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  1. #151
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    I don't even like Lauri but yeah that's an easy call if it's Toronto v San Antonio.

    his agent should make a call to Brian Wrong in the summer and Brian will probably pay the Raptors an extra 2mil again for no reason

  2. #152
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I don't even like Lauri but yeah that's an easy call if it's Toronto v San Antonio.

    his agent should make a call to Brian Wrong in the summer and Brian will probably pay the Raptors an extra 2mil again for no reason

  3. #153
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    Good find. Yeah, he makes a lot of sense as a Raptors target. They'd play him at center and probably could hide some of his defensive shortcomings due to the bulk and length of Siakam and OG.
    No, he doesn't. They need a legit center (long rumored interested in Drummond) since light weights/twigs Siakam and Boucher don't have the girth to credibly play it (even though the latter basically has to, his viability is matchup dependant), it's asking too much of Anunoby and for all their length and athleticism, neither he nor Siakam play big either.


    I don't even like Lauri but yeah that's an easy call if it's Toronto v San Antonio.

    his agent should make a call to Brian Wrong in the summer and Brian will probably pay the Raptors an extra 2mil again for no reason
    Partially right in that it is an easy call, but wrong that it's in favor of the Raptors. The Spurs could not only easily outbid them if they wanted to, but the prospect of Markkanen having to play little to no center and not having an established offensive hierarchy will likely be appealing to him, as well as the perception of a "culture" that's foreigner friendly.

  4. #154
    Believe. JuneJive's Avatar
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    How is his perimeter D?

    If he can be a 4 and focus more on the outside, both ends of the floor, then maybe he's worth considering.

  5. #155
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    "The Raptors will be about $25 million below the cap if they don’t re-sign Kyle Lowry and waive the non-guaranteed deals of Aron Baynes, Rodney Hood, Paul Watson and DeAndre’ Bembry. This includes Gary Trent, Jr.’s cap hold. They could generate another $7 million in room by waiving or trading Chris Boucher."

    It would be amazing if Boucher became available before next season, after which he becomes a free agent. Right now, Boucher averages more points, rebounds, blocks, steals, and assists per 36 than Markannen, while also shooting a better 3pt% and a better 2 pt%, and having significantly better advanced stats. The only advantages Lauri has over him right now is that he fouls about half as frequently, and he's 5 years younger. I'd be much happier with Boucher over Markkanen.

  6. #156
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    It would be amazing if Boucher became available before next season, after which he becomes a free agent. Right now, Boucher averages more points, rebounds, blocks, steals, and assists per 36 than Markannen, while also shooting a better 3pt% and a better 2 pt%, and having significantly better advanced stats. The only advantage Lauri has over him right now is that he fouls about half as frequently. I'd be much happier with Boucher over Markkanen.
    I would too and it would be completely insane for the Raptors to let go Boucher for Markkanen, or even attain Markkanen for the purpose of playing him over Boucher. You've got a player who already knows the system and know how well he does in it. Why risk investing a lot of money into an unknown who is very similar to a player you already have?

  7. #157
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I would too and it would be completely insane for the Raptors to let go Boucher for Markkanen, or even attain Markkanen for the purpose of playing him over Boucher. You've got a player who already knows the system and know how well he does in it. Why risk investing a lot of money into an unknown who is very similar to a player you already have?
    Let's hope Toronto has a little streak of insanity in them this off season. Right now, I'd say Boucher's current production kinda looks like Markkanen's ceiling, if things go right for him.

  8. #158
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    Let's hope Toronto has a little streak of insanity in them this off season. Right now, I'd say Boucher's current production kinda looks like Markkanen's ceiling, if things go right for him.
    They are totally different players not agree on this. Boucher can protect the rim, Markannen not but Lauri has more offensive upside.

    Actually they are both on their 4th season and Markannen has the better stats by far , i don't understand the ceilling part.

  9. #159
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    They are totally different players not agree on this. Boucher can protect the rim, Markannen not but Lauri has more offensive upside.

    Actually they are both on their 4th season and Markannen has the better stats by far , i don't understand the ceilling part.
    Here's their comparison side by side: https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2021

    There's no question Boucher is the better defender, but Boucher is currently outperforming Markkanen in the one area that everyone claims is his most important skill: shooting.
    By ceiling, I mean I can't see Markkanen ever posting better advanced stats than what Boucher is posting this year. Every marker is in Boucher's favor-- Offensive rating, defensive rating, VORP, BPM, Win shares, WS/48, etc...

  10. #160
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    Here's their comparison side by side: https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2021

    There's no question Boucher is the better defender, but Boucher is currently outperforming Markkanen in the one area that everyone claims is his most important skill: shooting.
    By ceiling, I mean I can't see Markkanen ever posting better advanced stats than what Boucher is posting this year. Every marker is in Boucher's favor-- Offensive rating, defensive rating, VORP, BPM, Win shares, WS/48, etc...
    Ok i understand what you mean, Boucher is having a carreer year and Lauri probably his worst year. Imo Lauri needs a good environment to shows his capacities. We'll see next year in SA or elswhere

  11. #161
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Ok i understand what you mean, Boucher is having a carreer year and Lauri probably his worst year. Imo Lauri needs a good environment to shows his capacities. We'll see next year in SA or elswhere
    Nope. Four years vs Four years.

  12. #162
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    Here's their comparison side by side: https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2021

    There's no question Boucher is the better defender, but Boucher is currently outperforming Markkanen in the one area that everyone claims is his most important skill: shooting.
    By ceiling, I mean I can't see Markkanen ever posting better advanced stats than what Boucher is posting this year. Every marker is in Boucher's favor-- Offensive rating, defensive rating, VORP, BPM, Win shares, WS/48, etc...
    Different shot profile, closer to the shots of big wing shooters like Bojan Bogdanovic. Boucher is a budget John Collins, rim run and 3. Basically Markkanen is a 7ft shooting big wing that the spurs have tried to pursue every offseason Marcus Morris / Bojan Bogdanovic / Harrison Barnes.

    These type of wings have poor net rating but teams still put a premium on their services because they are key parts of high scoring offensive units.

  13. #163
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I’m OK saying no on Laurie. If he can’t play defense then I don’t see the point, to be honest. I’d rather sign defensive mind players for cheaper shorter contracts while we still try to find our star. And he isn’t it.

  14. #164
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Different shot profile, closer to the shots of big wing shooters like Bojan Bogdanovic. Boucher is a budget John Collins, rim run and 3. Basically Markkanen is a 7ft shooting big wing that the spurs have tried to pursue every offseason Marcus Morris / Bojan Bogdanovic / Harrison Barnes.

    These type of wings have poor net rating but teams still put a premium on their services because they are key parts of high scoring offensive units.
    Problem is Markkanen is too slow to guard PFs, so I imagine he'd really have some trouble with quality SFs. Boucher has his own issues with regard to switching on Centers because he's so skinny, but I think he'd still do a better job than Markkenan there, and would also be better on switches involving SFs. Also, Markkenan as SF might be a problem because he's not especially strong on ball movement. He's averaging under 1 assist per game this year, which is pretty unusual for a guy who spends so much time on the perimeter-- so, in a way, he's the worst of both worlds-- a 7' guy who's not a great rebounder or shot blocker-- so not too valuable in the paint-- but who when switched to SF also isn't a great ball handler or passer. His 2pt% is pretty great this year though, so there is that. It's an interesting dilemma for a coach to figure out.

  15. #165
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    A lot of people are ragging on Markkanen but if you think of him as a semi washed up Rudy and a non existent Lyles replacement, it isnt so bad. Lyles I will bet isn't coming back and Rudy probably isn't either unless he takes a serious pay cut. That's 19.5 million between both of them that can be spent. Get Markkanen for 18 mil. and you have 1.5 mil left over for an end of the bench player who can take Lyle's place. Either way the spurs should have some decent money to spend but not a whole lot of quality players to spend it on this off season. I'm Ok to saying no to Markkanen, but I'm not Ok to keep paying players who have outlived their usefulness on this team for the amount of $$$ we are paying them. Why do we have so much money ? Because we will finally be finished paying some middling, some over the hill, and some washed up always injured players on this team. Hey spurs front office, lets do a better job this time around.

  16. #166
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    Problem is Markkanen is too slow to guard PFs, so I imagine he'd really have some trouble with quality SFs. Boucher has his own issues with regard to switching on Centers because he's so skinny, but I think he'd still do a better job than Markkenan there, and would also be better on switches involving SFs. Also, Markkenan as SF might be a problem because he's not especially strong on ball movement. He's averaging under 1 assist per game this year, which is pretty unusual for a guy who spends so much time on the perimeter-- so, in a way, he's the worst of both worlds-- a 7' guy who's not a great rebounder or shot blocker-- so not too valuable in the paint-- but who when switched to SF also isn't a great ball handler or passer. His 2pt% is pretty great this year though, so there is that. It's an interesting dilemma for a coach to figure out.
    Both really can't start at center , Boucher because he gives up a ton of offensive boards ( the reason Nurse won't start him at center ) and Markannen lacks rim protection. Boucher is more mobile he is 6'9 200 after all.

    I don't get the switch to SF thing. Those big wings play the off ball role, none of those run the pick and roll , isolates or post up.

    Don't expect good offensive rebounding numbers from those who shoot more than 50% of their shots from three. Per 36 defensive rebounding of Jakob and Markannen is identical and Markannen only plays 50% as the lone big man.

  17. #167
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Both really can't start at center , Boucher because he gives up a ton of offensive boards ( the reason Nurse won't start him at center ) and Markannen lacks rim protection. Boucher is more mobile he is 6'9 200 after all.

    I don't get the switch to SF thing. Those big wings play the off ball role, none of those run the pick and roll , isolates or post up.

    Don't expect good offensive rebounding numbers from those who shoot more than 50% of their shots from three. Per 36 defensive rebounding of Jakob and Markannen is identical and Markannen only plays 50% as the lone big man.
    Right. We're so accustomed to watching DeMar takeover ball handling duties and playmaking duties that it's hard for us to imagine how a primarily catch-and-shoot player will do on our offense. Markkanen shoots the ball when he gets it-- that's his role. He's not out there to create plays out of thin air and average a few assists a game. Like I said earlier, Lauri's issue is his decision-making. Sometimes, he forces a shot when not in rhythm. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to teach him to pass the ball if it's not a good look...possibly leading to more assists. Lauri moves so well off the ball that it's reminiscent of Bertans. That's who he is. And maybe, he can reach a higher level than Bertans with the way he makes powerful strides to the basket.

  18. #168
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Right. We're so accustomed to watching DeMar takeover ball handling duties and playmaking duties that it's hard for us to imagine how a primarily catch-and-shoot player will do on our offense. Markkanen shoots the ball when he gets it-- that's his role. He's not out there to create plays out of thin air and average a few assists a game. Like I said earlier, Lauri's issue is his decision-making. Sometimes, he forces a shot when not in rhythm. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to teach him to pass the ball if it's not a good look...possibly leading to more assists. Lauri moves so well off the ball that it's reminiscent of Bertans. That's who he is. And maybe, he can reach a higher level than Bertans with the way he makes powerful strides to the basket.
    I don't mean to imply that I want Markkanen to be come an "assist guy", but even a poor passer with little to no court vision is going to stumble across a few assists. I mentioned his very low assists numbers in conjunction his other low numbers in rebounds, steals, blocks...

  19. #169
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I don't get the switch to SF thing. Those big wings play the off ball role, none of those run the pick and roll , isolates or post up.
    Someone earlier had mentioned (Dejounte?) that Coach Donovan had been experimenting a little with playing Markkanen at SF.

  20. #170
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    Bryn Forbes big brother for 20 million per. Intriguing... (blue font)
    Save the cap space for bad contracts to gain some picks.
    Spurs already have Samanic and can get a cheaper Markkanen type player via draft.

    I‘m okay with spending money, but it has to make sense. Throwing a ton of money on someone who has an injury history and hasn‘t shown some promise that he can defend a bit at least. No, thanks.

  21. #171
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Bryn Forbes big brother for 20 million per. Intriguing... (blue font)
    Save the cap space for bad contracts to gain some picks.
    Spurs already have Samanic and can get a cheaper Markkanen type player via draft.

    I‘m okay with spending money, but it has to make sense. Throwing a ton of money on someone who has an injury history and hasn‘t shown some promise that he can defend a bit at least. No, thanks.
    And if there are no trade partners for this kind of trade? Who are some specific players do you propose for the Spurs to sign to meet the salary cap floor?

  22. #172
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    So ragas wants to race to the bottom competing with okc for pick hoarding? So much potential with an extra 2nd round pick

  23. #173
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    And if there are no trade partners for this kind of trade? Who are some specific players do you propose for the Spurs to sign to meet the salary cap floor?
    Word on the street is that bad contracts available are Wiggins, still, Barnes, and Horford. I’d be OK with any of them, but of the three, Wiggins would need the best asset(s) attached. All expire or have a team option in 2023.

    This is all assuming that we bust in FA, and don’t do something stupid like signing Markkanen.

  24. #174
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    Bryn Forbes big brother for 20 million per. Intriguing... (blue font)
    Save the cap space for bad contracts to gain some picks.
    Spurs already have Samanic and can get a cheaper Markkanen type player via draft.

    I‘m okay with spending money, but it has to make sense. Throwing a ton of money on someone who has an injury history and hasn‘t shown some promise that he can defend a bit at least. No, thanks.
    A 7ft Bryn Forbes? That is the dream.

  25. #175
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    Word on the street is that bad contracts available are Wiggins, still, Barnes, and Horford. I’d be OK with any of them, but of the three, Wiggins would need the best asset(s) attached. All expire or have a team option in 2023.

    This is all assuming that we bust in FA, and don’t do something stupid like signing Markkanen.
    The question posed was, who are the players the Spurs should sign if either the Spurs aren't real suitors for taking on bad contracts (because they don't want to be) or because those teams with bad contracts don't want to trade with the Spurs for whatever reason.

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