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  1. #101
    Emperor Duncan>>>>>King James tim_duncan_fan's Avatar
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    They way he was speaking so highly off the team after a miserable season was telling. Was a great run. I suspect we are going to be very bad next year, let the rebuild begin.
    Being very bad has been due since 2016. It is time to pay up by grinning and bearing it for a bit before the re-ascension.

  2. #102
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Pop Sniffers are very on the defensive about any thoughts the retirement could have come like say 2015. Certainly after Zaza. Your die hard real hardkowre sniffers think the last 2 seasons were completely non Pop related.

    So certainly being the extremely fair folks they are, their expectation for the new coach's first season should be no more then Pops first season.
    Right?
    I'm still confused. Who cares what other people think and why does it need to inhabit the content of your posts?

  3. #103
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    It's far more important that they modernize themselves (shot profile, player promotion, etc.) immediately than cling to mythology.
    Spoken like someone who is spoiled to the nth degree and pays no attention to realities outside of San Antonio.

    1) A Spurs fan complaining about the Spurs' ability to develop players is laughably myopic. The Spurs have a track record as good or better than any team in the league. "Player promotion" is a part of player development. If the next coach has anywhere near the success of the last 20 years or so, she'd be doing an amazing job.

    2) It's not a coincidence that the "shot profile" suffered when the two players in the league who are the most addicted to mid-range jumpers and most resistant to change joined the team. The coaching staff has highlighted the need for threes but those two players refused to change. Virtually every other player beyond those two have trended the right way. In prior years, the Spurs had cutting edge shot profile. Spurs fans acting like the coaches would have Steph Curry shooting two-pointers

  4. #104
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Pop has adapted over the years, many times, but he’s balking at what needs to be done, because he hates it. SA needs to basically double their 3 point attempts. No matter how efficient your two point game is, it can’t compete with even a middle of the road 3 point offense.
    meh. he had the spurs leading the league in 3's before it was cool. but the top players on the roster are all allergic to 3 point shots so thats on the team building.

  5. #105
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    “Championship knowledge” draft Tim Duncan with the #1 pick



    Spoken like someone who is spoiled to the nth degree and pays no attention to realities outside of San Antonio.

    1) A Spurs fan complaining about the Spurs' ability to develop players is laughably myopic. The Spurs have a track record as good or better than any team in the league. "Player promotion" is a part of player development. If the next coach has anywhere near the success of the last 20 years or so, she'd be doing an amazing job.

    2) It's not a coincidence that the "shot profile" suffered when the two players in the league who are the most addicted to mid-range jumpers and most resistant to change joined the team. The coaching staff has highlighted the need for threes but those two players refused to change. Virtually every other player beyond those two have trended the right way. In prior years, the Spurs had cutting edge shot profile. Spurs fans acting like the coaches would have Steph Curry shooting two-pointers
    Why is wanting the best for your team spoiled? Only someone with a loser mentality rests on their laurels.

    I'm well versed in what's going on in the league and their recent ability is overrated, which is all that's relevant to this era. "Player promotion" is things like talking up your players when they're candidates for awards and sending extensive stat packages and gimmicky items to prominent national media members who have votes (before you laugh or scoff at this stuff, this actually goes on in the league.)

    Again, virtually everyone else has gotten plenty of limited - non shooters to adapt, including the Raptors with DeRozan towards the end. They've also gotten former Spurs to markedly increase their volume. "Highlighting" is not enough, you have to demand it by holding them accountable.

  6. #106
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    I'm well versed in what's going on in the league and their recent ability is overrated, which is all that's relevant to this era. "Player promotion" is things like talking up your players when they're candidates for awards and sending extensive stat packages and gimmicky items to prominent national media members who have votes (before you laugh or scoff at this stuff, this actually goes on in the league.)
    Oh. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and believed you were complaining about the young players not being promoted to a big enough role quickly enough. Didn't realize you were complaining about the quality of the highlight videos and gift bags the Spurs send to the media

  7. #107
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    Oh. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and believed you were complaining about the young players not being promoted to a big enough role quickly enough. Didn't realize you were complaining about the quality of the highlight videos and gift bags the Spurs send to the media
    There's been various recent examples of Spurs clearly not being pleased with the lack of spotlight (S bag, Aldridge when he wasn't selected an All-Star in '17, Green when he finally made all-defensive team, Murray at various points).

    In what's already a non glamour market, players understandably don't want their hard work reduced to the coach, "culture" and "system".

  8. #108
    絶対領域が大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    “Championship knowledge” draft Tim Duncan with the #1 pick
    Meh, Spurs got David Robinson with the #1 pick and Larry Brown, Jerry Tarkanian, John Lucas, and Bob Hill never delivered anything close to a le despite being gifted a first ballot Hall of Famer.

  9. #109
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Oh. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and believed you were complaining about the young players not being promoted to a big enough role quickly enough. Didn't realize you were complaining about the quality of the highlight videos and gift bags the Spurs send to the media
    They have a 90s-era mentality to tote bags. It’s shameful. Don’t get me started about our key rings...

  10. #110
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    Meh, Spurs got David Robinson with the #1 pick and Larry Brown, Jerry Tarkanian, John Lucas, and Bob Hill never delivered anything close to a le despite being gifted a first ballot Hall of Famer.
    Yeah, it takes real brains to run the best all around player in the league at the time into the ground and incessantly call 4-down. Who could have possibly done that or had a historic defense with two of the half dozen greatest defenders ever?

    Prime Robinson couldn't touch prime Duncan in the playoffs, nor did he have the caliber of player to compliment him the way Duncan did post prime Robinson from '97-'01 (when he was still a borderline superstar - clear star) and eventually prime Ginobili and Parker.

  11. #111
    絶対領域が大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Yeah, it takes real brains to run the best all around player in the league at the time into the ground and incessantly call 4-down. Who could have possibly done that or had a historic defense with two of the half dozen greatest defenders ever?

    Prime Robinson couldn't touch prime Duncan in the playoffs, nor did he have the caliber of player to compliment him the way Duncan did post prime Robinson from '97-'01 (when he was still a borderline superstar - clear star) and eventually prime Ginobili and Parker.
    Yeah David Robinson was right

  12. #112
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    “Championship knowledge” draft Tim Duncan with the #1 pick
    Yeah, but how did Orlando do with #1 pick Shaq (he won 4 after he GTFO).

  13. #113
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    Yeah David Robinson was right
    What? I gave you the reasons why he didn't win a championship until Duncan arrived. The point was, it wasn't coaching in either case because it never is.


    Yeah, but how did Orlando do with #1 pick Shaq (he won 4 after he GTFO).
    The Magic had 4 seasons and 3 playoffs with a 21-24 year old O'Neal and 22-25 year old Hardaway and made a Finals and a Conference Finals in that time. Something tells me had they had him through his prime and had Hardaway stayed healthy, they'd have done alright.


  14. #114
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    Meh, Spurs got David Robinson with the #1 pick and Larry Brown, Jerry Tarkanian, John Lucas, and Bob Hill never delivered anything close to a le despite being gifted a first ballot Hall of Famer.
    David Robinson also played in an era in which jamal Mcglore would have never been an all star, much less a contender for all star game mvp lol.

  15. #115
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Pop Sniffers are very on the defensive about any thoughts the retirement could have come like say 2015. Certainly after Zaza. Your die hard real hardkowre sniffers think the last 2 seasons were completely non Pop related.

    So certainly being the extremely fair folks they are, their expectation for the new coach's first season should be no more then Pops first season.
    Right?
    Uh, no. This team was fairly close to .500 and should be better with a retuned, DeRozan-less offense. What you’re suggesting would be abject failure. Pop had a record 280 player games missed that year. Hopefully, nothing like that on the horizon.

  16. #116
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    The Magic had 4 seasons and 3 playoffs with a 21-24 year old O'Neal and 22-25 year old Hardaway and made a Finals and a Conference Finals in that time. Something tells me had they had him through his prime and had Hardaway stayed healthy, they'd have done alright.

    Yes. That's kind of the point.

    They didn't have him -- they couldn't keep him.

  17. #117
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    Yes. That's kind of the point.

    They didn't have him -- they couldn't keep him.
    Yeah because he wanted to play star in L.A. (sound familiar?). If you're going to hang that on their head, then be sure to do the same with S bag on PATFO's.

    Or just admit that Pop got lucky with Duncan on multiple counts. It's not a knock on him, it's a commentary on the position.

  18. #118
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    2) It's not a coincidence that the "shot profile" suffered when the two players in the league who are the most addicted to mid-range jumpers and most resistant to change joined the team. The coaching staff has highlighted the need for threes but those two players refused to change. Virtually every other player beyond those two have trended the right way. In prior years, the Spurs had cutting edge shot profile. Spurs fans acting like the coaches would have Steph Curry shooting two-pointers
    The coaches have to give large minutes to a volume SG and another player who refuse to shoot threes.

    No.

  19. #119
    絶対領域が大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    The Magic had 4 seasons and 3 playoffs with a 21-24 year old O'Neal and 22-25 year old Hardaway and made a Finals and a Conference Finals in that time. Something tells me had they had him through his prime and had Hardaway stayed healthy, they'd have done alright.
    And they lost him. Are you going to tell me Bob Hill or even Larry Brown was keeping Duncan here when he could have gone and teamed up with a prime Grant Hill? (no one thought his ankle was derailing his career back then)

    Tim talks about his relationship with Pop all the time, how they were close from like the day after the Spurs won the draft lottery.

  20. #120
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    And they lost him. Are you going to tell me Bob Hill or even Larry Brown was keeping Duncan here when he could have gone and teamed up with a prime Grant Hill? (no one thought his ankle was derailing his career back then)

    Tim talks about his relationship with Pop all the time, how they were close from the day the Spurs won the draft lottery.
    This is the only fanbase that you have to convince a sizable portion of that the player(s) most responsible for their ample success deserve far and away the most credit for it.

    Again, they got lucky that Duncan wasn't concerned with building a "brand" in a big market, got along well with their core and that he was drafted into a situation where they could immediately contend for and win a championship before he was a free agent.

    Had they had O'Neal, they'd have lost him despite Pop's attempts to build a relationship beyond basketball (and it wouldn't have been his fault).

  21. #121
    Veteran illusioNtEk's Avatar
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    good.... time to end this stupid spurs culture and start acting like a busniess.

    feelings... look where LMA and DeMar took us.

  22. #122
    絶対領域が大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    This is the only fanbase that you have to convince a sizable portion of that the player(s) most responsible for their ample success deserve far and away the most credit for it.

    Again, they got lucky that Duncan wasn't concerned with building a "brand" in a big market, got along well with their core and that he was drafted into a situation where they could immediately contend for and win a championship before he was a free agent.

    Had they had O'Neal, they'd have lost him despite Pop's attempts to build a relationship beyond basketball (and it wouldn't have been his fault).
    LOL thinking all you have to do is roll the balls out and you win after drafting a transcendent player. How well did that work in Cleveland with LeBron?

  23. #123
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Number one picks in the lottery era to win a championship with the team that drafted him without leaving first: David Robinson, Tim Duncan and Kyrie Irving. And Irving is only on the list because LeBron came back. If LeBron didn't come back, Irving's Cavs would have never broke 35 wins, tbh. In the last 20 years, how many picks 2, 3 or 4 have won championships with the team that drafted him? Off the top of my head, there was Darko with the Pistons ... and that's about it. Wade won with the Heat as the fifth pick. Top five picks leading to championships in the last 20 years being Wade and Darko is a huge strike against the idea that tanking is the path to championships, if anyone cares to be honest.

    Spurs fans got spoiled by Duncan and Robinson and think that all you need is a top pick and championships will follow. That's not how it works in reality, tbh.

  24. #124
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    LOL thinking all you have to do is roll the balls out and you win after drafting a transcendent player. How well did that work in Cleveland with LeBron?
    Except I never said or inferred that. All I'm saying is, let's not act like he didn't get extremely lucky or that he did something that almost no one else could have done.


    Number one picks in the lottery era to win a championship with the team that drafted him without leaving first: David Robinson, Tim Duncan and Kyrie Irving. And Irving is only on the list because LeBron came back. If LeBron didn't come back, Irving's Cavs would have never broke 35 wins, tbh. In the last 20 years, how many picks 2, 3 or 4 have won championships with the team that drafted him? Off the top of my head, there was Darko with the Pistons ... and that's about it. Wade won with the Heat as the fifth pick. Top five picks leading to championships in the last 20 years being Wade and Darko is a huge strike against the idea that tanking is the path to championships, if anyone cares to be honest.

    Spurs fans got spoiled by Duncan and Robinson and think that all you need is a top pick and championships will follow. That's not how it works in reality, tbh.
    Except I've never actually heard anyone say that. You just made that up.

    All we're saying is that the higher you pick, the better the odds of lucking into a superstar, which provides you with at least a conceivable path to championship contention down the road.

    There are no guarantees. But I'd rather rely on that than being the team to pick the needle out of the haystack (Antetokounmpo, Jokic, etc.).

  25. #125
    絶対領域が大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Except I never said or inferred that. All I'm saying is, let's not act like he didn't get extremely lucky or that he did something that almost no one else could have done.




    Except I've never actually heard anyone say that. You just made that up.

    All we're saying is that the higher you pick, the better the odds of lucking into a superstar, which provides you with at least a conceivable path to championship contention down the road.

    There are no guarantees. But I'd rather rely on that than being the team to pick the needle out of the haystack (Antetokounmpo, Jokic, etc.).
    No one is saying the Spurs didn't get lucky as with their #1 picks. I'm saying getting that #1 pick isn't enough, which you can see from the lack of success the Spurs had after drafting David Robinson and the Cavs after drafting LeBron despite having transcendent stars who really wanted to be there. I don't have faith in Bob Hill or Jerry Tarkanian pulling the team together after that humiliating loss to Utah at home on NBC and basically running the table the rest of the 99 season. I don't have faith in Bob Hill or Jerry Tarkanian turning shrimp ass Tony Parker into a guy who could dump 26 on Jason Kidd in a critical road Finals game or making angry ass Stephen Jackson into an elite defender. As ridiculous as Tim was in 02-03 that wouldn't have been enough to win the le that year without Pop's work with Parker and Jackson. I have no faith in Bob Hill or Jerry Tarkanian being able to pull that 2013 team up after the most soul crushing loss in NBA history to be right there in position to win Game 7 and then having to start all over again, and actually win it the next year. Only thing I have ever seen like it was the 89 Pistons after having their 88 le stolen from them, and they were also guided by a legendary coach.

    Pop is one of the greatest things to ever happen to the franchise. Not nearly as great as landing Tim Duncan, but still critical to having five banners up in the rafters. Thank god he didn't get fired and replaced with Doc Rivers in 1999 like was heavily rumored at the time, you want to see where coaching makes a difference look how much Rivers has underachieved with stacked rosters.
    Last edited by baseline bum; 05-23-2021 at 05:56 PM.

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