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  1. #1
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    Went to the "AGGIE STUDENT BONFIRE" last Night. It was a controversial issue to have the bonfire since the University did not sanction it. Inability to block the event was realized as late as Friday night/Saturday afternoon. Here are a few observations from the event:

    1) Kind of reminded me how kids are when they start fires or charcoal grills in the Boy Scouts. Lots of fuel, an initial burn-off which appears impressive, then a smolderning sooty mess.

    2) The STACK was impressive, but I believe there were some engineering faux-pas that did not allow ignition
    More like a SMOKE-STACK, at best.

    3) I think there was so much concern over the fire and the county "burn ban" that the CO-SCI's must have ensured the sprinkler system was effectively installed and functional in the T.U. Frat House perched atop the stack.

    4) There are plenty of logs left for next year's "smolder" and for plywood production for future Hurricanes in the area.

    Should be an interesting week here in Aggieland as we all recover from our increased carboxyhemoglobin levels. I believe it was in preparation for the "MAROON OUT" on Friday. I guess someone figured "TShirts aren't good enough, so let's go for the skin too!"

  2. #2
    Keith Jackson mookie2001's Avatar
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    if they would have had training camp at a train station this year, I'd give them a chance

  3. #3
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    I think the University should step up and continue tradition. The faculty and Corps are banned from attendance.

    People died building something they believed in...TRADITION.
    hundreds/thousands die daily for that same ethos.

    Let the tradition live on! Just my view as an observer behind enemy lines...

  4. #4
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    ppl died building something they belived in?
    that's not good rationale hussker

    i think they should let them build it because i'm sure they'll be more careful in the future
    lesson learned the hard way--it's just a ing fire after all
    No, they died maintaing a very vibrant tradition..Nothing weak about that. Many do it for democracy everyday, dude...

  5. #5
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    Just a fire? TRADITION goes further than logs/heat/oxygen...
    Maybe when you go to a university you will see that.
    Oh...by the way. the Palo Alto/St Philips/entire ACCD does not count...

    Hugs,
    Hussker

  6. #6
    Leonard Doody is my BITCH! Mr Dio's Avatar
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    I think the University should step up and continue tradition. The faculty and Corps are banned from attendance.

    People died building something they believed in...TRADITION.
    hundreds/thousands die daily for that same ethos.

    Let the tradition live on! Just my view as an observer behind enemy lines...

    Piss Poor example/comparision.
    I have friends/coworkers who have loved ones over there right now & a couple of my buds as well. They aren't partying all night to go out on patrol the next day.
    Horrible.

  7. #7
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    I feel for the kids who put it on.

    They did a great job but had an asshole county commissioner try and prevent the fire from burning by filing an injunction based on the burn ban on Friday afternoon late.

    The kids got an emergency meeting with the county commissioner's court, and thanks to some politicking by former Aggie yell leader and Texas gov. Rick Perry that got nipped in the bud.

    But to err on the side of caution, they didn't put as much fuel on the logs as they typically do (put about 1/3 of what they normally do), and after that fuel burned off the logs hadn't caught yet.

    Still a great effort, can't wait for the lawsuits to get settled so we can get this thing back where it belongs - on campus.

    The students have demonstrated three years running now that they can build a safe fire from start to finish.

    Unfortunately some poor university leadership and lawyers put us where we are with bonfire right now (i.e., an "unsanctioned" off campus event), one day we'll get it back.



    That said, BTHOtu.

  8. #8
    There is absolutely no way that the University can risk bringing that tradition back to campus.

    Absolutely no way.

    If they sanctioned the event, and something ever happened again -- there won't be sovereign immunity. The legal ramifications would be sufficiently large to destroy the university.

    The administration at that school isn't going to be so stupid as to risk the very existence of a high-quality ins ution of higher learning that serves a great number of the state's citizens just to affirm a part of that school's campus culture. They are adults. Apparently many Aggie former students, on the other hand, are arrested adolescents.

    There are no insurance companies willing to underwrite Bonfire. There are no engineering firms willing to oversee an officially sanctioned Bonfire. Perhaps some group of Ags out there is willing to risk hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in liability, and lengthy prison terms, in order to be in charge of the project to make sure almight mother ing TRADITION is upheld. But it hasn't happened yet.

    The way it used to be done was illegal anyway. The University was allowing students to use its proprty to practice engineering without a license. For years, authorities just looked the other way. They can't afford to do that now, no matter how much Aggies want to live in the past and evade the consequences of their actions.

    People died building something they believed in...TRADITION.
    That's horrible. There is nothing noble about what happened. Bright young people full of potential were killed because of recklessness, negligence, and stupidity.

    The traditions of the campus culture of a university are not worth dying for. A construction project is not worth dying for. There is absolutely no good reason for the stakes ever to get that high. Everybody failed to make it safe.

  9. #9
    The Last Good Sport samikeyp's Avatar
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    No, they died maintaing a very vibrant tradition..Nothing weak about that. Many do it for democracy everyday, dude...
    Dude...that was way off.

    Dying for democracy is one thing, dying for a campus tradition is another. What happened was tragic and I am sorry that the tradition is no longer school sanctioned but to compare that to what soldiers do defending our country is just classless and wrong.

  10. #10
    See you when it burns SWC Bonfire's Avatar
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    Went to the "AGGIE STUDENT BONFIRE" last Night. It was a controversial issue to have the bonfire since the University did not sanction it. Inability to block the event was realized as late as Friday night/Saturday afternoon. Here are a few observations from the event:

    1) Kind of reminded me how kids are when they start fires or charcoal grills in the Boy Scouts. Lots of fuel, an initial burn-off which appears impressive, then a smolderning sooty mess.

    2) The STACK was impressive, but I believe there were some engineering faux-pas that did not allow ignition
    More like a SMOKE-STACK, at best.

    3) I think there was so much concern over the fire and the county "burn ban" that the CO-SCI's must have ensured the sprinkler system was effectively installed and functional in the T.U. Frat House perched atop the stack.

    4) There are plenty of logs left for next year's "smolder" and for plywood production for future Hurricanes in the area.

    Should be an interesting week here in Aggieland as we all recover from our increased carboxyhemoglobin levels. I believe it was in preparation for the "MAROON OUT" on Friday. I guess someone figured "TShirts aren't good enough, so let's go for the skin too!"
    The stack also did not light well in 1995. It was due that year to a larger proportion of large logs in the stack and rainfall events that fall, and poor weather at the time of lighting.

    The stack used to be coated with Jet A fuel because it is a slow-burning longer chain molecule than gasoline or even diesel. They may have used diesel to light it this year, I don't know offhand.

    Probably of more significance is the new construction method. Stack is much tighter with longer logs going all the way to the ground. This creates less space for air within the stack, which is required for complete combustion. The smoke you experienced was probably due to insufficient oxygen.

    BTHOB

  11. #11
    The stack also did not light well in 1995. It was due that year to a larger proportion of large logs in the stack and rainfall events that fall, and poor weather at the time of lighting.
    Wasn't that 1993, rather than 1995? I seem to remember that particular slow-burning stack in the middle of a nasty November storm was the catalyst that started the poorly-conceived fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants design changes to make Stack fall more quickly.

    Centerpole cracked in 1994, and people blamed that on the unusually high rainfall. In retrospect, that should have set off alarm bells about how they were weakening the structure.

    Probably of more significance is the new construction method. Stack is much tighter with longer logs going all the way to the ground. This creates less space for air within the stack, which is required for complete combustion. The smoke you experienced was probably due to insufficient oxygen.
    That makes sense.

    It's better to err on the side of caution and have a less spectacular burn, rather than the alternative.

  12. #12
    See you when it burns SWC Bonfire's Avatar
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    Wasn't that 1993, rather than 1995? I seem to remember that particular slow-burning stack in the middle of a nasty November storm was the catalyst that started the poorly-conceived fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants design changes to make Stack fall more quickly.

    Centerpole cracked in 1994, and people blamed that on the unusually high rainfall. In retrospect, that should have set off alarm bells about how they were weakening the structure.
    Actually, both, as is it a common occurrence due to the short amount of time to go from green tree to burning log due to the schedule of the school year. Ideally, the logs would be harvested earlier.

    1994, it rained like 15+ inches in 8 hours. Stack site was a mess, and the saturated ground under stack could not support the weight of the structure above - it "creeped" into the soil and leaned enough to put the centerpole in a bind enough to break. It did not fall per se, but drooped over. They did extensive structural enhancements to the next stack, which didn't help it light any, either. They also worked in a large amount of lime into the soil where Bonfire was stacked in an effort to reduce the plasticity of the soil in the event of another large rainfall event.

  13. #13
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    Extra Stout, when you don't know about something, you should just shut the up.

    There are no insurance companies willing to underwrite Bonfire.
    There is already at least three insurance companies that have told the university powers that be that the minute those lawsuits are settled, they will be tendering an offer to insure a student run, student built Bonfire on campus.

    It's one of the goals of President Gates before he leaves A&M (to bring Bonfire back).

    There are no engineering firms willing to oversee an officially sanctioned Bonfire
    The off campus Bonfire that has been built the last THREE years running now has had an engineering firm heavily involved in its building, from designing the stack to overseeing its construction.

    And they have had someone on sight to make sure it's done right.

    The new design of student bonfire is safe - every single log in the stack is touching the ground, and they have 4 anchor poles interspersed throughout stack to ensure it stands longer and is more stable.

    And SWC is on the money about '94 - heavy rainfall compromised the ground beneath stack. happens sometimes.

    When you don't know, you shouldn't speak.

  14. #14
    Extra Stout, when you don't know about something, you should just shut the up.



    There is already at least three insurance companies that have told the university powers that be that the minute those lawsuits are settled, they will be tendering an offer to insure a student run, student built Bonfire on campus.

    It's one of the goals of President Gates before he leaves A&M (to bring Bonfire back).



    The off campus Bonfire that has been built the last THREE years running now has had an engineering firm heavily involved in its building, from designing the stack to overseeing its construction.

    And they have had someone on sight to make sure it's done right.

    The new design of student bonfire is safe - every single log in the stack is touching the ground, and they have 4 anchor poles interspersed throughout stack to ensure it stands longer and is more stable.

    And SWC is on the money about '94 - heavy rainfall compromised the ground beneath stack. happens sometimes.

    When you don't know, you shouldn't speak.
    Well, if they've got licensed engineers overseeing it and it's insured, and they've cut out the problems with alcohol, then I guess my only remaining beef would be the safety training and PPE for the student workers.

  15. #15
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    Well, if they've got licensed engineers overseeing it and it's insured, and they've cut out the problems with alcohol, then I guess my only remaining beef would be the safety training and PPE for the student workers.
    FYI

    http://www.studentbonfire.com/index.php?p=bonfire_facts

  16. #16
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    Great link hussker.

    Sorry about that earlier Stout, I lost a friend that night and this hits close to home.

  17. #17
    Sleeping With The Original Axis of Evil hussker's Avatar
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    Great link hussker.

    Sorry about that earlier Stout, I lost a friend that night and this hits close to home.
    Thanks AHF; many of my friends here have friends who were lost that morning as well.

    The pupose of my original post here was to jab a bit of fun at the Aggies, but not forget that this tradition is being undermined by those in the area here with an agenda. I suppose if I did not live here and see the divide, I would not get it either.

    By the way, just so most of you out there are not confused, the BONFIRE those kids perished in was not a bunch of half-hearted drunks deciding to just pile up a bunch of wood and light the flame. TRADITION is deeply rooted in most societies, whether they be cultural or academia driven. This was a CO-SCI project developed for much more than symbolism. This project was, and still is, a huge deal to the kids at the school.

    Traditions go back much further than our country and TAMU, and people die for those traditions daily...The supposed "slant" on the WAR was your myopia, not mine.

    Call it a piss poor example if you will. I used democracy as an example, not the end all of what people die for, due to what they believe in, on a daily basis.

    Definitely no knock on the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. I was there myself in three different conflicts over my 23 yrs of service and would never disrespect my brothers in arms.

    The TAMU BONFIRE is not, and has not been a drunkard's amusement, simply a well planned and established tradition.

  18. #18
    uups stups! Cant_Be_Faded's Avatar
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    if they would have had training camp at a train station this year, I'd give them a chance

    LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLO LLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLL OLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL LOL LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLO LLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLL OLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLO LLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLL OL LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLO LLOLLOLLOL


    gutless ags
    always resorting to practicing at train stations to enhance their country strength


    I find it funny how Austin has a Hex Rally and just gathers around on a street gets drunk and rallies, yet CS has to build a giant bonfire to make everyone feel like its an authentic small-town country gettogether

    Just go to the Republican Primaries as a group and call it a day

  19. #19
    Leonard Doody is my BITCH! Mr Dio's Avatar
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    Anyone catch the VY quote re: the CS crowd?

  20. #20
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    I find it funny how Austin has a Hex Rally and just gathers around on a street gets drunk and rallies, yet CS has to build a giant bonfire to make everyone feel like its an authentic small-town country gettogether
    Stand around on a street and gets drunk? They get together and light candles

    Damn, you're not even a good bandwagon sip fan

    Oh, and BTW, tu used to have a bonfire that was built by students (nothing on the order of Aggie Bonfire - it was basically a trash heap), but stopped doing it due to lack of student participation.

    Now they all gather up and light candles. Candles.

    And your bandwagon ass is trying to talk noise about Bonfire?

    Dude, leave the smack talk to Dio, at least he can bring a decent take. You need to go back to the JV.

  21. #21
    Texas A&M >> t.u. TexasAggie2005's Avatar
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    It's one of the goals of President Gates before he leaves A&M (to bring Bonfire back).
    Gates plays to the crowd. I'll believe he actually wants Bonfire back when I see it burning on campus and not a minute sooner.

    I'm with everyone who thinks comparing dying for Bonfire to dying in a war is ridiculous. Let's not compare soldiers dying for our country to people dying when Bonfire collapsed. There were a lot of avoidable factors that led to those deaths and they were in no way noble, or comparable to the deaths of soldiers fighting to protect freedom. More than anything, they're sad, because they died for no reason.

    BTHO t.u.

  22. #22
    uups stups! Cant_Be_Faded's Avatar
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    Stand around on a street and gets drunk? They get together and light candles

    Damn, you're not even a good bandwagon sip fan

    Oh, and BTW, tu used to have a bonfire that was built by students (nothing on the order of Aggie Bonfire - it was basically a trash heap), but stopped doing it due to lack of student participation.

    Now they all gather up and light candles. Candles.

    And your bandwagon ass is trying to talk noise about Bonfire?

    Dude, leave the smack talk to Dio, at least he can bring a decent take. You need to go back to the JV.
    I've never cared enough to go, but people I've talked to that have gone said they get wasted. But yeah, candles are lame, I agree.
    The whole point is both are dumb, but at least we do it urban-style, not rural-style.

  23. #23
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    Gates plays to the crowd. I'll believe he actually wants Bonfire back when I see it burning on campus and not a minute sooner.
    Gates doesn't play to the crowd. I think you've got him confused with Fran. I was on some leadership stuff right there at the end when Gates took over from Bowen, and heard him speak candidly "off the record" about Bonfire more than once.

    Gates will bring Bonfire back. Out of the public eye he thinks Bowen was pretty much a joke of a leader.

    He can't say anything right now due to the lawsuits going on, but it won't be long after they're settled that Gates will be stepping up to the podium announcing the return of Bonfire to campus.

  24. #24
    Texas A&M >> t.u. TexasAggie2005's Avatar
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    Gates doesn't play to the crowd. I think you've got him confused with Fran. I was on some leadership stuff right there at the end when Gates took over from Bowen, and heard him speak candidly "off the record" about Bonfire more than once.

    Gates will bring Bonfire back. Out of the public eye he thinks Bowen was pretty much a joke of a leader.

    He can't say anything right now due to the lawsuits going on, but it won't be long after they're settled that Gates will be stepping up to the podium announcing the return of Bonfire to campus.
    I just have serious doubts Gates actually wants Bonfire back. Things work out better for him if he acts like he's trying to get it back, but things just "don't work out". What's in it for him? He's not an Ag. I can't see any non-Ag school president actually wanting to deal with all the headaches Bonfire will bring. I'm sure he'll act like he wants it back, but I don't see him doing a lot of crying when it doesn't happen. He knows pretending like he's trying to bring it back will cause less of a fight.

    The more years that pass, the less people that care about it and the less that make a big deal about it. I think the University is hoping to put off bringing Bonfire back long enough that eventually it just turns into a memory of something that used to happen. A lot of people already think that way.

  25. #25
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    Things work out better for him if he acts like he's trying to get it back, but things just "don't work out". What's in it for him? He's not an Ag.
    What's in it for him?

    In part, his legacy as a president at A&M. Gates is a very smart man. Bowen's legacy at A&M is as the worst president in school history, in large part because he guttered Bonfire.

    That's on the simplistic side.

    On the political side, Bush 41 and Gov. Perry had a lot to do with Gates appointment (as well as certain Board of Regents members), and it was made clear to him that one of his tasks before he left was to bring back Bonfire.

    Gates was head of the CIA when 41 was in office, and there's a lot of politics and friendships there.

    So why would Gates want to bring it back?

    1. Politics
    2. Friendships
    3. He wouldn't be where he is if it weren't for #1 and #2, which are tied in part to the insistence he return Bonfire to campus
    4. Legacy at Texas A&M

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