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  1. #1
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    If you doubt it, imagine the what the US would call sanctions if the roles were reversed with Iran, Syria or Venezuela, .

    Placing entire populations under a modern form of siege is intended to cause massive harm to the civilian population. Strangling the people economically is not an unforeseen or unintended "side effect" of an economic war. It is what the siege is supposed to do. Sometimes this is done for the sake of imposing collective punishment on a nation, and sometimes it is an attempt to foment regime change from within, but it always represents an attack by our government on the people of other countries for things they cannot control or change. Broad sanctions strike at every aspect of life. At a recent event hosted by the Quincy Ins ute on the effects of sanctions, Prof. Asli Bali said, "The economic consequences of broad-based sanctions affect health infrastructure, water and sanitation, the possibility of sustaining education, and access to critical foods….Sanctions that we present as ‘starving Assad’ are actually a form of collective punishment that are starving a civilian population."


    Sanctions advocates will often portray broad sanctions as "low cost" and an "alternative to war," but the costs they impose are "low" only to the policymakers that inflict the punishment. The people on the receiving end rightly perceive these policies as an aggressive assault on them and their country. Sanctions advocates then add insult to injury by feigning concern for the people whom they have chosen to starve and impoverish.
    https://original.antiwar.com/Daniel_...tions-are-war/

  2. #2
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Economic warfare against ordinary people is unjust, and it treats tens of millions of people around the world as our enemies when they have done nothing and could do nothing to us. Sanctions are not an alternative to war. They inflict indiscriminate death and destruction on another country...

  3. #3
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Pity post.

  4. #4
    Scrumtrulescent
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    Does Larison suggest an alternative to sanctions? I’ll assume it’s not dropping bombs instead.

  5. #5
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Does Larison suggest an alternative to sanctions? I’ll assume it’s not dropping bombs instead.
    Diplomacy is an alternative, trade and cultural exchange are two others. Collective punishment OTOH tends to increase peoples' support of their own ty regimes.

  6. #6
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    In an ideal world, sure, it would be much simpler if everyone was willing to play nice with each other and diplomacy was the solution to every problem. Reality paints a much different picture. If economic sanctions are being considered, diplomacy has already failed.

  7. #7
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    America, in its infinite hubristic fantasy as God's preferred country, claims it spreads freedom and democracy, but what it really does with its CIA and military is spread everything but freedom and democracy, but actually is make the planet safe for predatory, extractive, raping American Capitalists.

    Undemocratic America is itself a Big Lie, a Big Liar

    Sanctions are an act of war, America as international terrorist, harming, killing non-combatants, innocents for political (financial) objectives.

    Where has America succeeded in spreading freedom and democracy?
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 05-05-2021 at 08:09 AM.

  8. #8
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    Does Larison suggest an alternative to sanctions? I’ll assume it’s not dropping bombs instead.
    Diplomacy. That used to be a thing back in the day.

    Now that doesnt exist. Its "do as we say or else..."

  9. #9
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    In an ideal world, sure, it would be much simpler if everyone was willing to play nice with each other and diplomacy was the solution to every problem. Reality paints a much different picture. If economic sanctions are being considered, diplomacy has already failed.
    One counterexample: the JPCOA was working, then the US reneged on the deal and reimposed sanctions.

    Now Iran's nuclear program is more or less off the chain and they're much closer to weapons grade processing than they were before.

  10. #10
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    coyotes_geek:It seems to me Larison's gripe isn't against sanctions per se, it's against using them to starve whole countries and deny them essential goods like medicine.

    Also, sanctions don't seem to work very well. Can you point out the last time a sanctions regime made a recalcitrant government do what the US wanted them to?

  11. #11
    Scrumtrulescent
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    Also, sanctions don't seem to work very well. Can you point out the last time a sanctions regime made a recalcitrant government do what the US wanted them to?
    Isn't the JCPOA an example of exactly this? Cheeto fvck going back on the deal notwithstanding, it was the economic sanctions that brought Iran to the table in the first place.

  12. #12
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Isn't the JCPOA an example of exactly this? Cheeto fvck going back on the deal notwithstanding, it was the economic sanctions that brought Iran to the table in the first place.
    That's a good point, but I'm not sure how it justifies collective punishment including starvation and death.

  13. #13
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    That's a good point, but I'm not sure how it justifies collective punishment including starvation and death.
    sanctions led to JCPOA, but under sanctions Iran never stopped fomenting terrorism and attacking Israel through Lebanon and Syria.

  14. #14
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    That's a good point, but I'm not sure how it justifies collective punishment including starvation and death.
    Sometimes, there simply aren't any good options to choose from. North Korea is another example.

  15. #15
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Sometimes, there simply aren't any good options to choose from. North Korea is another example.
    Hmm, punish people who did nothing to us to get their government to do what we want, because we ran out of ideas. Hope the table never gets reversed on this dynamic.

  16. #16
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    Hmm, punish people who did nothing to us to get their government to do what we want, because we ran out of ideas. Hope the table never gets reversed on this dynamic.
    Imperfect solutions for an imperfect world.

  17. #17
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Imperfect solutions for an imperfect world.
    Sometimes it's no solution at all and hurts completely innocent people to no good end.

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