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  1. #2226
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Having a Y chromosome leads to additional muscle and bone mass over those those that do not is subjective? The studies on the muscle atrophy from transition are subjective?

    Get over me, dude.
    You're cherry picking. Get over yourself, dmc.

  2. #2227
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    You're cherry picking. Get over yourself, dmc.
    Nice assertion without basis. As per rule, that can be discarded. I am a skeptic.

    DMC certainly would discount things out of hand and try to make it about how much his political opponents care. These are your behaviors.

  3. #2228
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    Nice assertion without basis. As per rule, that can be discarded. I am a skeptic.
    fuzzy's rules

  4. #2229
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    Dmc would really try hard to dissect the poster instead of stay on topic. That's you.

  5. #2230
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Dmc would really try hard to dissect the poster instead of stay on topic. That's you.
    And yet all you can do in this thread is talk about me. You're narrative belies itself.

  6. #2231
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    And yet all you can do in this thread is talk about me. You're narrative belies itself.
    you're seriously doing nothing in this thread but whining about everyone else. It's all you do in this forum. Go into your play thread and dissect Kori some more. I'm sure he loves it when you talk about him like you do.

  7. #2232
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    you're seriously doing nothing in this thread but whining about everyone else. It's all you do in this forum. Go into your play thread and dissect Kori some more. I'm sure he loves it when you talk about him like you do.
    I was trying to talk about the objective reality of Y chromosome expression.

    And you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of ever since. Your about as ingenuous as that story about your wife.

  8. #2233
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    I was trying to talk about the objective reality of Y chromosome expression.

    And you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of ever since. Your about as ingenuous as that story about your wife.
    You're not trying at all. And now you're taking that extra personal step. Just like dmc.

    If "Y chromosome expression" was the end all "objective reality", this wouldn't even be up for discussion anywhere. But it is.

    You're talking straight out of your ass, cherry picking one ridiculously small aspect of any of this. Just like dmc.

  9. #2234
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    You're not trying at all. And now you're taking that extra personal step. Just like dmc.

    If "Y chromosome expression" was the end all "objective reality", this wouldn't even be up for discussion anywhere. But it is.

    You're talking straight out of your ass with cherry picking one ridiculously small aspect of any of this. Just like dmc.
    As opposed to your side who want to talk about how much people care? Just for fun I will play long:

    What else should we consider other than gene expression and the affects of transition as it relates to compe ive balance in sports involving trans athletes?

  10. #2235
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    It is funny that DMC turned into an insult.

  11. #2236
    Believe. daboom1's Avatar
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    Another huge W for Abbott

  12. #2237
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    It is funny that DMC turned into an insult.
    I thought it was a comparison, seems the stakes got inflated somewhere.

    I hope DMC is doing okay wherever he is. For his own tranquility of mind, it were probably well not for him to dwell here much longer.

  13. #2238
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    is he still active on the BB side?

  14. #2239
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    If you say so. I think you are just feeling a similar disdain as I feel for you. The for tat thing just makes me think my barbs hit home, Chump.

    We are talking about the merits of policy not passing policy. I am saying let's look at objective reality in terms of actual outcomes like what happens to people's bodies as they grow and transition.

    You want to talk about how much your political opponents care.
    I don't think there's a ton of merit to passing this policy on this level. It was already addressed.

    Your objective reality would make it illegal for pubescent kids to play against still prepubescent kids for the sake of fairness.

    It's reality gene expression, but who cares? No one.

    Someone was told to care about this one. That's why it was addressed. Pure emotion.

  15. #2240
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Another huge W for Abbott
    There was armed security at the worst school shootings.

  16. #2241
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    There was armed security at the worst school shootings.
    Really glad my daughter graduated last month and is out of this state. It's also odd he somehow found money for schools without finding money for actual school improvements, school supplies, etc.

  17. #2242
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Really glad my daughter graduated last month and is out of this state. It's also odd he somehow found money for schools without finding money for actual school improvements, school supplies, etc.
    Kids don't need free lunches. Mohr guns!

  18. #2243
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    As opposed to your side who want to talk about how much people care? Just for fun I will play long:

    What else should we consider other than gene expression and the affects of transition as it relates to compe ive balance in sports involving trans athletes?
    "......Often missing from the culture-war aspect of the debate is a focus on the type of questions that Dr. Eric Vilain has spent much of his career researching. Vilain, a pediatrician and geneticist who studies sex differences in athletes, says there are no good faith reasons to limit transgender women's participation in sports, especially at the high school level. Vilain has advised both the International Olympic Committee and the NCAA, and says these laws generally aren't based in scientific evidence, but rather "target women who have either a different biology or ... simply look different."


    ........

    We know that men have, on average, an advantage in performance in athletics of about 10% to 12% over women, which the sports authorities have attributed to differences in levels of a male hormone called testosterone. But the question is whether there is in real life, during actual compe ions, an advantage of performance linked to this male hormone and whether trans athletes are systematically winning all compe ions. The answer to this latter question, are trans athletes winning everything, is simple — that's not the case. And higher levels of the male hormone testosterone are associated with better performance only in a very small number of athletic disciplines: 400 meters, 800 meters, hammer throw, pole vault — and it certainly does not explain the whole 10% difference.

    And lastly, I would say that every sport requires different talents and anatomies for success. So I think we should focus on celebrating this diversity, rather than focusing on relative notions of fairness. For example, the body of a marathon runner is extremely different from the body of a shot put champion, and a transwoman athlete may have some advantage on the basketball field because of her height, but would be at a disadvantage in gymnastics. So it's complicated....... "

    https://www.npr.org/2021/03/18/97871...-the-science-s

  19. #2244
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    "......Often missing from the culture-war aspect of the debate is a focus on the type of questions that Dr. Eric Vilain has spent much of his career researching. Vilain, a pediatrician and geneticist who studies sex differences in athletes, says there are no good faith reasons to limit transgender women's participation in sports, especially at the high school level. Vilain has advised both the International Olympic Committee and the NCAA, and says these laws generally aren't based in scientific evidence, but rather "target women who have either a different biology or ... simply look different."


    ........

    We know that men have, on average, an advantage in performance in athletics of about 10% to 12% over women, which the sports authorities have attributed to differences in levels of a male hormone called testosterone. But the question is whether there is in real life, during actual compe ions, an advantage of performance linked to this male hormone and whether trans athletes are systematically winning all compe ions. The answer to this latter question, are trans athletes winning everything, is simple — that's not the case. And higher levels of the male hormone testosterone are associated with better performance only in a very small number of athletic disciplines: 400 meters, 800 meters, hammer throw, pole vault — and it certainly does not explain the whole 10% difference.

    And lastly, I would say that every sport requires different talents and anatomies for success. So I think we should focus on celebrating this diversity, rather than focusing on relative notions of fairness. For example, the body of a marathon runner is extremely different from the body of a shot put champion, and a transwoman athlete may have some advantage on the basketball field because of her height, but would be at a disadvantage in gymnastics. So it's complicated....... "

    https://www.npr.org/2021/03/18/97871...-the-science-s
    Nice after 3 days of debate and being called out on it repeatedly here on day 3 one of you shows some courage.

    The above article has a bunch of statistical hearsay and sounds a lot like a christian when they say "well we cannot know so it must be God." Prima facie the sample sizes when you divide into events is going to be statistically meaningless.

    I'm with the ACLU.


    We have shown that under testosterone suppression
    regimes typically used in clinical settings, and which
    comfortably exceed the requirements of sports federations
    for inclusion of transgender women in female sports categories by reducing testosterone levels to well below the
    upper tolerated limit, evidence for loss of the male performance advantage, established by testosterone at puberty
    and translating in elite athletes to a 10–50% performance
    advantage, is lacking. Rather, the data show that strength,
    lean body mass, muscle size and bone density are only
    trivially afected. The reductions observed in muscle mass,
    size, and strength are very small compared to the baseline
    diferences between males and females in these variables,
    and thus, there are major performance and safety implications in sports where these attributes are compe ively signifcant. These data signifcantly undermine the delivery
    of fairness and safety presumed by the criteria set out in
    transgender inclusion policies, particularly given the stated
    prioritization of fairness as an overriding objective (for the
    IOC). If those policies are intended to preserve fairness,
    inclusion and the safety of biologically female athletes,
    sporting organizations may need to reassess their policies
    regarding inclusion of transgender women.
    https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uplo..._exhibit_i.pdf

  20. #2245
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    I thought it was a comparison, seems the stakes got inflated somewhere.

    I hope DMC is doing okay wherever he is. For his own tranquility of mind, it were probably well not for him to dwell here much longer.
    It did but Blake/Chump took that comparison and have been trying to pin it on mem since.

  21. #2246
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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    Kids don't need free lunches. Mohr guns!
    This only applies to public schools so not much of a solution as private schools are on their own.

  22. #2247
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    Nice after 3 days of debate and being called out on it repeatedly here on day 3 one of you shows some courage.

    The above article has a bunch of statistical hearsay and sounds a lot like a christian when they say "well we cannot know so it must be God." Prima facie the sample sizes when you divide into events is going to be statistically meaningless.

    I'm with the ACLU.




    https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uplo..._exhibit_i.pdf
    Day 3, you're still whining about me and other posters but at least you finally posted something to back up your .

    This is co-author of the study you linked:

    "The Dangerous Denial of Sex
    Transgender ideology harms women, gays—and especially feminine boys and masculine girls.
    By Colin M. Wright and Emma N. Hilton
    Feb. 13, 2020 6:54 pm ET

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dan...ex-11581638089

    ^ that ridiculous opinion piece was one year before she published the article there in the aclu.org link (which you said "I'm with the ACLU").
    Plenty of others out there questioning Hilton and Lundberg's methodology as well

    Same point as before tho: this is complicated. Although it's hard to come by, more study is needed.

  23. #2248
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    This only applies to public schools so not much of a solution as private schools are on their own.
    And if vouchers become a thing, then what's the problem?

  24. #2249
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Day 3, you're still whining about me and other posters but at least you finally posted something to back up your .

    This is co-author of the study you linked:

    "The Dangerous Denial of Sex
    Transgender ideology harms women, gays—and especially feminine boys and masculine girls.
    By Colin M. Wright and Emma N. Hilton
    Feb. 13, 2020 6:54 pm ET

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dan...ex-11581638089

    ^ that ridiculous opinion piece was one year before she published the article there in the aclu.org link (which you said "I'm with the ACLU").
    Plenty of others out there questioning Hilton and Lundberg's methodology as well

    Same point as before tho: this is complicated. Although it's hard to come by, more study is needed.
    Do you have anything other than ad hominem to discredit on merit?

  25. #2250
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Do you have anything other than ad hominem to discredit on merit?
    Hilton is a noted anti trans campaigner. It's not unfair to question her bias.

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