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  1. #51
    timvp
    Guest
    You got to give Cuban props for caring. He's brought the Mavs a long way.

    He's still annoying and loves media attention. No one can deny that.

    The less I see of Cuban's switch-hitting mug, the better ... not that there's anything wrong with that batting preference.


    P.S.

    Shii--ii-iii-iit, I'd take one Jermaine O'Neal over two Jason Kidds.

  2. #52
    GrandeDavid
    Guest
    I have absolutely no criticism to share on Cuban because I could care as much about the Mavs as I could about the Raptors. I do think that with or without Nowitski the Spurs are a better team, in or out of the playoffs. Dallas should think about getting serious and tough about their inside game because last I checked the Spurs were 8-3 against the Mavs in their two playoff series in the "Dallas-emergence-from-the-league-sewer" era. I'd love to see San Antonio and Dallas' all time head-to-head record, both in playoffs and in regular season. I know that the Spurs are 2-0 in championship series and will be 3-0 this time next year.

  3. #53
    scott
    Guest
    Jim,

    If you go back and read my comment- I've always said Elton and Jermaine are about as close to equal as possible. I've also said several times that I had switched back and forth on which was better. I never said you were wrong for thinking Jermaine was the better choice of the two.

    I did, however, say you were wrong in comparing Elton Brand with Malik Rose.

  4. #54
    Ghost Writer
    Guest
    TwoHand, Cuban has taken the Mavs from a perennial lottery team to a talent-laden Western Conference Finals team in under five years.

    He's tried to win with stars regardless of their defensive prowess and has admitted that he needs the team to play more defense.

    Cuban may not land O'Neal or Kidd, but at least he is out there trying, unlike the other capped-out teams in the NBA.

    Stop hating on him like a jealous little biyatch. Not every team can be fortunate enough to win two lotteries in the same decade, pal.


  5. #55
    Jimcs50
    Guest
    Scott, I said they were the same in that they are overachievers, having to overcome their height with determination, just as Barkley and Rodman before them....there is nothing wrong with that, I love all those guys, but I just want some tall tower to replace a tall tower.

  6. #56
    TwoHandJam
    Guest
    Ghost, get off Cuban's jock already and realize that he's had more than enough time to address the team's defensive shortcomings. The nucleus of Nash, Finley and Dirk have been in place for a while and they should be enough to win a championship with provided they are surrounded by better interior defense.

    Raef and Bradley aren't going to cut it. Nellie's run n' gun schemes aren't going to cut it. Signing NVE, Popeye and lusting after Rashard is just plain stupid.

    Geez, even you could have done a better job. :moon

    Recognize.

  7. #57
    T Park Num 9
    Guest
    A slower and older 15 minute a game Alonzo Mourning isnt going to help them either.


    The Mavericks need defense. BAD.

    Raja Bell IMO didnt get enough playing time.

    Nash shouldve sat a little more and Van Exel and Bell who are better defenders shoulda played.

    Oh well,

    we kicked there ass, they sucked end of story.

  8. #58
    Spurminator
    Guest
    At the time, Cuban made a good trade to land Raef and NVE. Raef's numbers were bloated because he played in Denver, but I think most people expected him to be a semi-legitimate inside presence for the Mavs. I doubt anyone predicted that he would be a total bust. He was one of the league leaders in BPG with the Nugs.

    And the fact that they're hard up for Mourning shows that their priorities are once again on the defensive end this offseason, even if that's a risky move. The only bad move I can think of was signing Bradley to such a big contract, but only because they signed him for too much. Keeping him around wasn't necessarily a bad idea.

  9. #59
    TwoHandJam
    Guest
    Here's an interesting article talking about Cuban-Nelson. I highlighted a part I thought was relevant. I can tell you that if Cuban had signed Grant, they could have been a serious contender.

    link

    Cuban-Nelson tiff looks like real deal
    By Richie Whitt
    Star-Telegram Staff Writer

    DALLAS - Signed.

    Sealed.

    Strained?

    Though Mavericks owner Mark Cuban and coach Don Nelson finally agreed on a new contract, their personal relationship these days is becoming less and less agreeable. We're not talking Jimmy-Jerry just yet, but the two have passed chilly, rounded for separation and are gaining speed toward rift.

    It's the end result, of course, of a season-long cloud of insecurity that hung over Nelson, punctuated by last-minute haggling over money Monday night. The coach, remember, wanted an extension way back in September. Instead, it didn't get done until a franchise-record 60 wins in the regular season, until pushing the eventual champion San Antonio Spurs to six games in the Western Conference Finals, and until differences over deferred millions shoved negotiations smack against the deadline for his old deal to officially expire.

    "Things never got ugly," Cuban said in a Tuesday night e-mail. "There was some drama, but far, far less than other deals this size I have done. Nellie was great to deal with. His lawyers were not quite as great."

    For now, the smoke has cleared. Because Nelson will serve the dual roles of coach and general manager through the 2005-06 season.

    But where there's smoke, there's fire. Because although their team is heading due north toward elitesville, the Cuban-Nelson relationship is heading south.

    And how can it not be after the edgy environment Cuban cultivated?

    Nelson, the NBA's third-winningest coach and a future Hall of Famer, was reduced to a lame duck forced to coach on commission. He called the situation "uncomfortable" and admitted he put extra pressure on himself in the regular season.

    Cuban, meanwhile, defends his strategy via the bottom line. A little stress can be a positive motivator, he said. The Mavs won more games than any team in franchise history, and Nelson crept within two games of the NBA Finals, the closest he's been in his 25-year coaching career.

    Welcome to the philosophical fork in the road.

    Nelson thinks he succeeded despite his coaching uncertainty; Cuban thinks Nelson succeeded directly because of it.

    As far back as last summer the two begin to knock noggins. On the pursuit of free agents Rashard Lewis and Keon Clark. And last season on the acquisition of Brian Grant, whom Nelson thought would fortify his team for a playoff run, but Cuban thought would prematurely give the Mavs a roster of overpaid over-the-hillers. Even in the West finals, Nelson and Cuban dove into healthy debates on whether injured star Dirk Nowitzki should return to the court.

    As the year progressed, their conversations dwindled. Publicly, it was because Cuban had become so busy. But privately, it was because neither much cared to hear what the other had to say. While Nelson rolled his eyes about his owner trying to get involved in X's and O's and force-feeding his coaching staff reams of data from a University of Indiana statistician, Cuban grumbled that his coach rarely admitted mistakes and wouldn't break old habits on the floor or in his thinking.

    In other words, Cuban was trying to teach new tricks to a 63-year-old dog convinced he invented barking. What problems?

    Both men have big egos. Thankfully, they have bigger brains. They realize, unlike the divorced Cowboys duo, that a public personality dispute could run the Mavericks' train right off the tracks.

    Cuban knows he needs Nelson to take his team over the hump. And Nelson knows he needs the Mavericks, who are only an Alonzo Mourning puzzle piece from finally giving him his first trip to the NBA Finals.

    The relationship is in a delicate balance. Too little, or even too much, success and the lid could blow. As long as the Mavs continue to make steady, significant progress, the two will publicly keep the peace while privately keeping their distance.

    Nelson flew to his off-season home in Maui on Tuesday night and answered questions about any lingering ill will with a simple "I'm signed."

    Cuban characterized their relationship only by addressing the tone of the contentious process.

    "Negotiations can have their ups and downs," he said. "But when they are done, they are done."

    The deal is indeed done.

    But so, too, is the damage.

  10. #60
    TwoHandJam
    Guest
    At the time, Cuban made a good trade to land Raef and NVE. Raef's numbers were bloated because he played in Denver, but I think most people expected him to be a semi-legitimate inside presence for the Mavs. I doubt anyone predicted that he would be a total bust. He was one of the league leaders in BPG with the Nugs.
    Raef was never known to want to mix it up in the paint. He was a stupid signing IMO. A good shotblocker from the weak side but not an interior presence or a great rebounder. He likes to shoot the 3 for chrissakes, that's how much time he spends in the paint.

    I'll admit that the fact that the Mavs are starting to concentrate more on D is scary, the fact that it took them so long is just plain stupid.

  11. #61
    Walton Buys Off Me
    Guest
    I completely agree with TwoHandJamon this one.

    The way I see it, yes Mark Cuban is a passionate, dedicated owner that is trying to better his team and yes this is a business where personal relationships must take the back seat to the greater good of the team. However, by courting free agents with sign-and-trade scenarios each summer, not to mention the countless trade rumors that circulate around Dallas during the regular season, players will quickly realize that signing a long term deal with Mark Cuban doesn't mean that you won't be replaced in a heartbeat if someone catches your owner's eye the following summer.

    Furthermore, in giving Raef Lafrentz a gargantuan deal two years ago, Cuban basically put himself out of the running for years to come. That is not intelligent. That is not good business. The Spurs are in the position they're in today because they were 1. lucky by getting the first pick and 2. extremely intelligent and patient (two qualities Cuban does not possess) in building a compe ive team year-in, year-out.

    And lastly, if the Spurs were not the frontrunners in this year's free agent pool, I have a strong feeling we wouldn't be hearing from Mark Cuban in regards to Jason Kidd and Jermaine O'Neal. He's being compe ive, he recognizes his chances of winning a ring go from slim to none if we sign a max guy this summer and wants to do everything in his power to prevent the rich from getting richer.

    He'll lose and then make a big deal out of signing Mourning........like that will make a difference.

  12. #62
    Spurminator
    Guest
    Did the Mavs resign Raef? I thought he was still on the contract given to him by Denver. (EDIT: NM, they did last year)

    My main point is that they HAVE been focusing on defense, whether or not it has been successful. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but they traded Juwan for Raef for the sole purpose of upgrading defense. They've hung onto Bradley for defense. This year, they're looking at Mourning.

    Probably the biggest problem they have is that Nelly is not a good defensive coach. But if the players you have are not good defensive players, it's better to have a great offensive coach than a defensive coach. Not even the greatest defensive guru could make Dirk Nowitzki a good defender.

  13. #63
    Ghost Writer
    Guest
    Two Hand, you are impossible.

    Five years ago, the Mavericks were the laughingstock of the NBA.

    Today, they boast the most talent-laden contender and were eliminated by the eventual champions in the Western Conference Finals.

    Cuban has done this exclusively through trades and free agent signings, not the dumb luck of two ping-pong balls.

    You act like Cuban's been ignoring defense for 20 years or he's running the team like Donald Sterling.

    You are just jealous of an owner who takes an active role in spending money and doing whatever it takes to build a contender.

    You f'ing recognize.



  14. #64
    Marcus Bryant
    Guest
    Cuban's been a Godsend for that franchise though you do wonder what it says about Nellie's work there prior to Cuban taking over. That team played like crap.

    Anyways, yes, Cuban has had enough time to address the Mavs' primary deficiency.

    Leave it to GhostWhiner to have his mouth all over the flashy Cuban's nuts and be so critical of the Spurs who just won a le and can sign a great player outright. You have to love a true fan like him. Yeah.

  15. #65
    Bandit2981
    Guest
    if o'neal came, would he play center or would tim move to that spot? why does tim dislike playing center so much anyways?

  16. #66
    scott
    Guest

  17. #67
    junglespur
    Guest
    Pacers' Walsh trying to hold onto key players
    MICHAEL MAROT
    Associated Press

    INDIANAPOLIS - Donnie Walsh wants to keep the Indiana Pacers together.

    He plans to re-sign All-Stars Jermaine O'Neal and Brad Miller along with former All-Star Reggie Miller - the heart of the team. Then the Pacers president hopes to find a couple of other players to plug gaps.

    Sounds simple. Implementing it may not be as easy.

    Walsh confirmed Wednesday that O'Neal already has scheduled visits to San Antonio and Dallas. Brad Miller's agent said his client also was considering other teams.

    To Walsh, it's not time to panic. It's just part of the process.

    "I don't make too much of that," he said of O'Neal's schedule. "Players only go through unrestricted free agency a few times in their career so it makes sense to see what's out there."

    Walsh has already started making his pitches even though players cannot sign with another team until July 16.

    He said he contacted both players' agents Tuesday night after returning from a weeklong absence because of his granddaughter's death. Walsh also said he wanted to meet with the players personally - especially O'Neal, who has blossomed into an All-Star the last two seasons.

    At 25, O'Neal appears to be the cornerstone of the Pacers' future. He averaged 19.0 and 20.8 points the last two seasons and represented the United States on its national team.

    He has become the Pacers' primary inside threat, and his presence helped Brad Miller develop into a first-time All-Star last season.

    Together, the one-two punch of O'Neal and Brad Miller made the Pacers one of the Eastern Conference's top teams during the first half of last season. Although Indiana faded in the season's second half, Walsh doesn't want to take any chances on rebuilding without his best inside players.

    In making his case for O'Neal and Miller to stay, Walsh plans to stress that the Pacers could pay more to keep them under the NBA's salary cap rules. He also expects to emphasize the basketball tradition in Indiana and the fact that the Pacers have proven they can win.

    "Other people will try to sell the beach or the sunshine or that it's a great place to live," Walsh said. "But we think we have the whole package here."

    Miller, who grew up in northeast Indiana and played at Purdue, likes playing in his home state but still intends to evaluate his options.

    "We know the Pacers and what they have," agent Mark Bartlestein said. "We feel good about what our options are. We have a great feeling toward the Pacers. Brad really likes it there."

    The Pacers have another option now in second-round pick James Jones.

    Jones played small forward at Miami. But with a glut of forwards already on the roster, the Pacers hope Jones can make the switch to shooting guard.

    To make it in the NBA, Jones acknowledges he must improve his ball-handling skills and get stronger. But if the Pacers lose any key free agents, Jones could find himself staying at small forward.

    "Any transition is difficult, but I'll work at it," he said. "If they're confident in me, I'm sure I'll make whatever move they want me to make."

    Pacers guard Tim Hardaway also is a free agent, and his agent, Henry Thomas, said his client would love to play another year for the Pacers. Walsh did not say whether Hardaway fit into his plan.

    But Walsh would like a veteran guard who can help stabilize a young team. Walsh has said he would like a penetrator and a shooter, perhaps someone like Hardaway or Gary Payton.

    "Certainly, he's a guy you'd have to look at because he's a great player," Walsh said of Payton. "He's a guy we'll follow through the process."

    A phone message left Wednesday at the office of Arn Tellem, the agent for O'Neal and Reggie Miller, was not returned.

    But Walsh remains confident that all three free agents will return to the Pacers next season.

    "We'll try to get agreements through the free agency period but there will be other teams involved, so you never know how it's going to go," Walsh said. "But I feel good about our chances."
    [link=http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/6221399.htm newwindow]www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/6221399.htm[/link]

  18. #68
    Marcus Bryant
    Guest
    I think that JO'Neal would really like to come to SA. I think the hardest part for him would be to leave the Pacers high and dry. Maybe he's still pissed about how his teammates acted during the Boston series, but you have to think the young man will feel some responsibility for what happens to the franchise and some of the people there if he should bolt.

    The Spurs have to do a good job selling him on what he would have in SA, as well as be understanding about what he would face by leaving the Pacers. It's not an easy thing. He immediately becomes Public Enemy No. 1 in Indianapolis. That might not seem like much but for a young guy like him but it will be hard. He'll be labelled a traitor. Dude is just like everyone else. You don't want to hear said about you.

    So far the arguments I've seen why he will stay in Indianapolis from talking heads on TV are all based on the assumption that every player wants to be the man and that he has that organization in the palm of his hand. It's more an automatic assumption about what every player wants than an actual assessment of the situation. Perhaps he doesn't want that. Perhaps he actually wants to win. Maybe he hates Indiana winters. Who knows?

    I think the hardest thing for the Spurs will be to explain why it was cool for TD to stay but why JO should leave.

    The $$$ differential is not the difference maker the media seems to think it is...should JO say he has decided to be a Spur then I seriously doubt that the Pacers would not take a couple of picks back in order to sign and trade him.

  19. #69
    Marcus Bryant
    Guest
    Spurs also need to put on a killer presentation. Show him some love. Make sure he gets to talk with Ice, DRob, and TD as well as the rest of the team who's returning.

    Make sure they take care of his family, friends, and ladyfriend while they are in SA.

    The potential pairing of the 24 year old Mr. O'Neal with the 27 year old Mr. Duncan is unique. They can essentially dominate the league for the next 8 to 10 years.

  20. #70
    Jimcs50
    Guest
    Make sure they take care of his family, friends, and ladyfriend while they are in SA.

    Marcus, no worries....I will take care of the ladyfriend.

  21. #71
    Pooh
    Guest
    Then she'll be heading back to Indy high and dry....haha. Jermaine is and will always be a Pacer, deal with it and take Zoe and Kidd

  22. #72
    TwoHandJam
    Guest
    Two Hand, you are impossible.

    Five years ago, the Mavericks were the laughingstock of the NBA.

    Today, they boast the most talent-laden contender and were eliminated by the eventual champions in the Western Conference Finals.
    As I said twice before, the Mavs have improved but these are mostly regular season improvements. They are destined to never make it past the second round until they address their interior defense. The only reason they got past the Kings was because Webber went down. About the only teams they could beat in the postseason would be Utah, Portland and maybe the Suns.

    Cuban has done this exclusively through trades and free agent signings, not the dumb luck of two ping-pong balls.

    You act like Cuban's been ignoring defense for 20 years or he's running the team like Donald Sterling.
    No, not 20 years but too long IMO. He is wasting the prime years of the big 3.

    You are just jealous of an owner who takes an active role in spending money and doing whatever it takes to build a contender.
    <Reese Witherspoon accent> Yeah, ok, what-ever </Reese Witherspoon accent>

  23. #73
    Marcus Bryant
    Guest
    Yeah Ghost what Paul Allen has put together is a work of art.

  24. #74
    timvp
    Guest
    The Spurs have to do a good job selling him on what he would have in SA, as well as be understanding about what he would face by leaving the Pacers. It's not an easy thing. He immediately becomes Public Enemy No. 1 in Indianapolis. That might not seem like much but for a young guy like him but it will be hard. He'll be labelled a traitor. Dude is just like everyone else. You don't want to hear said about you.
    Indeed.

    The Spurs need to sell Jermaine on a dream. They need him to think that he's the missing to piece to a dynasty. They need to have Robinson there saying that he wants to pass the torch to him. They need the Iceman, Red McCombs, Santa Anna or whoever to come in and sell him on the city.

    The key will be getting him to commit to playing in SA while he's here because once he goes back to Indiana, it will be human nature to stay there. That's what he knows.

    Sell the dream.

  25. #75
    goliath
    Guest
    The Spurs video guy should put together a video package.

    Show Magic and Kareem playing then holding the trophy.

    Then Bird and Mchale.

    Then Jordan and Pippen

    Then Smuq and Kobe

    Then Tim and Dave.

    All superstar teammates. All 50 of the greatest ever. All champions.

    Try to reinforce that all great teams, all dynastys, have two superstars.

    Reinforce that he would be 1B to Tims 1A.

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