IQ alone won't be anything too special in the NBA. It'll be better than average but that only gets you so far.

    Maybe I'll change my mind on Wagner as I watch him more but so far I think he's being overhyped. I'd rather have Kispert's shooting or gamble on Giddey or even Kai Jones if you forced me to choose right now.

  18. #393
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    I don't know how you could say high basketball IQ won't be as large of an advantage in the NBA when you have dumbass players like Rudy Gay and Mills singlehandedly throwing games away due to their stupidity. Frankly, this team needs a big boost in the IQ department with how often they choke away large leads.

    Edit: I'll add that it's best to wait until the combine to determine how athletic any of these prospects are
    I think his athleticism will measure out just fine but we'll see at the combine.... I only have two question marks about his game 1) his shots from 3 (I've been saying for a while that I'm concerned about that) and 2) mentality....does he have the mental toughness....

    If our staff thinks they can turn him into a 38+% guy from 3 we could look back 4 years from now and say he's the best player in this draft.....but that's a big IF.... too big for me to gamble on moving up but if he's there where we likely pick (11-14)... he's my top choice..

  19. #394
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    Still have a lot more film to watch but I'm not too intrigued with Sengun yet, tbh. What he does wouldn't really work in the modern NBA. He's strong but he's also not that tall, not that long, not that athletic and looks pretty damn immobile on defense. Add in that he's not a shooter yet and I'm not sure what people see in him. What's he going to be? Luis Scola without a jumper? To draft Sengun, you'd have to hoping he develops a shot and has room to improve athletically. Otherwise, his game is antiquated on Day 1.



    Eh, those are basic passes. Even if you're impressed for some reason, those post-up sets don't even exist in the NBA anymore.




    All that said, Sengun's production is enough to draft him in the 12-16 range without much complaint. This isn't an Avdija situation where his numbers are being purposefully inflated to try to trick NBA front offices. But his transition to the NBA wouldn't be simple and I wouldn't want the Spurs to trade up to get him based on what I've seen so far.

    Imo the important things to note about Sengun is that he is a 18 yrs old boy killing it in a Good league.

    One thing i think will translate in the NBA is his post moves, footwork( really high level on that side), rebounds, hustle .. i'm pretty sure he would be a good offensive big in the league in a few years.
    One flaw, question is the D offcourse.. he doesn't look really fast, i'm a little bit afraid of his D on the perimeter but he can protect the rim for sure.

    Two more players I'm relatively low on so far:

    Franz Wagner: I don't trust his jumper; that dip in his shot is getting better but it's still not where it needs to be. As it is, he could struggle to get his shot off in the NBA. Good length, good coordination and good instincts on defense but the lack of athleticism and a body that won't get much stronger limits his upside. He did well in college mostly due to his high basketball IQ but that advantage won't be as large in the NBA. He's a lot like Grant Williams in that he was productive in college because he's smarter and more coordinated than the vast majority of players on that level but that only gets you so far in the NBA. But, then again, like Sengun, can't really complain about getting him in the 12-16 range. On paper, he's a solid fit on the Spurs even if he only ends up being a modern-day Danny Ferry.

    Scottie Barnes: Impressive length, NBA body, far above average passer, really coordinated for his size. But his jumper is hideous and he has no instincts for rebounds or blocking shots. Considering he probably needs to be a PF or even a C in the NBA due to his lack of a jumper and a lack of elite quickness for his size, that's a troublesome combination. I think he has a really low floor; like out of the NBA after his rookie contract type of floor. But, if he learns to shoot and sheds some of his baby fat, there's a slim chance that he could be a star or even a superstar. So, yeah, you can pick him outside of the top ten easily just based on that 1% chance he becomes something special.
    I undestand your concerns, for me Barnes is a pure project with really elite tools both physical tools( really good size) and the fact that he can be a point forward in the league ( averaging 4 assists with Florida State). Other than that, yes there is a lot of work.

    For Wagner, imo he will be at least a good role player, my concern is his ceilling... would he continues to improve ?

  20. #395
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    TimMVP, consider this:
    http://www.tankathon.com/players/com...alperen-sengun
    He's producing more against better compe ion at better percentages...

    Alperen over here would still be in high school (he's a year younger than Mobley). Yet he's the MVP in a much tougher league than the NCAA...

    Sure, his style is old school big, but let's not pretend he's not a really good one. You may think those passes are "basic" but you tell me which big on our current roster would be able to execute them? (I'd say no one currently; would be funny to watch Poeltl try....) There's not too many bigs in the NBA as whole who could pull those off.

    How many big men do we have that could execute a 360 jam in game?

    My answer is none, and at least 1/2 the bigs in the NBA couldn't pull that move. (Maybe 3/4 of the bigs in the NBA).

  21. #396
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    TimMVP, consider this:
    http://www.tankathon.com/players/com...alperen-sengun
    He's producing more against better compe ion at better percentages...

    Alperen over here would still be in high school (he's a year younger than Mobley). Yet he's the MVP in a much tougher league than the NCAA...

    Sure, his style is old school big, but let's not pretend he's not a really good one. You may think those passes are "basic" but you tell me which big on our current roster would be able to execute them? (I'd say no one currently; would be funny to watch Poeltl try....) There's not too many bigs in the NBA as whole who could pull those off.

    How many big men do we have that could execute a 360 jam in game?

    My answer is none, and at least 1/2 the bigs in the NBA couldn't pull that move. (Maybe 3/4 of the bigs in the NBA).
    Honestly, that display was rather lumbering.

    Sengun may work out better than my favorite sleeper big, Kai Jones, but I'm pretty sure Jones has more upside.

    Jones is an undercoached potential gem (like Jaxon Hayes a couple years ago).

    No sure things in this draft, that's for sure.

  22. #397
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    Evan Mobley or Kai Jones. Otherwise you're just moving around a bunch of deck chairs you already have.
    Cosign!!

  23. #398
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    With the way Pop was talking after the loss to the Raptors and emphasizing the lack of physical stature on the team, you almost have to believe that long wings or bigs will be the target this offseason during FA/ draft.
    Also could be version #313 for calling the team soft.

  24. #399
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    Honestly, that display was rather lumbering.
    You have high standards do you... OK, here's a compilation of NBA in game 360's (which are pretty rare)



    There a grand total of 3 people who are 6'8 and above in this video (Ok, they show AD as well, but he's only doing a 180). Paul George (6'8), Lebron (6'9) and Giannis (6'11). All are top notch NBA athletes... Sengun is 6'10" according to wikipedia, and at only 18, may still be growing. It's "lumbering"; the fact that he can do it says he's an NBA level athlete. A pretty good one.

  25. #400
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    With all the picks the Thunder have in coming years, they are going to be a thorn in the side of a lot of teams because they will be able to take fliers on high risk/high reward prospects as long as they hang onto multiple given picks in a specific draft.
    They can't fit all those picks on their roster. They are the ones who will be over a barrel. Teams will exact a price.from them to help them out.

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