I forgot how I worded it (maybe I worded it wrong, tbh) but looking at the stats, you can see the difference. Previously, White has basically been the small forward when sharing the court with DeRozan and Murray. Instead of being the playmaker he was in the Bubble, he's been relegated to spot-up shooter. He got to handle the ball a lot more in the Phoenix game and we saw a good amount of carry over in the Indiana game, specifically taking away DeRozan touches and giving them to White.
Touches Per Game (Before PHX Game)
DeRozan 58.8
White 44.7
Touches in Pacers Game
White 58
DeRozan 54
Time of Possession (Before PHX Game)
DeRozan 5.4
White 2.9
Time of Possession in Pacers Game
White 4.0
DeRozan 3.9
To my eye, it looked like a purposefully shift toward White. We'll see going forward, though. I think it'd be the right move because White needs to be more involved than simply being the designated floor spacer.
Ah, "main ball handler" to me meant a shift from Murray, not DeMar.
It's not surprising that the team looks better when it's less DeMar. That's why people state over and over that the team won't be in a disastrous state when DeMar has moved on. There hasn't been much data, but after more of these games where DeMar touches the ball less or is out of the line-up the data will catch up with what people see when they watch the games.
Hmm, those handling possessions didn't quite catch my eyes (got a timestamp by any chance?), but he did post a great statline of 16/7/1/2/1 on 7/10 shooting with 2 TOs before fouling out. Quite the productive evening, and it's funny that through the season, it's becoming normalized to see Jakob scoring in the double digits, to the point where it's not even a commendable thing (didn't see a single comment about it in the game thread nor this one). Quite the shift from folks saying he was a non-factor on offense and an overpaid scrub, tbh, that crowd is real quiet nowadays...
It's pretty clear the chemistry Jakob has with White. I've been saying this since last season, but they're a special duo, and in no small part due to White's great decision-making in the PnR and excellent passes to feed Poeltl easy bunnies. I'd expect Jakob to keep on being productive on O as long as DW keeps being a featured part of the offense (remember folks saying we shouldn't have to wait for White to be back to judge Poeltl's lack of offensive scoring production*, when he had Dejounte ball-handling as the next-best-thing?). I'm still not convinced the DJ-DW pairing can get the Spurs anywhere relevant, and would still like to sell high on Dejounte, and a good part of that is how White's game really gets unlocked when he's trusted with the ball. Having to wait for his "turn" by standing on the perimeter as DeRozan and Murray jack up long two's is not a winning formula for him.
Last edited by Sugus; 04-20-2021 at 09:20 PM.
No love for Murray's improved chemistry with Poeltl? Tsk, tsk...Hmm, those handling possessions didn't quite catch my eyes (got a timestamp by any chance?), but he did post a great statline of 16/7/1/2/1 on 7/10 shooting with 2 TOs before fouling out. Quite the productive evening, and it's funny that through the season, it's becoming normalized to see Jakob scoring in the double digits, to the point where it's not even a commendable thing (didn't see a single comment about it in the game thread nor this one). Quite the shift from folks saying he was a non-factor on offense and an overpaid scrub, tbh, that crowd is real quiet nowadays...
It's pretty clear the chemistry Jakob has with White. I've been saying this since last season, but they're a special duo, and in no small part due to White's great decision-making in the PnR and excellent passes to feed Poeltl easy bunnies. I'd expect Jakob to keep on being productive on O as long as DW keeps being a featured part of the offense (remember folks saying we shouldn't have to wait for White to be back to judge Poeltl's lack of offense, when he had Dejounte ball-handling as the next-best-thing?
What would it take you to be convinced of the pairing?
Hmm, have I not been paying close enough attention? I haven't seen much of this newfound chemistry you speak of, mind some clips? I know you got 'em ready to be fired up already :P
Tbh, it's more a continued distrust of Dejounte's ceiling as a player. He's gotten real good this season, no denying that, but I still see fundamental flaws that can and will get exploited in a playoff series. His dribbling skills are still nowhere near top-of-the-league (the user MannyIsGod, I don't know his exact handle but I'd @ him, replied to me in a thread i can't find now a couple days ago, asking how DJ could be schemed out of a game: attacking his handle and even a full-court press is the easiest, and sadly very realistic, option). His passing is still very basic, in that it gets the job done, but doesn't really justify his being a full-time PG when you also have White on the court, who's IMO a much-better decision maker, has better PnR chemistry/activity, has a better "feel" for when to attack and when to distribute (as opposed to DJ being exclusively a score-first PG most of the time, White can do both depending on necessity, and has the better court vision and passing instincts). Matter-of-factly, if Dejounte's 3pt shot were even league average (I don't care about % but willingness to shoot instead, and DJ's well below league-average there), and the Spurs weren't so dead-set in their ways, I'd say the pairing would have a higher ceiling with White at PG and Dejounte as a 3-level scoring SG.
So yeah, it's not really about the Dejounte-Poeltl chemistry and whether it's good or bad, but more about whether I see DJ as a long-term piece for the Spurs or not. Against popular opinion, I'd rather sell high on him now that IMO, he's getting close to his ceiling (he'd be worth at least two FRP if the Spurs could negotiate for ). I'm not saying White is a sure-fire long term piece either, but I can realistically see him fitting better with whatever team the Spurs would want to build moving forward.
In 2019-20, White was the #1 PnR ball handler, minimum 100 possessions. That includes passing to a roller, kicking out, and scoring himself.
It isn't about whether White is the better distributor-- my question to Sugus was what it would take for him to be convinced that they could work in tandem. If we're talking about the point guard role itself, I don't necessarily believe the role should even go to the best distributor. Tony Parker was never that. In the Spurs system, it appears Pop wants the point guard to have a reliable go-to move when no one else can make a bucket. Parker has his floater, and I think they're betting on Murray's mid-range game to be it. I don't think a 3-point shot can ever be that go-to move unless you're Steph Curry.
Interesting and something I’ll watch out for. White has been so inconsistent but also injured that I attributed a lot to his injuries and lack of confidence. Catching up now, I’ll watch out for aspects like this. It will be interesting to see how he gets set loose next year if (when) Demar leaves.Hmm, those handling possessions didn't quite catch my eyes (got a timestamp by any chance?), but he did post a great statline of 16/7/1/2/1 on 7/10 shooting with 2 TOs before fouling out. Quite the productive evening, and it's funny that through the season, it's becoming normalized to see Jakob scoring in the double digits, to the point where it's not even a commendable thing (didn't see a single comment about it in the game thread nor this one). Quite the shift from folks saying he was a non-factor on offense and an overpaid scrub, tbh, that crowd is real quiet nowadays...
It's pretty clear the chemistry Jakob has with White. I've been saying this since last season, but they're a special duo, and in no small part due to White's great decision-making in the PnR and excellent passes to feed Poeltl easy bunnies. I'd expect Jakob to keep on being productive on O as long as DW keeps being a featured part of the offense (remember folks saying we shouldn't have to wait for White to be back to judge Poeltl's lack of offense, when he had Dejounte ball-handling as the next-best-thing?
I get that DJ had all those weaknesses prior to this season. It's hard to shed weaknesses you are known for unless the player has shown the improvement on it on a consistent basis and for some time. When you think for a while that way, it's easy for the improvements to go unnoticed because there's a perception there, and that perception downplays a lot of things that would otherwise be impressive if the mind didn't have preconceived biases towards a particular weakness.
Listen, I don't want you to take my word for it-- I suggest going into the next game with an open mind (or maybe the game after that, since DJ is bound to have a bad game every now and then).
I don't think a point guard like Murray can have "basic vision" when the rate of frequency which Murray has been accruing assists in bunches (a couple games ago, he had 5 assists in the first quarter alone) is increasing.
Please note:
1) Some of these passes may seem "simple" but compare and contrast that with DeMar, who often gets 2 feet within Poeltl, and seemingly NEVER can make a pass to him.
2) There are some very good passes that Poeltl missed the shot on, and these are harder to find.
See below:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Ga...0AST)&sct=plot
Last edited by Dejounte; 04-20-2021 at 09:49 PM.
I wanna believe this will be a turning point for the team but we know Rudy and Patty will still be playing too many minutes while Vassell continues sitting.
Prove me wrong that the team doesn’t just finish at a .500 record at best and barely misses the play in.
why are we still trying to win games? smh
Pop needs to get his record.
Because there's no big difference whether they get #11 pick or #14?
Too late for a proper tank.
I agree about DJ being the shooting guard. If he could agree to that, and allow White to be the main decision-maker then I will hold off on trading DJ, or at least give it one more year, especially without DDR around to see how it goes. Let DV take DDR’s starting spot and see what we have. Obviously, you can do that right now at least for a few games before the season is over, but I don’t see them doing that.
Its obvious. There is a transition. Team is getting younger and they will play to win. It's the best way to become a contender quickly. Purposely losing will damage our younger guys development.
I see tanking as a coaching decision on which players to play. I don’t see young players losing on purpose because they are all competing for minutes and the next contract. But overall, I see your point about not purposefully losing. My counter is that our young players are better than our veterans.
I actually think our young guys are learning a lot playing with the veterans. I think this year and the bubble was purposely for competing/and teaching our young guys with experience. I will say our young guys need to be given a few more chances to play more but I am overall satisfied (not happy) with the amount of time our young guys have gotten. I have seen Luka in the G League and he is "DEFINITELY" not ready and if he played over some, locker room would start to "sour". Vets want to join a team where they are playing to win and so obviously a lot of this is also about setting a precedent that young guys have to clearly play better than the veterans to play which drives compe ion and brings about a culture for future veterans to want to play.
If you are a small market team in rebuild, not sure any meaningful veterans are looking at Orlando or OKC right now, as examples.
I actually think we are one key veteran signing away from easily being in the playoffs next year. Thats pretty good considering we were supposed to be rebuilding just 3 years ago.
If they were to completely fall out of the playin tournament, only then would Pop play the rest of the season that way... but this seems like it will go down to the wire like last year...
To a predictable outcome... I am hoping for white to go supernova again if I am honest.
I appreciate comments like this since I haven’t watched him there and highlights can be misleading. I am also concerned that he’s not ready for a regular spot. It’s just difficult to trust Pop’s judgment bc he’ll hold out someone young from playing time for arbitrary reasons that only make sense to him.
No it isn't. Based on what? You need talent before you work on reps. None of the young kids we have project to be star/franchise talent, which is what this team is missing.
Plus, it's a red-herring, there's clearly a pecking order on this team, and the vets are at the top.
Lmao I knew you had it ready to go, thanks for the clips my guy. I'll certainly follow your advice and watch him with an open mind and more intensive focus the next few games... Though I don't think it'll have any effect on my preference of selling high on him. Even if his skills marginally improve, he's still not the kind of player you build a team around offensively IMO. It'd take a big jump, an impossible jump maybe, to get him into the top crop of NBA PGs. His instincts alone are not something I'm confident he could ever develop to that level, not to mention handles/first step/craftiness.
The chemistry with Jakob thing was really interesting... Some of those passes looked like "bailouts" where DJ had already made up his mind and jumped or started to shoot, but changed his mind mid-air, and Jakob was just casually there to take the pass. But many others were legit good reads. It's interesting that most of those are bounce passes, I wonder why; I see Derrick passing more into the high air, on contrast. On the whole though, tbh, these clips don't really fight with my notion that DJ makes mostly "basic" level passes; none of those clips wooed me in the slightest, like other players' would. He's just not that gifted as a passer - and even in some instances where Poeltl was wide open, he takes a second too long to notice and exploit that. Playoff defenses aren't gonna give you those seconds... Opportunities can be nail-thin, and I don't see DJ exploiting them with nearly enough regularity to call passing a strength of his game. He's just ok. Is he improving? Sure is, but I don't see him making "that jump".
Btw, DJ's definitely better at playing the Jakob game than DeRozan is, no question about it
R.I.P. Vassell and Luka's development, all because Pop wants to "do right" by his vets and get them nice big contracts this summer
ok whether it is the best way is hard to know but them not blowing it up like most teams would’ve done and seeing how hard it is to go from bottom to top as a small market team tells me that I’m satisfied with their draft picks and timing of everything so far. Obviously it’s been tough along the way but a little perspective comes along way and I’m genuinely excited to see our young guys grow and can see the vets have had a really positive impact on them.
Like he was going to keep Marco and Bryn last summer, right?
If you enjoy just watching the kids grow and then bolt because this team is perennial first round fodder at best, I'm not going to take that away from you, and you should definitely enjoy it.
I will agree with you there's no guarantees that blowing it up is going to make things better sooner, but I don't know of any other way in this league to acquire star talent than outright throwing stupid money at them or the picking wisely when you have high draft picks.
I also agree the Spurs are on a small market, so just having money in hand doesn't guarantee anything either, unfortunately.
Would love the team to take a page out of your avatar, faking a number of injuries so we can land the #1 pick again, tbh...
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
