Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 Free Agency Discussion Thread

[Chinook]

Tim was in only one of the top five lineups in 13/14 despite being the team's best player.

[The Truth #6]

This is why I want to make minimal changes to our existing structure, just add the draft picks and use the cap space. One of the last games before White sprained his ankle, Pop rested DeRozan and DJ, and we went into Phoenix, and kicked their ing asses. Like the game was never in doubt after the first Q. Let’s see what the team, minus DeRozan and maybe other vets, plus draft picks and player improvements can do.

That is the reasonable thing to do. If we have a coaching change as well, that's another factor already. For me, trading DJM seems unlikely, but I can understand the thought behind it.

[SpursDynasty85]

Tim was in only one of the top five lineups in 13/14 despite being the team's best player.

I still reckon there was no best player on that team. It was a super starless team with as much equal contribution from its top 9 players you could have.

[K...]

A future lakers pick is worth a lot considering the aging lebron an injury prone davis. Sending derozan for a protected first seems fine. An unprotected pick would be straight robbery

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

A future lakers pick is worth a lot considering the aging lebron an injury prone davis. Sending derozan for a protected first seems fine. An unprotected pick would be straight robbery

Unlikely because the earliest first round pick Lakers can trade is 2027. The DDR to Lakers deal is super unlikely for a million reasons.

[duncan2k5]

I still reckon there was no best player on that team. It was a super starless team with as much equal contribution from its top 9 players you could have.

Bull

[lmbebo]

if a LAL deal gets done, it might be the lakers choosing a player for the spurs. A future 1st round pick without protections would be amazing.

[bluebellmaniac]

This is true. Kuzma and Harrell are not on bad contract and should easily be movable to make room to sign DDR out right. Plus a FIRST? Why would they give away their assets to sign Derozan. Players like Love and Wiggins with bad contracts are another story however.

Next seasons Salary Cap is $112M. DMDR is set to make $30M+ next season. So Lakers would have to pare down to Less Than $74M to sign him outright. This includes the cap holds for the rest of the roster after everyone except Bron and Davis are renounced or traded away. Bron and Davis though will make $75M. Thus Lakers need a trade partner to facilitate his signing.

[rankingtear]

I wasn't talking about net-rating about offense, so when he posted about offensive rating, it did more to show how irrelevant that stat is to the point. If that lineup as it functioned last year were truly good enough offensively, people wouldn't be ing about shooters or how DeRozan slows down the offense or whatever. Folks want to simlutaneously use offensive stats to claim Murray, Murray/White and the "hydra offense" but then want to pretend like none of that applies to DeRozan. It's weird, Murray and White are supposed to be some of the best defensive guards in the league, and DeRozan and Mills are supposed to be bad, but we're really going to say the reason why lineups with the latter duo can be part of so many good defensive lineups and Poeltl, who put up some of the best defensive lineups in the league last season, weren't as good as the ones including Eubanks?

My point was countering the idea that more ball-handlers makes the offense better. That's not true. The Spurs had great offensive lineups with one or two ball-handlers and more shooters. Why that reality is reflected more as a product of defensive rating, I don't know. But I know I wouldn't want to be caught having to support the idea that Mills and Gay were the defensive core of the team in order to explain how a championship-level offensive lineup filled with plus defenders led the team to a mediocre-to-bad record despite having a bench that dominated statistically.

It is not pretty because of the lack of player and ball movement and threes. The tradeoff is more offensive rebounds, ball security and free throws. It is a good offense, same ORTG to the 2019 one with 2 off ball players , an offensive anchor and no Murray.

[SpursDynasty85]

Bull

Lol nice to hear from you in a while. Can you explain further?

[SpursDynasty85]

Next seasons Salary Cap is $112M. DMDR is set to make $30M+ next season. So Lakers would have to pare down to Less Than $74M to sign him outright. This includes the cap holds for the rest of the roster after everyone except Bron and Davis are renounced or traded away. Bron and Davis though will make $75M. Thus Lakers need a trade partner to facilitate his signing.

I understand that but why would they just give there assets away when you can trade them and other assets away for future draft picks? Secondly Derozan will probably not make $30M+ unless it was on like a 1-2 year deal. You could trade your first round pick this year for someone's first round pick next year. You could trade Kuzma and Harrell for another future first rounder because their contracts are pretty good. Likely Lakers will want something in return for them even if they have to give up more in some way or fashion other than dumping them and replacing them with Derozan. It would be an idiotic trade on Lakers part.

[EricB]

would you max a 24 year old whos averaging 16, 7, 5 and improving day by day?

many people want to trade him.

his name is Dejounte Murray.

not me. However if he was part of a deal to improve the team I wouldn’t hesitate. I don’t want to deal anyone to just make a deal, but I’m not for giving anyone away either.

[Chinook]

It is not pretty because of the lack of player and ball movement and threes. The tradeoff is more offensive rebounds, ball security and free throws. It is a good offense, same ORTG to the 2019 one with 2 off ball players , an offensive anchor and no Murray.

No idea which lineups you're comparing to which, as the only constants in 2019 were Aldridge, DeRozan and Forbes. If we're trying to say the Spurs this year were able to reach the heights of the Cun-units, then I guess. Is the quintessential lineup the one with a healthy White or the one when he was still hurt? We are talking about games with Bertans as the starter or Gay? The 2021 unit has the benefit of being isolated to only when White and the others were healthy. Without him, the Murray, DeRozan, Johnson and Poeltl unit wasn't nearly as potent. Just as with a lot of systems, talent can make up for a lot.

A lot of things happened in the second half of the season. Injuries and illnesses obviously slowed the team down. But a big thing that happened was SA's offense being scouted and solved for, because it turns out that unless you're facing a team of superstars, taking turns breaking down defenses is pretty easy to stop. It's one of the reasons why the bubble was such a set-back for the team. They caught a lot of clubs off guard with how they played, but teams don't do that without great talents for a reason.

[bluebellmaniac]

I understand that but why would they just give there assets away when you can trade them and other assets away for future draft picks? Secondly Derozan will probably not make $30M+ unless it was on like a 1-2 year deal. You could trade your first round pick this year for someone's first round pick next year. You could trade Kuzma and Harrell for another future first rounder because their contracts are pretty good. Likely Lakers will want something in return for them even if they have to give up more in some way or fashion other than dumping them and replacing them with Derozan. It would be an idiotic trade on Lakers part.

Because you gut the team doing it your way and Bron's window closes without another shot at a championship.

It would set them up for a better team down the road but that is not the Lakers way.

[Dejounte]

“Hydra offense” would look aesthetically pleasing if the players who ran it were more creative/ gifted in scoring. At this moment, they are not. It does allow them to develop their offense more than any type of offense would, and that’s as good as it gets when you have young players.

[Chinook]

“Hydra offense” would look aesthetically pleasing if the players who ran it were more creative/ gifted in scoring. At this moment, they are not. It does allow them to develop their offense more than any type of offense would, and that’s as good as it gets when you have young players.

You can develop off-ball offense as well. It's not like those guys have mastered cuts, screens and roll and are now trying to evolve. If you don't have an offense that creates those off-ball opportunities, then that part of your game get stunted, and it makes it harder for the next guy to come in and learn to play off-ball offense, and the cycle continues

[Dejounte]

You can develop off-ball offense as well. It's not like those guys have mastered cuts, screens and roll and are now trying to evolve. If you don't have an offense that creates those off-ball opportunities, then that part of your game get stunted, and it makes it harder for the next guy to come in and learn to play off-ball offense, and the cycle continues

Eh, I’ll disagree here. At no point during the season were our guys having issues getting open. There were plenty of open guys on catch and shoot 3s. It’s a matter of making them.

[TD 21]

I think this is a poor way to determining skills at making plays. The Spurs haven't used a primary play-maker in years. They did have ball-dominant players in DeRozan and Murray, but that's not the same thing as saying those where the top play-makers. That and White being the only one of the trio whose three was enough to keep him buoyant meant he was a finisher off passes way more than he might be in a bigger role. Derrick was assisted on his shots at the highest rate of his career. In terms of two-pointers his assisted rate was double that of DMDR and DJM. That suggests that him passing to them probably resulted in them not taking shots or driving into what they considered better positions and ruining the assist opportunities. White being on the court made it easier for DeRozan and Murray to get assists, but not the other way around.

Also, the Spurs aren't contenders and can afford to let guys like Johnson and Vassell try to grow as play-makers in lesser roles. That's something that harder to do with Murray and DeRozan for reasons I mentioned above. Certainly for Johnson, it seems like the Spurs want him to get better in that regard. Collins absorbing a bunch of usage with his extremely high AFG% gives White and the others another obvious target for passes should make his job and those of the young wings easier.



Definitely not. You don't have to sell me on the idea that the smalls in the lineup need to be better. But you don't fix that by trying to add another driver to the lineup. You swap out some of the not-good-enough perimeter players, which I've been proposing for a while now.



Or, or the Spurs could actually implement a system. Like I get in today's NBA there's a better chance at success if you have stars who can dominate and guys who can score chaotically. But if you don't have stars who can dominate, then having a system offense can make you better than the sum of your parts. Ask Miami about system offenses. I don't presume the Spurs are basketball savants, but they aren't dunces. At this point, there should be little credible opposition to running an offense, given the lack of clout on the roster. Collins has made it clear he'd welcome more offensive structure, so he wouldn't argue. It's just the smarter move given where the team is, and they can revisit it as their situation changes.

It's not the only way, but it gives you a glimpse into one's ability. I'm not saying White isn't probably (Jones?) the best play maker under contract, I'm saying he's not a primary one.

Yeah, because they haven't had one.

Sure, if they want to tank, but everything they've shown us in the past 3 seasons indicates otherwise.

Not another "driver" per se, just someone who can drive a closeout and make plays against a rotating defense. They need as much of that as they can muster.

The youth doesn't have the basketball IQ for it and even if they did, this is an organization that needs to modernize their approach in so many ways, not continue to or revert to doing things that clearly turn off the majority of American millennials.

What "system" would that be? Butler/Dragic p-n-r, Adebayo d-ho's, etc. doesn't cons ute that; that's typical NBA stuff, predicated on their best personnel's strengths.

[tbdog]

The DDR to Lakers for Kuzma and KCP is intriguing, especially if Spurs can manage to get Collins on a max and bring back Mills and Dieng. I don't foresee KCP as a long term piece for the Spurs as he'll naturally eat into Vassell and Walkers minutes. But that's a pretty deep team.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The DDR to Lakers for Kuzma and KCP is intriguing, especially if Spurs can manage to get Collins on a max and bring back Mills and Dieng. I don't foresee KCP as a long term piece for the Spurs as he'll naturally eat into Vassell and Walkers minutes. But that's a pretty deep team.

Not completely opposed to a trade with LA. DDR is a good fit with that group.

[mo7888]

There's a good bit of chatter today on Twitter about our interest in Simmons again. I'm still not sure I buy that but, some in the Spurs Twitter universe keep insisting that we'd have to give up a ton of future assets for him. I'm not so sure that's what Philly would want unless ots a multi team deal sending our assets elsewhere for other players. I think they'd prefer a S&T or a straight up deal for DJ + White. Thoughts?

[PrimeMinister]

There's a good bit of chatter today on Twitter about our interest in Simmons again. I'm still not sure I buy that but, some in the Spurs Twitter universe keep insisting that we'd have to give up a ton of future assets for him. I'm not so sure that's what Philly would want unless ots a multi team deal sending our assets elsewhere for other players. I think they'd prefer a S&T or a straight up deal for DJ + White. Thoughts?

his contract is severely limiting from a team building perspective

he has 0 foundation by which to build a jump shot or begin to work. 0 mechanical consistency, well do ented struggles at the line. Questionable desire to work outside of the scheduled team .

there’s a path way to a team build around versatile front court players to pair with him to essentially be co rim weak side help defenders depending on the offensive attack. I could see in a purely hypothetical scenario a player like Collins being an intriguing pairing- not to say I want to see them make the moves to make that happen.

Im rambling a bit but I guess I view Simmons as a ball handler on offense but his limitations make it so he needs to be in line ups where he is essentially the center from a spacing perspective. You really get away with at most 1 non shooter on the floor at any given time to have an effective offense today. Is it worth the payroll commitment to a player that is that non shooter, yet probably is more of a super switchable 4 defensively than he is a true rim protecting 5?

in my opinion, he is an albatross on the level of Porzingis.

[Dejounte]

I don’t buy the rumor specifically because of Ben’s reputation of not really being tough enough (per Danny Green’s quote). Pop would eat him alive and drama will ensue.

[TD 21]

There's a good bit of chatter today on Twitter about our interest in Simmons again. I'm still not sure I buy that but, some in the Spurs Twitter universe keep insisting that we'd have to give up a ton of future assets for him. I'm not so sure that's what Philly would want unless ots a multi team deal sending our assets elsewhere for other players. I think they'd prefer a S&T or a straight up deal for DJ + White. Thoughts?

The only possibility I could see is something like this . . .

To Cavaliers: Murray, Milton . . . signed, affordable, better fitting young starter, young rotational guard and rid themselves of unwanted contract.

To 76ers: DeRozan (sign and trade), White, Spurs top 5 protected '22 1st . . . prime, go-to shot creator, malleable jack of all trades type and potential valuable young asset.

To Spurs: Simmons, Sexton, Osman . . . young foundational players and take on a salary dump.

Johnson/Samanic
Vassell/Osman/Jeffries?
Poeltl/Dieng?/Eubanks
Sexton/Walker IV
Simmons/Mills?/Jones

12th pick, 41st pick?

[Mr. Body]

Character issues aside... wait, no, character issues. Na. Ga. Happen.