would you max a 24 year old whos averaging 16, 7, 5 and improving day by day?
many people want to trade him.
his name is Dejounte Murray.
Wow, that was quite the BOOM!
If only Murray and Collins were comparable players / if only the Spurs had a PF who was significantly better than Collins even if injured.
So we're gonna bring DeAndre Hunter into this I see...
If he were a Spur, I'd certainly not feel as bullish on Collins. I'd have probably been more keen on Vuc last year too.
I really don't get how his value increased.Per the athletic this morning:
Across the league, many believe Hawks forward/center John Collins increased his value as a maximum contract-caliber player during Atlanta’s run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 18 postseason games, Collins averaged 13.9 points, 8.7 rebounds and 35.7 percent 3-point shooting.
Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and Minnesota are among the teams expected to show interest in Collins, believing he could be attainable as a restricted free agent, sources said. Hawks owner Tony Ressler said after the season that he hoped the team reached a “fair agreement” with Collins. Will the sides find that threshold?
Let all the false hope begin
Some reporters said Collins shut down Randle and Simmons. Randle shot the same percentage when guarded by Gallinari. Simmons shot 70% on Collins and he mostly hides on the dunker spot. Harris lit him up 50+ % on a lot of shots.
ATL needed him to create his own shot, mostly tragic brunson alert if he has to take more than 3 dribbles and his post ups takes up the whole shot clock because he can't back down anybody.
He is a great energy guy and spot up shooter but he can only defend one player type and there is no progress on that shot creation.
People are still mentioning the 20-10 thing. He is a 20-10 guy when he had Turner lite in Dedmon standing in the corner shooting 3. Which pretty much opens up a whole lot of problems defensively in transition.
I remember thinking it was a little curious when the story came out in January about the Spurs scouting Collins' Wake Forest teammate Dinos Mitaglou in Greece, and thinking that might be one way to get a clever or sneaky advantage in luring Collins, by saying his college buddy would have a place on the bench. Mitaglou had a good year with his Greek team, and then really played great as they won the Greek league championship, but this summer he signed a two year deal with Olimpia Milano.
https://www.poundingtherock.com/2021...dinos-mitoglou
https://www.euroleague.net/news/i/bm...-with-mitoglou
this has the feel of a mark cuban 'must have this FA' moment.Per the athletic this morning:
Across the league, many believe Hawks forward/center John Collins increased his value as a maximum contract-caliber player during Atlanta’s run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 18 postseason games, Collins averaged 13.9 points, 8.7 rebounds and 35.7 percent 3-point shooting.
Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and Minnesota are among the teams expected to show interest in Collins, believing he could be attainable as a restricted free agent, sources said. Hawks owner Tony Ressler said after the season that he hoped the team reached a “fair agreement” with Collins. Will the sides find that threshold?
Let all the false hope begin
If that is the case, looks like they can be serious contenders. By my count they can open up about $24M this summer.
Way too many counting stats without context references, not understanding that all maxes aren't created equal and that with their combination of flexibility and not being a destination franchise, money should not be an obstacle if they want someone(s) badly enough.
More than likely, but it's still encouraging to see one of the two foremost news breakers listing them. If they want him badly enough, there's no reason they wouldn't be able to get him given their superior financial flexibility. It's just a question of how far are they willing to go, not only in terms of maxing him but the structure of the contract to dissuade the Hawks or to potentially work out a sign and trade with them.Per the athletic this morning:
Across the league, many believe Hawks forward/center John Collins increased his value as a maximum contract-caliber player during Atlanta’s run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 18 postseason games, Collins averaged 13.9 points, 8.7 rebounds and 35.7 percent 3-point shooting.
Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and Minnesota are among the teams expected to show interest in Collins, believing he could be attainable as a restricted free agent, sources said. Hawks owner Tony Ressler said after the season that he hoped the team reached a “fair agreement” with Collins. Will the sides find that threshold?
Let all the false hope begin
That type of aggressive, determined approach is not their style though, so even if they do really want him, I don't expect them to actually land him.
More than likely, Dallas would like to dump Porzingis to get Collins...
Spurs will have a hard time scoring next year, a whole lot of usage between DeRozan and Gay. Collins would definitely help there, I think his offensive game would thrive with SA. He had a down scoring year with all the mouths Atlanta has to feed, but the Spurs won't have anyone who can take touches like Young, maybe not even on the level of Bogdanovic or Gallinari.
Yes, they’ll have a tough time scoring next year that’s why you need shot creators, not catch and shoot guys like John Collins.
They need both but they also need a starting four.
The thing with the need for another shot creator is, there's no room unless Mills is not re-signed or Walker IV is traded.
I will pack their suitcases myself.
Actually, even if both Mills and Walker IV are retained, they could sign someone like Burks anyway and have Walker IV and Samanic on the fringe of the rotation (obviously, if Samanic didn't play, by default Johnson would have to eat the backup four minutes).
That would probably be the last straw for Walker IV though, leading to his requesting a trade.
I think he has some self creation upside. Amar'e was a big time scorer with Nash and a big time scorer with fat Felton. The shots changed, but he didn't turn into Trey Lyles.
That’s assuming PATFO hasn’t hammered it in Walker’s head that he’s not valued much and brainwashed him into thinking he is worth very little contract-wise, a la Poeltl.
with the way Keldon is being used on the USA team, I wouldn’t be surprised if he is still the starting four next year even though maybe he shouldn’t be
Of course they’d love that, but isnt happening. They’ll have to commit like $85-90m just between Luca, KP, and Collins.
Walker IV attempts to put on a brave face, but he hasn't seemed content with his fluctuating playing time/role for a while. I think he believes he's the most talented of the youth and thought that by now he'd be either a burgeoning star or at least a featured offensive player.
I wouldn't read too much into Johnson's role in these exhibitions. Like the Spurs last season, it's mostly a product of roster construction. I'd be surprised if they didn't bring in a starting four of some sort. That doesn't mean he can't and won't still play some four (especially if the starting four is a 4.5 like Collins) though.
The Spurs don't really need play-makers. White's an excellent play-maker, and assuming Murray's back(but you know), the one thing they don't need is a four who wants to do a bunch of dribble-drive . I remain convinced that the Bubble set the Spurs' development back more than it helped. They need to move away from that offense and more toward one that has defined roles and creates shots for off-ball players through movement and leverage rather than though individual creation against set defenses. That doesn't mean they should have a lead guard and four one-dimensional scorers, but it does mean they need a diversity in how they get buckets so they can attack defenses in different ways.
I say this reminder about once a year, but the first option in the Motion Weak offense (otherwise known as the main set during the BG era) is a post-up for the PF. It then flowed into PnRs, cuts for open threes and elbow jumpers. It was basically like, "Okay, so first we get Diaw into a position to score, and if that doesn't work then we give Parker one, then Green, then Tim" and so on. Right now it's like, "Okay so DeMar is has the ball, but they packed the paint harder than he's pounding the air out of the ball. Okay so he passes to Johnson who has a crack of daylight for a thr-- no wait, he's driving. He passes it to Murray, and he's dribbling around the three-point like trying to cross over his man for like 10 seconds. He's got nothing so he passes it to Derrick, who's rising up for a three as the shot-clock expires. At least Jakob is there for a rebound." Obviously, they score some times, and those individual creations can work. But basically everyone is going against their strengths way too much.
It's hard to even be excited about Johnson's potential development, because it's looking like more of that dribble-drive that's going to make the offense even harder to watch. In a vacuum, I'm happy he's looking good in a one-on-one context. But if he's just going to be like that with Murray and White already on the floor, then the offense is going continue to be "inconsistent" at best.
There's no credible argument for the Spurs not needing play-makers. With the current construct, they need an ancillary one and if they ever get serious about trying to build a contender again, they'll need better primary ones than they currently have.The Spurs don't really need play-makers. White's an excellent play-maker, and assuming Murray's back(
I say this reminder about once a year, but the first option in the Motion Weak offense (otherwise known as the main set during the BG era) is a post-up for the PF. It then flowed into PnRs, cuts for open threes and elbow jumpers. It was basically like, "Okay, so first we get Diaw into a position to score, and if that doesn't work then we give Parker one, then Green, then Tim" and so on. Right now it's like, "Okay so DeMar is has the ball, but they packed the paint harder than he's pounding the air out of the ball. Okay so he passes to Johnson who has a crack of daylight for a thr-- no wait, he's driving. He passes it to Murray, and he's dribbling around the three-point like trying to cross over his man for like 10 seconds. He's got nothing so he passes it to Derrick, who's rising up for a three as the shot-clock expires. At least Jakob is there for a rebound." Obviously, they score some times, and those individual creations can work. But basically everyone is going against their strengths way too much.
It's hard to even be excited about Johnson's potential development, because it's looking like more of that dribble-drive that's going to make the offense even harder to watch. In a vacuum, I'm happy he's looking good in a one-on-one context. But if he's just going to be like that with Murray and White already on the floor, then the offense is going continue to be "inconsistent" at best.
White is a solid play maker, but a secondary one. His career assist rate is 19.4%. Primary options are usually around 30% or better.
A four with ball skills is absolutely a need with a starting lineup deficient in them all around (only White could be described as having average or better ones for his position and that's only if you consider him a "SG", as opposed to how he'll actually function which is as minimally the co-primary play maker).
The BG era is irrelevant. They don't have the talent or basketball IQ to pull it off and system offenses are a thing of the past.
yep! If we can have a athletic big who can shoot 3s and cut and dunk, Murray and White will score and set up others easily.The Spurs don't really need play-makers. White's an excellent play-maker, and assuming Murray's back(
I say this reminder about once a year, but the first option in the Motion Weak offense (otherwise known as the main set during the BG era) is a post-up for the PF. It then flowed into PnRs, cuts for open threes and elbow jumpers. It was basically like, "Okay, so first we get Diaw into a position to score, and if that doesn't work then we give Parker one, then Green, then Tim" and so on. Right now it's like, "Okay so DeMar is has the ball, but they packed the paint harder than he's pounding the air out of the ball. Okay so he passes to Johnson who has a crack of daylight for a thr-- no wait, he's driving. He passes it to Murray, and he's dribbling around the three-point like trying to cross over his man for like 10 seconds. He's got nothing so he passes it to Derrick, who's rising up for a three as the shot-clock expires. At least Jakob is there for a rebound." Obviously, they score some times, and those individual creations can work. But basically everyone is going against their strengths way too much.
It's hard to even be excited about Johnson's potential development, because it's looking like more of that dribble-drive that's going to make the offense even harder to watch. In a vacuum, I'm happy he's looking good in a one-on-one context. But if he's just going to be like that with Murray and White already on the floor, then the offense is going continue to be "inconsistent" at best.
Keldon should be a 3. Having him play the 4 is an outlandish waste. If he is playing the 4 that insinuates we did not get ANY bigs on this team AND Luka is only viewed as somebody to eat bench minutes while Keldon rest.
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