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  1. #451
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    So now with #4 (if holds), #16 and #18 in the first round… I wonder if they are going to package those mid rounders to move up some?

    Fascinating draft study. I wonder what the morale is like in OKC?
    If Houston’s pick gets knocked out of the top 3 in the drawing, they get to swap #18 for it, too. I’ve run TaT simulations wher OKC winds up with like 4 and 5.

  2. #452
    The Great Eight Ocotillo's Avatar
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    2. Why further thwart Luka’s development? Luka could fit the same role as Collins at a much cheaper price. Unfortunately the team avoided getting the answer to this question this year, but if you sign Collins, you might as well call Luka a wasted draft pick because the team failed to develop him.
    I hear you but we are paper thin in depth at the 4 so adding Collins likely means Luke won't be starting but Collins is a known quan y whereas Luke remains "potential". I have high hopes for him as well but even in Atlanta they have Hunter and Reddish as well. If they didn't do Collins, odds are some veteran will be brought in and be the starting four.

  3. #453
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    Is Marvin Bagley III a option we should be looking into, the Kings tried to trade him this season.

  4. #454
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Is Marvin Bagley III a option we should be looking into, the Kings tried to trade him this season.
    There’s a reason they’re trying to trade him. Actually reasonS. He’s vastly underperformed his draft slot, he’s coming up on a payday, and he’s another one with a difficult family. With a #2 overall pick, you’re wanting a potential All Star, not someone who FINALLY starts in his 3rd season. His pay for next year is north of $11M, and he’s going to want a phat extension. This is another case where if he were picked in the middle of the first, he’d be OK. His numbers are very pedestrian AND consistent: 14p/7r. He’s an MLE player, but he won’t take that.

  5. #455
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    There’s a reason they’re trying to trade him. Actually reasonS. He’s vastly underperformed his draft slot, he’s coming up on a payday, and he’s another one with a difficult family. With a #2 overall pick, you’re wanting a potential All Star, not someone who FINALLY starts in his 3rd season. His pay for next year is north of $11M, and he’s going to want a phat extension. This is another case where if he were picked in the middle of the first, he’d be OK. His numbers are very pedestrian AND consistent: 14p/7r. He’s an MLE player, but he won’t take that.
    I understand all that, and it is a gamble, but he is young, he does have size, and mobility few 6'10 ers have. If he doesn't work out let him walk the following year. I mean he has played for the Kings his entire career, have they ever developed a star player?

  6. #456
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    I understand all that, and it is a gamble, but he is young, he does have size, and mobility few 6'10 ers have. If he doesn't work out let him walk the following year. I mean he has played for the Kings his entire career, have they ever developed a star player?
    Demarcus Cousins? Currently, D’Aaron Fox.

    You can find two players in the draft that can fit your size and mobility requirements, and they’ll be cheap, and available in the middle to the end of the first round: Isaiah Jackson and Kai Jones. There’s nothing he has that they don’t.

    Kings won’t give him away for free, so your one year trial is a non-starter. It’s like a game of musical chairs: you don’t want to be the team that realizes that he’s not worth the extension, you want to be the team the next summer that signs him to like 3/$24M.

  7. #457
    Big Body look_at_g_shred's Avatar
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    I don't watch Kings basketball. Can Bagley hit the 3? I mean naturally not awkward.

  8. #458
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    There’s a reason they’re trying to trade him. Actually reasonS. He’s vastly underperformed his draft slot, ...
    Not relevant to the Spurs since they didn’t draft him.


    ... he’s another one with a difficult family.
    That’s something to check carefully.


    His pay for next year is north of $11M, ... His numbers are very pedestrian AND consistent: 14p/7r. He’s an MLE player, but he won’t take that.
    The Spurs paid Rudy Gay more than that for significantly worse stats. $14M/11.4p/4.8r

    Bagley made the all rookie team. He has the size to play pf and occasionally center. He’s left handed, which can be an advantage, since defenders are accustomed to right handed players. He shot 34% from the arc, which is good enough to indicate he might improve further. He’s young enough, at 22, to develop a lot, depending on his personality — is he dedicated? He was lousy from the ft line, 58%. Needs more training and practice, clearly. He’s worth a more detailed in-depth look as a trade possibility.

    About his family, his grandfather is Jumpin’ Joe Caldwell, who coincidentally was also a #2 draft pick, and made the NBA all rookie team. Jumpin Joe was all-NBA once and made the all-defensive team twice. A little trivia fwiw.

  9. #459
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    I don't watch Kings basketball. Can Bagley hit the 3? I mean naturally not awkward.
    Career 30%. He hit 34% this year, 2.5 atts per game. Not a sniper.

  10. #460
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I hear you but we are paper thin in depth at the 4 so adding Collins likely means Luke won't be starting but Collins is a known quan y whereas Luke remains "potential". I have high hopes for him as well but even in Atlanta they have Hunter and Reddish as well. If they didn't do Collins, odds are some veteran will be brought in and be the starting four.
    That’s valid. I suppose it depends on what they want to do with Rudy as well, and if they want to change Keldon’s role.

  11. #461
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    Sensible trade for both teams. The Celtics now need to attempt to trade Thompson, re-sign Fournier and sign a rotational PG. Meanwhile, the Thunder continue their master class on re-building.

    Obviously nothing is guaranteed and this might not ultimately end up as good as it looks potentially promising, but I'd still rather have a bona fide cornerstone in tow (Gilgeous-Alexander) and umpteen high quality assets/flexibility than be the rudderless Spurs.


    2. Why further thwart Luka’s development? Luka could fit the same role as Collins at a much cheaper price. Unfortunately the team avoided getting the answer to this question this year, but if you sign Collins, you might as well call Luka a wasted draft pick because the team failed to develop him.
    Samanic has yet to prove he's an NBA player and wasn't a high enough pick or pedigreed enough prospect at any point that any team would or should hand him a starting job.

    Collins (Markkanen is far more likely) wouldn't "thwart" his development, as barring the outcome of the draft they don't have a backup option and I'd be surprised if that changes during the draft.

  12. #462
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Sensible trade for both teams. The Celtics now need to attempt to trade Thompson, re-sign Fournier and sign a rotational PG. Meanwhile, the Thunder continue their master class on re-building.

    Obviously nothing is guaranteed and this might not ultimately end up as good as it looks potentially promising, but I'd still rather have a bona fide cornerstone in tow (Gilgeous-Alexander) and umpteen high quality assets/flexibility than be the rudderless Spurs.




    Samanic has yet to prove he's an NBA player and wasn't a high enough pick or pedigreed enough prospect at any point that any team would or should hand him a starting job.

    Collins (Markkanen is far more likely) wouldn't "thwart" his development, as barring the outcome of the draft they don't have a backup option and I'd be surprised if that changes during the draft.
    Obviously, he isn’t proven. Lot of unknowns. What is known? We are going to suck next year. It’s called rebuilding. If you want to commit to Collins or Markanen, and see how great they are, hey, be my guest. They both seem overrated to me.

  13. #463
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    Sensible trade for both teams. The Celtics now need to attempt to trade Thompson, re-sign Fournier and sign a rotational PG. Meanwhile, the Thunder continue their master class on re-building.

    Obviously nothing is guaranteed and this might not ultimately end up as good as it looks potentially promising, but I'd still rather have a bona fide cornerstone in tow (Gilgeous-Alexander) and umpteen high quality assets/flexibility than be the rudderless Spurs.




    Samanic has yet to prove he's an NBA player and wasn't a high enough pick or pedigreed enough prospect at any point that any team would or should hand him a starting job.

    Collins (Markkanen is far more likely) wouldn't "thwart" his development, as barring the outcome of the draft they don't have a backup option and I'd be surprised if that changes during the draft.
    OKCs moves look good on paper but you can’t call it a master class until you know how it ends up. Tanking has never really worked out like some here seem to fantasize about. Philly is the closest team to making it look successful and that’s debatable.

  14. #464
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Thunder gonna have to add multiple picks to move up the draft. I think that is their plan. But even then that would be hard to do to jump up high.

  15. #465
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Thunder gonna have to add multiple picks to move up the draft. I think that is their plan. But even then that would be hard to do to jump up high.
    Their own pick should be high, and if Houston’s gets knocked out of the top 3, OKC can swap #18 for it.

  16. #466
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Thunder gonna have to add multiple picks to move up the draft. I think that is their plan. But even then that would be hard to do to jump up high.
    Their own pick should be high, and if Houston’s gets knocked out of the top 4, OKC can swap #18 for it.

  17. #467
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    Obviously, he isn’t proven. Lot of unknowns. What is known? We are going to suck next year. It’s called rebuilding. If you want to commit to Collins or Markanen, and see how great they are, hey, be my guest. They both seem overrated to me.
    I'm saying, players in his predicament don't just get handed starting jobs or have the path cleared for them.

    I didn't say I wanted Markkanen, I said he's probably the most likely outcome. Either way, they'll bring in a starting four of some sort and Samanic will have an opportunity to earn minutes off the bench.


    OKCs moves look good on paper but you can’t call it a master class until you know how it ends up. Tanking has never really worked out like some here seem to fantasize about. Philly is the closest team to making it look successful and that’s debatable.
    Nah, I can because they've given themselves the best possible chance to build a good or better team.

    Tanking gives one greater odds of securing a franchise player and since most markets can't attract them via free agency or trade, it's vital they do so via the draft. It's either that or relying on being the team to pick the needle out of the haystack.

    The 76ers, while never a contender, are a resounding success. They got a superstar and a star (albeit highly flawed), they're just the worst possible fit together. But you don't get to pick your stars.

  18. #468
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I'm saying, players in his predicament don't just get handed starting jobs or have the path cleared for them.

    I didn't say I wanted Markkanen, I said he's probably the most likely outcome. Either way, they'll bring in a starting four of some sort and Samanic will have an opportunity to earn minutes off the bench.
    I hear what you're saying, and in general I would agree, but, for example, didn't Lyles just walk right in off the trash heap and start immediately? I mean, he had zero familiarity with the team. To me, that is more shocking than Luka getting a starting gig next year. I admit that it would still be odd. But then I look at the options: re-signing Gay and trotting him out again, or overpaying for Markannen, or letting Luka start and embrace our rebuild. I've been advocating what I prefer. Guessing what the FO and Coach does is a different discussion. Maybe we're expecting a FA signing and they surprise us with a trade. We'll see.

  19. #469
    The Kiss Of Death NickiRasgo's Avatar
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    OKCs moves look good on paper but you can’t call it a master class until you know how it ends up. Tanking has never really worked out like some here seem to fantasize about. Philly is the closest team to making it look successful and that’s debatable.
    Jazz was supposed to be a lottery team for a while after Hayward left. Made a pretty simple move in the draft within that offseason and fast forward today, even made them better long-term. They even made the playoffs on the first year without Hayward.

  20. #470
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Jazz was supposed to be a lottery team for a while after Hayward left. Made a pretty simple move in the draft within that offseason and fast forward today, even made them better long-term. They even made the playoffs on the first year without Hayward.
    They were a lottery team the last 4 years Hayward was there. It wasn’t really stretch to say they’d be one the year after he left. They captured lightning in a bottle with the Mitc pick, with an assist from Denver. No one will do us such a solid. They’re jealous, and tired of hearing about us being the model franchise.

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  21. #471
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    They were a lottery team the last 4 years Hayward was there. It wasn’t really stretch to say they’d be one the year after he left. They captured lightning in a bottle with the Mitc pick, with an assist from Denver. No one will do us such a solid. They’re jealous, and tired of hearing about us being the model franchise.

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    This.there is no mythical trade that will present itself and magically catapult the spurs.spurs are going to have to do this hard way build through the draft ,and hope they get lucky in fa

  22. #472
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    I'm saying, players in his predicament don't just get handed starting jobs or have the path cleared for them.

    I didn't say I wanted Markkanen, I said he's probably the most likely outcome. Either way, they'll bring in a starting four of some sort and Samanic will have an opportunity to earn minutes off the bench.




    Nah, I can because they've given themselves the best possible chance to build a good or better team.

    Tanking gives one greater odds of securing a franchise player and since most markets can't attract them via free agency or trade, it's vital they do so via the draft. It's either that or relying on being the team to pick the needle out of the haystack.

    The 76ers, while never a contender, are a resounding success. They got a superstar and a star (albeit highly flawed), they're just the worst possible fit together. But you don't get to pick your stars.
    Bit of a flawed argument when you move the goal posts from “master class” to simply giving themselves the best possible chance.

    My whole point is that tanking as a path to long term success has little to know actual examples that have played out like some here seem to think it will. I’m not talking about a single season where things fell apart late in the season. Some here want to see us tank across multiple seasons. Like Philly. Like OKC. It’s never really worked.

  23. #473
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    Jazz was supposed to be a lottery team for a while after Hayward left. Made a pretty simple move in the draft within that offseason and fast forward today, even made them better long-term. They even made the playoffs on the first year without Hayward.
    I get your point. Not really an example of tanking though. If anything it’s more of an example how our team has approached things than it does tanking.

    As much as I’d love a top 5 pick I think tanking and moving assets to move up isn’t really in our best interest. I’m not opposed to a trade but not if it means moving multiple young players to inch up in the draft. Those aren’t prudent moves which is why we don’t see it from our front office.

  24. #474
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    I get your point. Not really an example of tanking though. If anything it’s more of an example how our team has approached things than it does tanking.

    As much as I’d love a top 5 pick I think tanking and moving assets to move up isn’t really in our best interest. I’m not opposed to a trade but not if it means moving multiple young players to inch up in the draft. Those aren’t prudent moves which is why we don’t see it from our front office.
    No one in the top 5 of a 3+2 draft is moving down out of the top 5. If you’re OKC sitting on like 6, 16 and 18, I’m sorry, you’re not getting into the top 5. I don’t care if you parlay 16+18 into #9, you’re not getting into the top 5.

    No one else is worth spending assets to move up. You’re just as likely to strike lottery gold at 14 as at 6, Spurs more than anyone.

  25. #475
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    What about Gary Trent Jr? I see Bobby Mark's projects his salary at $14M per...we'd have to overpay to get Toronto to pass. If we max Collins and overpay for Trent... what would you think of a DJ, Trent, KJ, JC, Jak lineup? It's pretty balanced and can spread the floor....

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