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  1. #51
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Lol, two pages of arguing whether DeFrozen is clutch or not 'cause he makes a couple buckets that he immediately gives back on the other end, but no mention of my guy Blockob "can't be compared to Gobert" Turtle with yet another impressive outing. Guy posted 5 (should've been 6 had DW not blocked that one shot too!) blocks, some solid rebounds, and most importantly, 100% on his FTs with a better form to boot. Insane how underrated he is on this Expert Filled board tbh. I'm currently on the theory that since most posters were embarrassingly wrong about him and his contract, it's easier to pretend that he doesn't exist rather than staining those "I've never once had a bad or wrong take on here!!" resumés....

    Also, my guy Dejounte, I know we're probably gonna disagree on this as well, but the number of other posters furthering my theory that White just runs the offense better is interesting. It's just a marked difference, and I don't even know what stats could "back it up" beyond the eye test - it's just there. I'm not into pitting him and Dejounte against each other as you said, but it's clear that we should sell high on one of them, not only to recoup and gather assets that can get us that #1 guy we're missing, but also to allow the other one to blossom with full reign of the offense. I'm not one to usually agree with Mr Luck over here (though ironically, we tend to agree in a lot of takes, more than he'd like to admit...), but it's dead true that the offensive firepower with both of them at 1-2 is insufficient in this modern NBA, especially shooting-wise. Watching ing Lnzo Bll drain stepback 3's over our guards, and knowing none of our own could pull off that move if they wanted to, was funny in a bad way...

  2. #52
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Lol, two pages of arguing whether DeFrozen is clutch or not 'cause he makes a couple buckets that he immediately gives back on the other end, but no mention of my guy Blockob "can't be compared to Gobert" Turtle with yet another impressive outing. Guy posted 5 (should've been 6 had DW not blocked that one shot too!) blocks, some solid rebounds, and most importantly, 100% on his FTs with a better form to boot. Insane how underrated he is on this Expert Filled board tbh. I'm currently on the theory that since most posters were embarrassingly wrong about him and his contract, it's easier to pretend that he doesn't exist rather than staining those "I've never once had a bad or wrong take on here!!" resumés....

    Also, my guy Dejounte, I know we're probably gonna disagree on this as well, but the number of other posters furthering my theory that White just runs the offense better is interesting. It's just a marked difference, and I don't even know what stats could "back it up" beyond the eye test - it's just there. I'm not into pitting him and Dejounte against each other as you said, but it's clear that we should sell high on one of them, not only to recoup and gather assets that can get us that #1 guy we're missing, but also to allow the other one to blossom with full reign of the offense. I'm not one to usually agree with Mr Luck over here (though ironically, we tend to agree in a lot of takes, more than he'd like to admit...), but it's dead true that the offensive firepower with both of them at 1-2 is insufficient in this modern NBA, especially shooting-wise. Watching ing Lnzo Bll drain stepback 3's over our guards, and knowing none of our own could pull off that move if they wanted to, was funny in a bad way...
    Bro,

    You can't mock the posters on this board and then proceed to lean on their opinion on a separate topic to prove a point. That's not how it works

    Finally, like I've always said: the duo has improved every season. It's again a narrow point of view to say they don't score enough and seemingly use Lonzo's one hot shooting night as an example..... does. not. make. sense. given that DJ & White both individually score more than Lonzo, and Murray shoots a better overall FG% than Lonzo even if he's not better at 3 PT %. The DJ & White duo outscores the Lonzo & Bledsoe duo as well, and that's with the former's average age being younger. In fact, I think you'll find it surprising to learn that the DJ & White duo outscores a lot of other NBA duos in the league. That's with DeMar hogging up all the possessions, and the fact that this is really their first year as a duo.

  3. #53
    Believe. GAustex's Avatar
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    Did you notice Bledsoe wasn’t playing at the important minutes?

  4. #54
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    You hear that, y'all? I'm "anti-Spurs".

    You're not coming back with a legitimate argument against the way I'm presenting the stats. When you have a real rebuttal backed with facts and data, come back to me. There's not a productive conversation to be had when all you do is act dismissive.
    I just showed the clutch results and then you choose net rating. Go and trade for rozier. We'll be clutch masters according to you

  5. #55
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I just showed the clutch results and then you choose net rating. Go and trade for rozier. We'll be clutch masters according to you
    Another lie. I used your "clutch results" and the data in them.

  6. #56
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Another lie. I used your "clutch results" and the data in them.
    In net rating

  7. #57
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    The column header says "C-L-T-C-H"

  8. #58
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    The website uses more adv shots across the board for a more refined approach to analyse clutch. And DDR is top 15. Your again looking at one category and not a broader spectrum. Again, confirmation bias.

  9. #59
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    The website uses more adv shots across the board for a more refined approach to analyse clutch. And DDR is top 15. Your again looking at one category and not a broader spectrum. Again, confirmation bias.
    This is like talking to a brick wall...

    My guess is you don't know how to interpret the data you provided.

    I'm asking you to EXPLAIN where you are getting "top 15" from.

  10. #60
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I just don't get the DeRozan homers... Why would so many advanced stats be so kind to Duncan, Ginobili, Lebron, Jokic, Doncic, Giannis, Steph, Embiid, Kawhi, Gobert, Durant, etc., etc., etc. but so unkind consistently year after year after year to DeRozan? Do you honestly think it's all glitches, anomalies, and distortions that somehow punish DeRozan but reward all of the other stars and MVP candidates?

  11. #61
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    The website uses more adv shots across the board for a more refined approach to analyse clutch. And DDR is top 15. Your again looking at one category and not a broader spectrum. Again, confirmation bias.

    Here. I dumbed it down for you to understand it better:


  12. #62
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Your ignoring the formula taking all of them into consideration. This is why your list has Rozier or our beloved Patty Mills as some of the best clutch players.

  13. #63
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    I just don't get the DeRozan homers... Why would so many advanced stats be so kind to Duncan, Ginobili, Lebron, Jokic, Doncic, Giannis, Steph, Embiid, Kawhi, Gobert, Durant, etc., etc., etc. but so unkind consistently year after year after year to DeRozan? Do you honestly think it's all glitches, anomalies, and distortions that somehow punish DeRozan but reward all of the other stars and MVP candidates?
    Have a look at the players your mentioning here. No one is comparing DDR to them.

  14. #64
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Have a look at the players your mentioning here. No one is comparing DDR to them.
    My point is these stats have a strong correlation to quality, and they indicate year after year that DeRozan's quality is vastly overrated by people who only look at things like PPG.

  15. #65
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    Here. I dumbed it down for you to understand it better:

    that's old now and because we're dealing with relatively small sample sizes, the rankings and %s change a lot

    from what i see ... as of today ... demar is among the league leaders in the volume of clutch shots (and leader in clutch^2 shots ... ie potential game winners)

    and he shoots above the league average in all categories -- garbage time, normal time, clutch time and clutch^2 time

    so above average while taking a big volume of pressure shots

  16. #66
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    Here. I dumbed it down for you to understand it better:


    Damn, you the real timvp lol subscribed

  17. #67
    Veteran NASpurs's Avatar
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    My point is these stats have a strong correlation to quality, and they indicate year after year that DeRozan's quality is vastly overrated by people who only look at things like PPG.
    The guy is a 6’7” version of Monta Ellis. Cool stats while not a being winning player.

  18. #68
    Believe. Em-City's Avatar
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    I just linked a more accurate, more advance clutch shooting website. Or you can cherry pick where Rozier or Devonte Graham are the giants. Your choice
    Scary Terry has been a beast in the clutch though

  19. #69
    Believe.
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    - This forum is funny.

    - You are arguing about Murray, White and DeRozan when they are not the reason we are losing.

    - The bench production is causing most problems.

    - When you analyze most +/- games, both Mills and Gay have been in the negative.

    - We often lose games when Gay and Mills play close games or when they play over 22 minute per game.

    - Whenever Gay and Mills sore 9 points or less, their negatives become to big for us to win games.

    - White, Demar and Murray are +/- positives for most games, even when we lose.

    - If we reduce Mills minutes, let Gay walk, give Keldon "the Rudy Gay role from the bench" and Sign a quality 4, we will become top 5 seed without any doubt.

  20. #70
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    - This forum is funny.

    - You are arguing about Murray, White and DeRozan when they are not the reason we are losing.

    - The bench production is causing most problems.

    - When you analyze most +/- games, both Mills and Gay have been in the negative.

    - We often lose games when Gay and Mills play close games or when they play over 22 minute per game.

    - Whenever Gay and Mills sore 9 points or less, their negatives become to big for us to win games.

    - White, Demar and Murray are +/- positives for most games, even when we lose.

    - If we reduce Mills minutes, let Gay walk, give Keldon "the Rudy Gay role from the bench" and Sign a quality 4, we will become top 5 seed without any doubt.
    Literally all of the Spurs best lineups for the season include both Mills and Gay - with Net ratings of 29.3, 28.1, 27.9, 23.1 and 13.7. The best non Mills-Gay lineup has a Net rating of 7.1, which is the current starting lineup.

    They may not be great or consistent enough for the Spurs to be better, but they're certainly not the reason why the team lose games. And neither is the bench production as a whole.

  21. #71
    Believe. JuneJive's Avatar
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    Poeltl starting took away from the bench's dominance.

  22. #72
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    A lot of the team's issues stem from the 2/2-3 positions being overcrowded. How to ensure neither DDR or KJ ends up at the 4 in any lineup? I think KJ just needs to come off the bench in the Manu role. And I think if DDR walks, then this team will be pressed to get to 30 wins.

  23. #73
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Another stat that shows DeMar is one of the worst players in the clutch with minimum FGA > 1.7
    Both stats are very team dependent. It's no coincidence most players near the top of the list are on the most stacked teams. Dame seems to be the anomaly, but he's a known assassin.

    BTW even if he's the worst of that bunch (which he isnt), that's pretty good company. You have to be pretty damn good to be given the responsibility that the other players on those lists are given. Saying he's not Dame, Harden, or Embiid isnt really an insult. DeMar is still pretty damn good in his own right.

  24. #74
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    - This forum is funny.

    - You are arguing about Murray, White and DeRozan when they are not the reason we are losing.

    - The bench production is causing most problems.

    - When you analyze most +/- games, both Mills and Gay have been in the negative.

    - We often lose games when Gay and Mills play close games or when they play over 22 minute per game.

    - Whenever Gay and Mills sore 9 points or less, their negatives become to big for us to win games.

    - White, Demar and Murray are +/- positives for most games, even when we lose.

    - If we reduce Mills minutes, let Gay walk, give Keldon "the Rudy Gay role from the bench" and Sign a quality 4, we will become top 5 seed without any doubt.
    , just sit Patty, NOW, and play Vassel, and we’d improve markedly.

  25. #75
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    The guy is a 6’7” version of Monta Ellis. Cool stats while not a being winning player.
    GS fans eventually came to hate him. One of the best player memes, ever, was a picture of a smiling Monta Ellis, captioned ‘scored 40 points again, and we lost. That’s our Monta!’

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