After his junior year of HS, he transferred to one of those basketball academies. Never played a game. Committed to Duke. Quit after 13 games.
Estatic didn’t he quit during a year of COVID you remember the deadly disease on its way to kill a million people? Why would anyone want to play against other players with that Deadly disease just waiting to kill you or give you a lifetime of chronic issues?
Ignoring a very bad 2019, I watch the draft marking off this list.
From what I understand, while Sengun has a huge Pelton lead on Garuba, Pelton's Twitter implied that Sengun rated below what Ball, Edwards and Haliburton did last year.
2006 Damir Markota | all 30 Pelton picks gone by 59
2007 Tiago Splitter | Nick Fazekas
2008 George Hill | Mario Chalmers
2009 DeJuan Blair | DeJuan Blair (overall Pelton #1)
2010 James Anderson | Hassan Whiteside
2011 Kawhi Leonard | Kawhi Leonard; Cory Joseph | Shelvin Mack
2012 Marcus Denmon | Marcus Denmon
2013 Livio Jean-Charles | Jeff Withey
2014 Kyle Anderson | Nikola Jokic (Pelton #4)
2015 Nikola Milutinov | R.J. Hunter
2016 Dejounte Murray | Zhou Qi (or Fred Van Vleet if you doubted Zhou's age)
2017 Derrick White | Monte Morris
2018 Lonnie Walker IV | Dzana Musa
2019 Luka Šamanić | Dedric Lawson ; Keldon Johnson | Bol Bol ; Quinndary Weatherspoon | Shamorie Ponds
2020 Devin Vassell | Tyrese Haliburton (Pelton #3) ; Tre Jones | never saw Pelton's big list, but Jones was #39 in 2019 before he pulled out of the draft.
Copied from 2019:
Another 2019 quote of me. emphasis added:player's projected performance as a rookie
His age
His rank in the latest top 100 from my ESPN colleagues Jonathan Givony and Mike Schmitz
From bits I have gathered over the years, whether they still are in his system:
Steals are very valuable and project very well, therefore Thybulle.
Low turnover rate translates well, therefore Ponds.
Rebounding translates pretty well, blocks moderately well, therefore Bol.
Age is important, Dejounte Murray is younger than Derrick White. Two players that gave Pelton age problems were Zhou Qi and Thon Maker. A 19 year old has more upside that the 23 year old, but that 23 year may produce earlier in the contract.
FT% is a better predictor of NBA 3P% than college 3P%.
College scoring is very misleading.
Improvements as a senior are discounted.
Quality of opponents is somehow normalized.
With each new year of draft data and the changing NBA, the actual formula gets tweaked with the newer results.
The former Ford lists, now Givony and Schmitz, is a hedge to include scouting, mathematically weighed by various factors. I believe scouting is weighted higher for the younger players, less for those with more data.
And yes, each blank spot has as corresponding Ford top 60 that Pelton might consider to be not worthy a draft pick. I don't see Hachimura, Bidatzke and others. As to Bidatzke, Semanic not on the list, note that Pelton has been a leading advocate for foreigners, Doncic #1, Capela #2, Jokic #4, Porzingas, Mirotic and others very high.
No, he quit because he quit. Probably didn't like being coached.
The statement “FA/ trades is the 2/3 of the FO’s responsibility” is where the problem begins and ends with fans
Real life isn’t NBA 2K
but this post will never get through because brains learn through experience rather than honest introspection
we will never admit we are looking at organizational decisions through the lens of someone inexperienced in making those decisions.
This is true. Pop seems to hold majority power and the decisions are in line with someone wanting to win/trusting vets too much vs doing what is probably best.They're very clearly in a holding pattern where the franchise is being held hostage by one man's ego. I wouldn't look for any worthwhile changes until the old man stench is gone tbh.
But now his hand is forced with DDR wanting a contender. So we will see what happens.
That is objectively false….
You don’t need to go 2K to acknowledge a major short coming in FA and trades. Many of us got flamed for calling for the trading of DDR/LMA/Rudy/Mills so they could get assets vs losing them. And not just last year, but 2 seasons ago when they actually had value since they weren’t expiring deals. We saw what this team was and that it was not good enough.
Beyond that preference, even if SA did what I (or many) disagreed with and went for the PO, they did nothing to bolster that strategy either. So it’s not a scenario of looking back and crapping on moves that made sense at the time; they did absolutely nothing but sit in neutral as their standing in the conference and especially the division diminished.
And I’m actually cautiously optimistic here. I don’t think this FO deserves the benefit of the doubt any more but either by legit choice or blind luck, their hand is now forced with DDR/RUDY/MILLS being FA and likely gone (maybe Mills stays). So now that they are gone and can’t be used a crutch to do just enough to miss playoffs, they will be forced to come to a decision(s).
They at least to their credit did not do anything harmful with regards to cap space and flexibility overall. They have good young talent and picks (now and future). But if their performance of the last few years doesn’t improve it will be a long painful road and they need to adapt to the modern nba and that includes being willing to trade and be bolder in FA (to the best of their ability).
There is no more Spurs way for the most part; they need talent and they need leadership in the FO that can see the modern nba and build that type of team. Pop is not that guy from a FO perspective and it needs to stop.
I get that you don't like him and there are good reasons to question his character, but the absolute unabashed certainty you have about this player is kinda funny to me. Rasheed Wallace and Boris Diaw had at ude issues (and when they were much older) and still played well, and tbh aren't most 18 year olds immature? Being 18 is kind of part of the definition of not yet being mature... I just get the feeling that there's something about this guy's personality that really get under your skin, and causes you to react pretty dramatically to every mention of him. I'm not attacking you, and I'll mention that my best friend is a famously short-tempered guy who even jokes about his ridiculous lack of patience, but man, when you talk about JJ it's like you just caught him banging your daughter in the garage an hour ago, and still have a blood pressure of 200/110 to prove it
Yet without the COVID interruption, this was a playoff team. I don't get people who think we could have received huge returns for these players, who they simultaneously hate. And like Dejounte said, this ain't a vidya game. If you get caught into a losing mentality, that's hard to shake. A small market team can get canned really quickly and it takes years and years to get out. You're lucky this team isn't Sacramento yet you don't understand why it's not.
I mean, the guy couldn't stand playing for Coach K. Do you need a Bat Signal or something? Why do you think he'd be an upright soldier all of a sudden in SA?I get that you don't like him and there are good reasons to question his character, but the absolute unabashed certainty you have about this player is kinda funny to me. Rasheed Wallace and Boris Diaw had at ude issues (and when they were much older) and still played well, and tbh aren't most 18 year olds immature? Being 18 is kind of part of the definition of not yet being mature... I just get the feeling that there's something about this guy's personality that really get under your skin, and causes you to react pretty dramatically to every mention of him. I'm not attacking you, and I'll mention that my best friend is a famously short-tempered guy who even jokes about his ridiculous lack of patience, but man, when you talk about JJ it's like you just caught him banging your daughter in the garage an hour ago, and still have a blood pressure of 200/110 to prove it
They were already a losing mentality; Pop just couldn’t be honest about it. They were losers as we saw because they missed the PO twice. It was not bad luck; they did exactly what anyone objective likely knew they would: be just good enough to compete for the last seed but not truly a threat for anything.
You dont have to get a “huge return” either. But what you can’t do is nothing and hold onto players you know you will lose in FA until their value is 0. Now, if they get a S&T for DDR then some of that is mitigated surely. But if they would have been honest about who they were and knowing they weren’t willing to trade an youth/picks for players to help DDR win now, then you move him 2 seasons ago while his value was still +.
You dont have to be SAC to acknowledge reality. It was coming whether they “wanted to try and win” or not. And again, if you want to win and not be “SAC” then trade your youth and picks and go get more win now players.
You can’t both not do anything to help your future and claim you want to win then make no moves after missing the playoffs. That is what bad franchises do. You dont miss the playoffs, claim you want to win, then run it back with the same squad. Everyone went through COVID. Not just the Spurs.
Stephen Jackson was never an upright soldier, but he had value... Again, I get a weird vibe from JJ too-- kinda shifty eyed, kinda defensive, etc. If he was a girl at a bar, I'd think uh-uh, not this one, or as one of my friend likes to joke, hey look at all the pretty red flags waving... My only question is with regards to proportion I guess. I don't have enough info to make an absolutely definitive rejection of him, and his highlights are pretty high. The FO of the Spurs do have those inside channels, so if they chose him, I'd feel relatively confident that his personality issues are not a deal breaker.
wait, so you meant to tell me that ST is populated by normal sports fans who have zero experience in running an organization and not a bunch of experts within the business? my world is shattered...
there is nothing false about saying that it’s ridiculous to say 2/3rds of the FO’s responsibilities are free agency and trades
saying there is a shortcoming in those two areas is a completely separate issue, but again, does not make up 2/3 of the FO’s responsibilities
it’s crazy, isn’t it? Yet here we are, yelling everyday at the sky as if we know better
Maybe the debate lies in the definition: I was not saying they are all 3 equally weighted in order of importance or frequency. I was intending to say there are 3 phases of FO work: Draft/Development, Free Agency and Trades.
Draft happens every year and is most important. Trades wont happen as frequently etc…The purpose was to say they have results wise either performed really poorly in the other two areas or really neglected them altogether and missed opportunities due to a struggle on being honest on what they were/where they were.
I still disagree here that FO is made up of three phases that you listed. They are all under one umbrella: roster construction. There are other umbrellas: player relations, coaching staff management, networking with other teams, agents, equipment at the facility, tech advancement, equipment management, scheduling, and a ton more.
god i ing regret switching to this phone. Can’t type for .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect
And then there is the severe asymmetrical data access issue between people posting here vs. the actual NBA FO personnel...
I mean, whatever lol. Slice it up however you want; this isn’t a business class debate. It’s about the main functions of a FO. Sure, it all gets to roster construction but acting like saying Draft/Development, FA and Trades are the 3 flagpoles of a FO is off seems like an odd bone to pick and misses the point.
Let’s call it roster construction to make you feel good: They have failed at that. They built the worst kind of team and because they did poorly in FA and trades (either with what they did or did not do) the roster construction has SA behind many of the teams in the division either in franchise player to build around or playoff contention (or in the case of MEM and DAL so far both).
That's who I want us to draft if we stay at 12. If we move up, I want Evan Mobley.
Duplicate post.
Last edited by Thomas82; 07-27-2021 at 06:29 PM.
it’s not about what makes me feel good lol I’m calling you out for making a bad statement. That’s all that is.
and no, it isnt the three flagpoles of a FO. You’re still missing the point.
Except no where else on Earth is saying Drafting/Development, Trades and FA are the FO main 3 roles is a “bad statement” except for your mind
But that aside you are focusing on these labels vs addressing any of the substantive merit of the points being made..
i love like this. Thanks for sharing. Something that actually you can learn about.
that was the foundation of your post. Your points have been made time and time again, by smarter people at that. There’s nothing new here to address.Except no where else on Earth is saying Drafting/Development, Trades and FA are the FO main 3 roles is a “bad statement” except for your mind
But that aside you are focusing on these labels vs addressing any of the substantive merit of the points being made..
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