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  1. #51
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    I don't give a if the Nets win the next 5 les. No le that KD has ever one should mean anything. He did what lebron was doing with the teaming up and took it to the extreme. Can you imagine the most lethal scorer in the NBA in Bernard King joining the sixer with Moses, Dr J, Cheeks, Jones, Toney, and a rookie Barkley in the summer of 84 after they didn't defend their le? This is what KD azz did
    I agree with you.

  2. #52
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    No one on that list could, or would, have spent their career in San Antonio and been able to win 5 les the way Tim did.

    For all of LeBronís so-called dominance, he couldnít win a le without a super-team put around him. No one has done more with less than Tim Duncan. Hard to deny MJís impact on basketball, but if you look at who surrounded each of the guys when they were winning les itís hard to push Duncan out of the top two or three greatest of all-time.
    All facts!!

  3. #53
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Magic never had HIV. He just got pressed by the gay mafia to say he had it so people stop viewing it as a disease that only gots got

  4. #54
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    No one on that list could, or would, have spent their career in San Antonio and been able to win 5 les the way Tim did.

    For all of LeBronís so-called dominance, he couldnít win a le without a super-team put around him. No one has done more with less than Tim Duncan. Hard to deny MJís impact on basketball, but if you look at who surrounded each of the guys when they were winning les itís hard to push Duncan out of the top two or three greatest of all-time.
    I've always said, that Jordan is not winning a le or coming out of the west with that 2003 spurs squad in place of Duncan and he's not winning with that 94 Houston squad either. I don't give a damn what espn says

  5. #55
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    Magic never had HIV. He just got pressed by the gay mafia to say he had it so people stop viewing it as a disease that only gots got
    It's hard to argue this. That man has been living for 30 years with HIV and he's putting on weight like a mf. is bull

  6. #56
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    Lebron never did anything to solidify himself as greater than Tim. It was always going to be an uphill battle when his career got off to a slow start winning-wise, while Tim had the best start to a career of any player in history (I think he was the only player ever to be 1st team all-NBA and 1st-team all-defense for his first 8 seasons, in addition to the team success). Lebron did a lot of catching up in the second half of his career, but still not enough to pass Tim IMO.

    The fact that Tim fared favorably against Lebron head-to-head just further drives it home. He got absolutely punked by the Spurs in '07 and '14, and he was very fortunate to win in '13. With a different bounce of the ball in game 6, Tim was winning FMVP at age 37.

    When Tim said "this is gonna be your league soon" back in '07, he probably didn't think it was going to take another 5 years for Lebron to win his first ring. It did become his league, but...not as quickly or not as decisively as some people expected.
    With some help from the league.

  7. #57
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Actually agree with a lot of the reactions I saw tbh. Love Timmy, but he isn't on the same level as Jordan or Lebron. He's right around 5 imo.
    Duncan won les without a Pippen caliber player, and the WCF was a bloodbath - much better than the East during Jordan's career
    Also lol at Magic over Bird

  8. #58
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    No one on that list could, or would, have spent their career in San Antonio and been able to win 5 les the way Tim did.

    For all of LeBronís so-called dominance, he couldnít win a le without a super-team put around him. No one has done more with less than Tim Duncan. Hard to deny MJís impact on basketball, but if you look at who surrounded each of the guys when they were winning les itís hard to push Duncan out of the top two or three greatest of all-time.

  9. #59
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    However 91 was the weakest year for the west. No real powerhouses except Portland.But I wonder how much that was bc his body was rested from missing the previous year and a half. Ironically, HIV took his dedication to basketball to a whole new level. I never saw him more motivated than that year.
    He missed the previous year and a half?
    He lost in the West Semis against Phoenix in 1990 and played 79 games in the 90-91 regular season
    And the HIV diagnosis came after the 1991 Finals

  10. #60
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    TOSB Duncan dominates 23-year-old Demarcus Cousins


  11. #61
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    TOSB Duncan just taking it to the young fellow with smarts, physicality, talent, know-how etc. all facets of the game in those 8 minutes. defense, blocks, boards, steals, passing, scoring, positioning

  12. #62
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    He missed the previous year and a half?
    He lost in the West Semis against Phoenix in 1990 and played 79 games in the 90-91 regular season
    And the HIV diagnosis came after the 1991 Finals
    Oh ! You are right. I got my years mixed up. My bad. I was thinking the olympics in 92 for some stupid reason

  13. #63
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    Duncan won les without a Pippen caliber player, and the WCF was a bloodbath - much better than the East during Jordan's career
    Also lol at Magic over Bird
    and as I've stated for years, Jordan isn't winning a le with the 2003 spurs in place of Duncan. It's just not happening. he's not coming out of the west. I don't care which year of Jordan you're talking about

  14. #64
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    Actually agree with a lot of the reactions I saw tbh. Love Timmy, but he isn't on the same level as Jordan or Lebron. He's right around 5 imo.

    1a. Jordan
    1b. Lebron
    3. Kareem
    4. Magic
    5. Tim
    6. Wilt
    7. Bird
    8. Hakeem
    9. Shaq
    10. Russell
    I'm an NBA historian. When I say I studied the NBA and it's history, I studied the entire history dating back to the 1st le in 47. When I'm talking to people in person, without a phone looking up stats, I can instantly tell them who won every championships, every finals mvp since 69(first year), matchups and how the league has promoted and overrated several players. Since the late 90s, I always said that Jordan had an easier job than pippen. Jordan didn't play any serious defense in the playoffs since 1992 guarding Clyde in the finals. Jordan was "hid" on defense and allowed to save all of his energy for offense. I would say this for years and years and people thought i was crazy and said I was "hating". Well, Phil Jackson is an author of many books, and one in particular he mentions this. In Eleven Rings, he states that the bulls didn't protect BJ in the 95 expansion draft because they wanted to continue with Harper because he's longer and can defend multiple positions. This allows Jordan to save his energy for offense. PHIL SAID IT!!!!!! Scottie facilitated, guarded better offensive players, rebounded, and was the 2nd option.. All jordan had to do was score his 30-40+ every game and get credit for everything on the court. Phil was a ing genius. I knew this before the Last Dance. Had Jordan continued to play like he did from 87-89, he would have been wore out. Add in that he took almost 2 years off in his first retirement. Everyone talk about how physical the 80s and 90s were, but the 50s-70s were far worse. Knocking a player's teeth out was a regular foul. Most of the players back then had false teeth.

  15. #65
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    and as I've stated for years, Jordan isn't winning a le with the 2003 spurs in place of Duncan. It's just not happening. he's not coming out of the west. I don't care which year of Jordan you're talking about
    It's kinda a weird statement bc you wouldn't build around Tim like you would Mike. I agree with what you're saying but if we are just going by weak cast then the 98 team for Jordan was very weak. Pippen was a s of himself and hurt. Rodman checked out and ran away from the team. Mike didn't really have a second star that year. The Bulls supporting cast was better than the 03 Spurs supporting cast but not by as great a margin as you think.

  16. #66
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    It's kinda a weird statement bc you wouldn't build around Tim like you would Mike. I agree with what you're saying but if we are just going by weak cast then the 98 team for Jordan was very weak. Pippen was a s of himself and hurt. Rodman checked out and ran away from the team. Mike didn't really have a second star that year. The Bulls supporting cast was better than the 03 Spurs supporting cast but not by as great a margin as you think.
    this is true, but then again, they beat a bunch of teams that never won anything before or after them. And let's not act like the NBA made jordan untouchable. A guy of his status and skill should not require any help from the officials. And they weren't even trying to hid it. . It's what the NBA does. The NBA is the only sports league of the big 3 in which you're fined for criticizing officials. It's also the ONLY sports league in which we know multiple officials and which teams to bet against when they are officiating. Joey Crawford hated the spurs. Dan Crawford hated the Mavs, Bavetta and Joe Crawford were always brought in to extend series. If a team were up 2-0, once you saw that Joe Crawford was the official for game 3 you should bet on the team that was down. The NBA been fixing series. 2012 should have been us vs the Celtics, but Stern was not gonna let that happen. We all know what happened in the 2nd half of game 6 of the WCF and there was no way Boston would beat the heat. In game 7, Lebron shot more freethrows than the whole Celtics squad combined. They don't even try to hide it. And then you have commentators telling us, we're not seeing what we see..

  17. #67
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    this is true, but then again, they beat a bunch of teams that never won anything before or after them. And let's not act like the NBA made jordan untouchable. A guy of his status and skill should not require any help from the officials. And they weren't even trying to hid it. . It's what the NBA does. The NBA is the only sports league of the big 3 in which you're fined for criticizing officials. It's also the ONLY sports league in which we know multiple officials and which teams to bet against when they are officiating. Joey Crawford hated the spurs. Dan Crawford hated the Mavs, Bavetta and Joe Crawford were always brought in to extend series. If a team were up 2-0, once you saw that Joe Crawford was the official for game 3 you should bet on the team that was down. The NBA been fixing series. 2012 should have been us vs the Celtics, but Stern was not gonna let that happen. We all know what happened in the 2nd half of game 6 of the WCF and there was no way Boston would beat the heat. In game 7, Lebron shot more freethrows than the whole Celtics squad combined. They don't even try to hide it. And then you have commentators telling us, we're not seeing what we see..
    Oh man don't even talk to me about the league bs about fixing games and series. I'm all aboard that train. Fisher's miracle .4 shot shouldn't have ever counted by the NBA's own rules that year. They said the most a player could do in.4 seconds was catch and shoot. But fisher got to TURN, catch, and shoot. That right there is already against the rules but Stern loved it and literally changed the rule the next year to a player can turn, catch, and shoot in .4 seconds to cover his ass

    Kobe busted open Bibby's nose. Foul on Bibby. Portland was outshot on the foul line by like 20 in 2000. The Kings by 27 in 2002. Magic couldn't be touched. Mike couldn't be touched. They invented the flagrant foul bc he whined so much. Stern said he wanted Lakers vs Lakers in the finals. Fisher fouled Barry. Duncan fouled out by Dirk stepping on his foot in 06. Wade shot 97 free throws in 6 games. It's WWE in the NBA

  18. #68
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    That .4 still pisses me off. Fisher caught the ball, turned around and faded away in .4 seconds. It's crazy.

  19. #69
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    Oh man don't even talk to me about the league bs about fixing games and series. I'm all aboard that train. Fisher's miracle .4 shot shouldn't have ever counted by the NBA's own rules that year. They said the most a player could do in.4 seconds was catch and shoot. But fisher got to TURN, catch, and shoot. That right there is already against the rules but Stern loved it and literally changed the rule the next year to a player can turn, catch, and shoot in .4 seconds to cover his ass

    Kobe busted open Bibby's nose. Foul on Bibby. Portland was outshot on the foul line by like 20 in 2000. The Kings by 27 in 2002. Magic couldn't be touched. Mike couldn't be touched. They invented the flagrant foul bc he whined so much. Stern said he wanted Lakers vs Lakers in the finals. Fisher fouled Barry. Duncan fouled out by Dirk stepping on his foot in 06. Wade shot 97 free throws in 6 games. It's WWE in the NBA
    We can write a book about the whole thing lol

    The Laimbeer phamtom foul on Kareem in 88

    1992 Finals : Drexler wasnít allowed to guard Jordan, especially in the first 2 games, a lot of imaginary and 1s and shooting fouls
    If you watch highlights of MJ vs Clyde pre-summer of 1990 (before Stern decide to make Baldy untouchable) you will see it was another story when Clyde was allowed to D him up

    1993 was juicy too :

    - ECF game 5, and Iím not talking about the Charles Smith play I donít think he was fouled, but the whole night Jordan was bailed out by the referees
    - in the middle of the Conference Finals, NBC aired an NBA Finals promo featuring Jordan vs Barkley
    - And for good measure, the league made sure that matchup happened, in game 7 the Suns shot 64 FTís while also fouling out Eddie Johnson who was red hot that night and other key Sonics

    - 2001 : The Bucks were robbed in the ECF, Stern wanted AI vs Kobe, Sixers vs Lakers
    Milwaukee was so good that year, and they beat the Lakers soundly in the regular season that year

  20. #70
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    We can write a book about the whole thing lol

    The Laimbeer phamtom foul on Kareem in 88

    1992 Finals : Drexler wasnít allowed to guard Jordan, especially in the first 2 games, a lot of imaginary and 1s and shooting fouls
    If you watch highlights of MJ vs Clyde pre-summer of 1990 (before Stern decide to make Baldy untouchable) you will see it was another story when Clyde was allowed to D him up

    1993 was juicy too :

    - ECF game 5, and Iím not talking about the Charles Smith play I donít think he was fouled, but the whole night Jordan was bailed out by the referees
    - in the middle of the Conference Finals, NBC aired an NBA Finals promo featuring Jordan vs Barkley
    - And for good measure, the league made sure that matchup happened, in game 7 the Suns shot 64 FTís while also fouling out Eddie Johnson who was red hot that night and other key Sonics

    - 2001 : The Bucks were robbed in the ECF, Stern wanted AI vs Kobe, Sixers vs Lakers
    Milwaukee was so good that year, and they beat the Lakers soundly in the regular season that year
    absolutely everything you stated is correct. After game 2 and Jordan playing like in the ECF, Stern made sure the knicks didn't win another game. And that game 7 of Seattle against the suns was a goddamn disgrace. Also, there was just shady officiating all around in that 92 finals. But jordan was Stern's guy. Tim Donaghy wasn't lying about in his book. if he was lying, then he could have been sued by the NBA and Bavetta, whom he accused of trying to fix a game against the Spurs when they played the Nuggets. No one sued him because he isn't lying. I'd say the 2013 finals was well officiated. Even though we loss, thanks to Popovich and Ginobili throwing the series, we weren't cheated.

    here is a fun fact for you.. That infamous game in which Jordan and reggie miller fought, only Miller was ejected. The league only suspended jordan later when the Pacers made a stink about it in the media. haha. Imagine that.. 2 guys are fighting in an NBA game, but the one who started it is allowed to remain in the game.

  21. #71
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    absolutely everything you stated is correct. After game 2 and Jordan playing like in the ECF, Stern made sure the knicks didn't win another game. And that game 7 of Seattle against the suns was a goddamn disgrace. Also, there was just shady officiating all around in that 92 finals. But jordan was Stern's guy. Tim Donaghy wasn't lying about in his book. if he was lying, then he could have been sued by the NBA and Bavetta, whom he accused of trying to fix a game against the Spurs when they played the Nuggets. No one sued him because he isn't lying. I'd say the 2013 finals was well officiated. Even though we loss, thanks to Popovich and Ginobili throwing the series, we weren't cheated.
    Sternís 1st season as a commish : 84 Finals, Lakers are gifted game 6 because Stern knew game 7 would be must see TV

  22. #72
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Oh ! You are right. I got my years mixed up. My bad. I was thinking the olympics in 92 for some stupid reason

  23. #73
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    absolutely everything you stated is correct. After game 2 and Jordan playing like in the ECF, Stern made sure the knicks didn't win another game. And that game 7 of Seattle against the suns was a goddamn disgrace. Also, there was just shady officiating all around in that 92 finals. But jordan was Stern's guy. Tim Donaghy wasn't lying about in his book. if he was lying, then he could have been sued by the NBA and Bavetta, whom he accused of trying to fix a game against the Spurs when they played the Nuggets. No one sued him because he isn't lying. I'd say the 2013 finals was well officiated. Even though we loss, thanks to Popovich and Ginobili throwing the series, we weren't cheated.

    here is a fun fact for you.. That infamous game in which Jordan and reggie miller fought, only Miller was ejected. The league only suspended jordan later when the Pacers made a stink about it in the media. haha. Imagine that.. 2 guys are fighting in an NBA game, but the one who started it is allowed to remain in the game.
    Sorry to butt in, and I'm not disproving anything else that you've written, but the part I bolded about the sue - yeah, it doesn't work like that at all. It's not that "telling the truth" gives you any kind of immunity against being sued, nor that the NBA/Stern/whomever wouldn't sue someone defaming their product simply because, deep down, they know it was true. It's simply a case of reverse-Barbra Streissand effect: if they'd sued, regardless of who won the lawsuit (if it didn't come to an off-court settlement like these cases usually go), the case would've garnered huge publicity and media attention, especially in the wake of Donaghy's betting coming to light. It would've jeopardized the entire credibility of the NBA, let alone Stern as a commish and the ref association as a whole.

    By not doing anything about Donaghy's book and declarations/accusations, they were able to let it fly relatively under the radar for the casual & mainstream public, except for the obvious portion of hardcore NBA fans that would've always known the truth anyways. Donaghy's reputation was already in the drain and it's simply much easier to attack his credibility by not doing a single thing about what he says, exactly so casuals would assume that "if it were true, the NBA would've done something to shut him up/punish him!!".

  24. #74
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Actually agree with a lot of the reactions I saw tbh. Love Timmy, but he isn't on the same level as Jordan or Lebron. He's right around 5 imo.

    1a. Jordan
    1b. Lebron
    3. Kareem
    4. Magic
    5. Tim
    6. Wilt
    7. Bird
    8. Hakeem
    9. Shaq
    10. Russell
    BS he is far better than Queen stat PED enhanced James who is 4-6 in finals despite choosing teams.

  25. #75
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    People here disrespecting Manu and Tony, ridiculous. I'm one of the biggest Timmy fan but there is no way he's top 2 player ever. His bball IQ is top 2 but not overall, MWP needs to be drug tested tbh.

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