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  1. #51
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    A melt down like this is going to suck the soul out of this team I think they are done for the year

  2. #52
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    Wait, Spurs fans actually think that the Rudy Gay pass was Pop's idea? That was an obvious decoy action -- so much so that Lonnie didn't even finish off the decoy run to the rim. Pop and Rudy arguing for the next five minutes should have made it obvious that the alleyoop wasn't plan A, B or C on that play

  3. #53
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    Wait, Spurs fans actually think that the Rudy Gay pass was Pop's idea? That was an obvious decoy action -- so much so that Lonnie didn't even finish off the decoy run to the rim. Pop and Rudy arguing for the next five minutes should have made it obvious that the alleyoop wasn't plan A, B or C on that play
    Iím not so sure, has to be on both the coach and player for this one.

    Last edited by PhantomDashCam; 05-01-2021 at 07:27 PM.

  4. #54
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    /derozan with 14 assists but he was too selfish iso

    in the 2nd half, derozan was playing 1 on 5 on offense and poeltl was playing 1 on 5 on defense

  5. #55
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Iím not so sure, has to be on both the coach and player for this one.

    I mean, look at Pop's reaction. He was so miffed at the pass that he was yelling at Rudy instead of telling the team to foul.

    That play has been run many time. Walker's cut to the rim is meant to draw in the weakside help defender. If that defender bites, Mills gets an open three. If not, Derozan is supposed to get the ball. No one has ever decided to throw it to the decoy cutter before Rudy last night.

  6. #56
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    lmao that pop head-snap at rudy as soon as he tried the oop

  7. #57
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    I mean, look at Pop's reaction. He was so miffed at the pass that he was yelling at Rudy instead of telling the team to foul.

    That play has been run many time. Walker's cut to the rim is meant to draw in the weakside help defender. If that defender bites, Mills gets an open three. If not, Derozan is supposed to get the ball. No one has ever decided to throw it to the decoy cutter before Rudy last night.
    You can read that Pop reaction multiple ways. It could even be disbelief that Rudy would even attempt that pass with Lonnie being so heavily covered on the lob attempt.

    When there is a communication break down, it’s usually on the sender and receiver.

    IMHO, even if Pop’s instruction were extremely clear and the play was a misdirection as you’re suggesting, choosing Gay - an iso-centric, pass as a last resort type of player to handle your team’s final inbound play is just asking for trouble.

  8. #58
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    Man, that's a lie, all the team was scared. They had the ball with 8 sec on the clock and gave the ball to the DDR. Maybe this team will a play another type of basketball without DDR but they will win less games by a big margin.

    Actually nobody could take his scoring, his passing and lead to team but it's better to be down on him...



    How you can say that ? we need to stop the blind hate on DDR, this team did not have the tools to play differentily and he is your best passer also. He's the one who is doing pretty everything on offense, i'm ok with the critics on D but without him how we'll play ?

    This team did not have a better player than him by far but getting rid of him will make us better...ok.
    U don't understand how basketball works...simply having the "best" player on a team doesn't make the team better with that player...there's several examples where teams got better after getting rid of their best player

  9. #59
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    ...

    That play has been run many time. Walker's cut to the rim is meant to draw in the weakside help defender. If that defender bites, Mills gets an open three. If not, Derozan is supposed to get the ball. No one has ever decided to throw it to the decoy cutter before Rudy last night.
    Wait a second. Popís play was intended to draw away Pattyís defender, who would try to stop Walker going to the rim...

    In a 2pt game. You say. The defender would guard against the 2, and leave an open 3. In a 2pt game. Pop thought.

    Confirmed: Pop thinks everybody else is as stupid as he is. If what you wrote is correct. Not that I doubt you.

    Pop messed up the whole thing twice. Recall, that infamous lob was the second attempt to inbound the ball on that possession. Popís first idea went haywire instantly. Time out.

    Pop then spent a loooong time blathering and scribbling. As the players left the huddle, to try again, they all had a look like, ďweíre screwed.Ē

    Popís second attempt seemed mainly designed to gift the Celticsí defense a lovely present on a silver platter. He gave them their easiest possible defensive assignments.

    Pop spread the Spurs out so that the Celtics didnít have to worry about screens and switching. They could all play simple man to man, straight up. Defenders love that, itís so easy, relatively. I hope the Celtics remember Pop at Xmas and send him a good bottle of wine and a thank you note, for being so nice to them. Popís always nice to everybody, except his own team, and his own fans.

  10. #60
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    Wait, Spurs fans actually think that the Rudy Gay pass was Pop's idea? That was an obvious decoy action -- so much so that Lonnie didn't even finish off the decoy run to the rim. Pop and Rudy arguing for the next five minutes should have made it obvious that the alleyoop wasn't plan A, B or C on that play
    that's why we call you SniffVP around here. Cause you actually believe what you said there

  11. #61
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    Dejounte. Sorry for the low-quality pic, best I can do. Perfectly sums up everything we've been talking about regarding DJ and his "shooter" status... This was hardly the only possession Tatum guarded him like this; I was actually looking for the specific instance I recalled, closer to the 1m mark, but this was also applicable.

    Any NBA capable 3pt shooter punishes the "lazy" defender by taking a dribble, then pulling up for an easy, relatively uncontested 3. Lonnie for example does this a lot. But you can guess how this possession went for DJ... Ignored the advantage, dribbled all the way into Tatum, was predictably bodied up, forced to pick up his dribble, and passed off (again) to DeRozan. Low IQ play by him, or rather, a very DeRozan-esque play by him. Talk about learning from the vets, lol... And if you look closely, he's defended like this a bunch by smart defenders, and very rarely punishes them by taking the 3, nevermind a side-step, stepback, or anyhting else. It'll forever impact his ability to stretch defenses and create his own shot without driving to the rim every single time.

    And to everyone else, no, DJ was far from the one to be blamed for this loss. This is just a nitpick on his current game, or lack thereof, regarding 3pt shooting.

  12. #62
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    that's why we call you SniffVP around here. Cause you actually believe what you said there
    Imagine having so many choices and deciding to hitch your wagon to the one thing that was legitimately not his fault

  13. #63
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    I mean, look at Pop's reaction. He was so miffed at the pass that he was yelling at Rudy instead of telling the team to foul.

    That play has been run many time. Walker's cut to the rim is meant to draw in the weakside help defender. If that defender bites, Mills gets an open three. If not, Derozan is supposed to get the ball. No one has ever decided to throw it to the decoy cutter before Rudy last night.

  14. #64
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Dejounte. Sorry for the low-quality pic, best I can do. Perfectly sums up everything we've been talking about regarding DJ and his "shooter" status... This was hardly the only possession Tatum guarded him like this; I was actually looking for the specific instance I recalled, closer to the 1m mark, but this was also applicable.

    Any NBA capable 3pt shooter punishes the "lazy" defender by taking a dribble, then pulling up for an easy, relatively uncontested 3. Lonnie for example does this a lot. But you can guess how this possession went for DJ... Ignored the advantage, dribbled all the way into Tatum, was predictably bodied up, forced to pick up his dribble, and passed off (again) to DeRozan. Low IQ play by him, or rather, a very DeRozan-esque play by him. Talk about learning from the vets, lol... And if you look closely, he's defended like this a bunch by smart defenders, and very rarely punishes them by taking the 3, nevermind a side-step, stepback, or anyhting else. It'll forever impact his ability to stretch defenses and create his own shot without driving to the rim every single time.

    And to everyone else, no, DJ was far from the one to be blamed for this loss. This is just a nitpick on his current game, or lack thereof, regarding 3pt shooting.
    Not every NBA player has good pull-up three ability. It's good if he's playing within himself.
    But in today's game guards do have to be good catch and shoot three shooters. This is why I'm no big fan of DD. And Murray is spotty in that regard.

  15. #65
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Not every NBA player has good pull-up three ability. It's good if he's playing within himself.
    But in today's game guards do have to be good catch and shoot three shooters. This is why I'm no big fan of DD. And Murray is spotty in that regard.
    Actually creating a 3 off the dribble is a skill Spurs desperately need. Lots of teams have role players than can pull this off. Spurs don't. Our best player that has that skill is too to pull it off. This is the reason why DDR isn't top tear. He hasn't got this in his game.

  16. #66
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    U don't understand how basketball works...simply having the "best" player on a team doesn't make the team better with that player...there's several examples where teams got better after getting rid of their best player

    Ok give me some examples of those teams ? and what material they had when their best player was traded or goes elsewhere.
    Last edited by duncan2150; 05-02-2021 at 10:30 AM.

  17. #67
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Good and fair grades based off player and coaching capability.

  18. #68
    Believe.
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    that's why we call you SniffVP around here. Cause you actually believe what you said there
    This isnít Blazing Saddles, cut the ďweĒ talk as if anyone else cares about your pet names.

  19. #69
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    Dejounte. Sorry for the low-quality pic, best I can do. Perfectly sums up everything we've been talking about regarding DJ and his "shooter" status... This was hardly the only possession Tatum guarded him like this; I was actually looking for the specific instance I recalled, closer to the 1m mark, but this was also applicable.

    Any NBA capable 3pt shooter punishes the "lazy" defender by taking a dribble, then pulling up for an easy, relatively uncontested 3. Lonnie for example does this a lot. But you can guess how this possession went for DJ... Ignored the advantage, dribbled all the way into Tatum, was predictably bodied up, forced to pick up his dribble, and passed off (again) to DeRozan. Low IQ play by him, or rather, a very DeRozan-esque play by him. Talk about learning from the vets, lol... And if you look closely, he's defended like this a bunch by smart defenders, and very rarely punishes them by taking the 3, nevermind a side-step, stepback, or anyhting else. It'll forever impact his ability to stretch defenses and create his own shot without driving to the rim every single time.

    And to everyone else, no, DJ was far from the one to be blamed for this loss. This is just a nitpick on his current game, or lack thereof, regarding 3pt shooting.

    There was a nice JJ Re podcast where he interviewed Duncan Robinson, and Robinson told a story about a play in practice early in his career where he pumped faked the defender to the side and then took a step inside the three point line and shot a 20' jumper. Spoelstra stopped practice and told Robinson, "don't step in, step to the side and shoot the three." It made me laugh-- a shot essentially forbidden by Spo was something the Spurs with LA and DDR used as a primary weapon.

  20. #70
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    This isn’t Blazing Saddles, cut the “we” talk as if anyone else cares about your pet names.
    God darnit, donaldsonian, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar .

  21. #71
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    This isn’t Blazing Saddles, cut the “we” talk as if anyone else cares about your pet names.
    SniffVP alt account?

  22. #72
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    The worst thing about this result is that it not only wasn't the least bit surprising, but the minute the inevitable run came and there was no response, it became expected.

    There was also a preview of next season, when DeRozan is gone, with Murray. The moment they actually started paying attention to him defensively by first putting Tatum on him, then having Pritchard pick him up full, he vanished. He can only get his low shot quality ppg when treated as an afterthought, which is why, along with being unable to generate high shot quality for himself or others, he's still a sub par offensive player.


    he gotta hit the weight room also. Donít get too big but he definitely needs a little more muscle.


    we have nobody on the roster that can guard Tatum and Brown. The closest guys in size are Demar and Rudy. Both of those guys canít truly guard them and I donít know if Luka or Bates Diop would be able to also.
    Even so, he'll more than likely never have the requisite strength to guard skilled big wings like Tatum (who's not even one of the more overpowering ones).

    Granted it's the scarcest position in the league, but they've now had going on 4 seasons since S bag quit on them to find someone who can at least adequately match up with these types without further destroying the spacing, yet they're still relying on physically overmatched guards. It's embarrassing and pathetic.

    I'm not suggesting Johnson necessarily fares markedly if any better against Tatum and realize he doesn't have great lateral quicks or technique, but he's the only one enough size and strength to potentially offer some resistance and until they find someone more suited, it has to be his role.

  23. #73
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Not every NBA player has good pull-up three ability. It's good if he's playing within himself.
    But in today's game guards do have to be good catch and shoot three shooters. This is why I'm no big fan of DD. And Murray is spotty in that regard.
    I'm not saying at any point that every NBA player must have a complete package of 3pt moves or whatever. In fact, it'd be troublesome if every player could do it; it's already annoying enough that every player chucks regular 3s like they're Steph. What I am saying is that Dejounte right now is not a threat beyond the arc as a ball-handler, because he has no shooting game besides catch-and-shoot 3's, which he doesn't even create for himself. If the Spurs want to project and build around him as a main ball-handler, creator, and NBA PG, he'll simply always be limited as long as he doesn't develop said game.

    That's why the image of Tatum guarding him is relevant; come playoff times, every single team is gonna dare him to pull up and shoot, and right now, he's not up to that challenge. Personally, I don't think he ever will, and I also think that ability (and confidence as a shooter) is something you're "born with", or rather, developed at a much younger age and then perfected, instead of growing out of thin air once you're already in the NBA. But it's just my view on him.

    Actually creating a 3 off the dribble is a skill Spurs desperately need. Lots of teams have role players than can pull this off. Spurs don't. Our best player that has that skill is too to pull it off. This is the reason why DDR isn't top tear. He hasn't got this in his game.
    Eeeexactly. Every single contender has one, if not multiple, star players who are able to create their own 3's in a variety of ways. I was arguing with Dejounte, who called this ability "strawberry on the cake", but in my eyes it's much more of a rule than an exception, if you look around the league. If neither of your starting guards can draw defenses out of the paint or stretch them, you're not gonna get far in the playoffs. I asked my guy, the same way I ask anyone, which NBA playoff defense is going over on a screen set for Dejounte? None, IMO, and as long as you want DJ as your starting PG, it's a problem, the same way it's been a problem for DeRozan his whole career, as you say.

  24. #74
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Sugus , I'm going to get to your posts at some point. It's just too much right now. I keep reading the same thing over and over though, and I simply don't agree that it "gets you far in the playoffs". The pace bogs down in the playoffs, and pull up 3s don't get utilized as much as you think they do. And look at the teams that do get far, and the number of teams that run an offense like that is even with the number of teams that don't. So again, I really don't get the reason why you're running away with this like it's factual.

  25. #75
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    There was a nice JJ Re podcast where he interviewed Duncan Robinson, and Robinson told a story about a play in practice early in his career where he pumped faked the defender to the side and then took a step inside the three point line and shot a 20' jumper. Spoelstra stopped practice and told Robinson, "don't step in, step to the side and shoot the three." It made me laugh-- a shot essentially forbidden by Spo was something the Spurs with LA and DDR used as a primary weapon.
    Yeah, that's another thing as well, and why I mentioned how it was a very "DeRozan-esque" play from Dejounte. Of course an old-head coach like Pop will instill those old-school habits on his young players, even if it's not explicit encouragement, by not discouraging it. In reality, Dejounte, when given free reign, often takes the worst possible shots, that any smart defense will gladly give him all day. Those 18ft pull-ups, while a valuable weapon in a diverse arsenal, cannot be your go-to moves, they're inefficient, unreliable, and simply not enough to get your team over the hump.

    And then you couple the bad shot selection and inability to create 3pts for himself, with Dejounte's clear score-first mentality.... Not the best of recipes. Every game I watch of him furthers my view that we gotta sell high on him. I'm not confident that White is the "PG of the future" or close to it, but he can run the offense better, score better, and be the better stopgap while we look for that #1 player, while creating more opportunities for the rest of his teammates. Dejounte-ball is similar to DeRozan-ball in too many ways for my liking, tbh.

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