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  1. #1
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    All the talk has been CJ for Simmons. How much better is CJ than DD, if at all? CJ is on a bad contract (3 years, 100mil left), DD could sign for something more favourable (2 years) for Philly in the event it doesn't work out. I think DD thrives as a clear 2nd/3rd option for the first time in his career. Vassell would be the perfect replacement for Green.

    Who says no?

  2. #2
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    All the talk has been CJ for Simmons. How much better is CJ than DD, if at all? CJ is on a bad contract (3 years, 100mil left), DD could sign for something more favourable (2 years) for Philly in the event it doesn't work out. I think DD thrives as a clear 2nd/3rd option for the first time in his career. Vassell would be the perfect replacement for Green.

    Who says no?
    DeRozan says no. The no go on his extension wasn’t money, it was years. He would NOT accept a two year deal, and I kinda doubt that’s changed.

  3. #3
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    I think Demar and Joel would make a good tandem, at least better than Simmons and Embiid. I would think Philly would like another three-point shooter though, sadly Demar won't be the one.

  4. #4
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    Can't do a sign and trade on a 2 year contract. Must be 3 or 4.

    Philly won't take this deal.

  5. #5
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    I thought DeRozan was a free agent?

    I guess sign and trade; but at the idea that Sixers would want to do that.

  6. #6
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    I thought DeRozan was a free agent?

    I guess sign and trade; but at the idea that Sixers would want to do that.
    I'm not sure about this. Most people believe Simmons' is a negative value contract. The guy who pointed out that S&T needs to be 3 years pretty much nullifies the deal regardless .

  7. #7
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    Can't do a sign and trade on a 2 year contract. Must be 3 or 4.

    Philly won't take this deal.
    Thanks mate. Yep, 3 years would kill the deal, not matter how toxic they view Simmons' contract.

  8. #8
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    I'm not sure about this. Most people believe Simmons' is a negative value contract. The guy who pointed out that S&T needs to be 3 years pretty much nullifies the deal regardless .
    I love Simmons if he's the right fit. He's like Marco Rubio. He can lead a team for three quarters; but be weary of the fourth quarter. He needs to be the final piece, not the piece. I think he would be a good fit for the Bucks, tbh.

  9. #9
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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  10. #10
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    I love Simmons if he's the right fit. He's like Marco Rubio. He can lead a team for three quarters; but be weary of the fourth quarter. He needs to be the final piece, not the piece. I think he would be a good fit for the Bucks, tbh.
    Marco Rubio definitely didn’t perform in the fourth quarter back in 2016. Heck, he barely showed up beyond the first quarter.

    In all seriousness, Simmons is an extreme version of Rubio. You can’t have Simmons as a last piece, you literally have to craft your entire team around him because of how awkward the fit is.

  11. #11
    Believe. PrimeMinister's Avatar
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    Literally everyone says no

    derozan says no, the spurs say no, philly says no.

    congratulations, OP, you did it.

  12. #12
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Vassell is incredibly affordable for the next few years-- why throw away that flexibility? I'd rather be patient with Vassell, KJ, and this year's #12 and see what evolves than go all in on a flawed & pricey player like Simmons.

  13. #13
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Simmons is going forward a head case and when clutch time comes will do stupid things like pass the ball on way wide open dunk. Fail to suggest this trade.

  14. #14
    The Great Eight Ocotillo's Avatar
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    Simmons stock is low right now but his contract is not. That is why I would pass on him. Even though he can be had cheaper than last season I would not roll the dice that he suddenly becomes as confident in his shooting as he would need to be. My thought is he is where he wants to be, big check coming in and doesn't feel the need to put the work in. Pass.

  15. #15
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    McCollum is 2 years younger than DeRozan and a significantly better 3-point shooter.

    I've speculated that it's possible the 76ers could prefer a Spurs package to a Trail Blazers one, but that's only if 1: They exhaust the Lillard, Beal, etc. situations first and 2: The Spurs include White and probably some sort of future 1st.

  16. #16
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    Man, Sixers would love to replace Simmons' lack of shooting with DeRozan's lack of shooting while going from elite to turnstile defensively.

  17. #17
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    McCollum is 2 years younger than DeRozan and a significantly better 3-point shooter.

    I've speculated that it's possible the 76ers could prefer a Spurs package to a Trail Blazers one, but that's only if 1: They exhaust the Lillard, Beal, etc. situations first and 2: The Spurs include White and probably some sort of future 1st.
    Yeah, I didn't include the White one, because that's a no brainer from Philly's view IMO. I know the Spurs need to take risks in terms of acquiring talent, but I probably wouldn't do that if I were the Spurs.

  18. #18
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    Man, Sixers would love to replace Simmons' lack of shooting with DeRozan's lack of shooting while going from elite to turnstile defensively.
    DeRozan's mid range shot has improved dramatically the past 2 seasons.

  19. #19
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    Man, Sixers would love to replace Simmons' lack of shooting with DeRozan's lack of shooting while going from elite to turnstile defensively.
    Simmons took 7.3% of his shots from midrange (10+ feet twos) and shot them horribly, well under 40%. He also stinks from the FT line to the point heís unplayable down stretch.

    Demar takes 46% (!) of his shots from there and shoots an efficient rate in the mid-to-high 40s. And is usually money from the line.

    Average distance of 4.3 feet versus 11.0. Simmons is very efficient from close to basket but Demar much better from outside of three feet.

    You literally cannot compare the floor spacing the two of them provide.

    (Point on defense is very true though).

  20. #20
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    [wrong thread]

  21. #21
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Just let DeRozan walk.

  22. #22
    Believe.
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    This would be worse having a lineup of Simmons Murray and keldon .. this would not work at all

  23. #23
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Simmons took 7.3% of his shots from midrange (10+ feet twos) and shot them horribly, well under 40%. He also stinks from the FT line to the point heís unplayable down stretch.

    Demar takes 46% (!) of his shots from there and shoots an efficient rate in the mid-to-high 40s. And is usually money from the line.

    Average distance of 4.3 feet versus 11.0. Simmons is very efficient from close to basket but Demar much better from outside of three feet.

    You literally cannot compare the floor spacing the two of them provide.

    (Point on defense is very true though).
    I've been reading up on how different sites classify & categorize shots for their stats and it's all very interesting. Apparently for its RAPTOR ratings, Fivethirtyeight.com separates shots in the restricted zone from shots in the rest of the paint, but also separates shots in the rest of the paint from what they classify as "mid range" shots taken outside the paint. I think this is a more sophisticated way to do it. I wouldn't call a 7' push shot or a 8' half hook or floater from in the paint the same type of shot attempt as a 19' jump shot. I first noticed this disparity in shot charts with regards to Jaden Springer, who on different sites had very different shot attempt break downs, and after watching literally every shot he took last season, it was clear that many of those were taken in the paint from inside of 8'-12'.... It shows how important the methods behind stats can be. It can be a thin line sometimes between being labeled a "DeRozan type" or a "Ginobili type," but obviously the long term difference might be huge.


    For guys like Simmons and DeRozan, there's a whole other dimension that goes beyond stats and is, I believe, almost entirely psychological. I think if their coaches told them they needed to average 1 3pt attempt per game, they'd have trouble meeting even that modest requirement. DeRozan in addition to not taking threes has a unusual percentage of shots with his toe on line, as if in addition to his fear of threes he also has the need to be as absolutely close to the line as possible when taking them...
    Last edited by R. DeMurre; 07-20-2021 at 01:09 PM.

  24. #24
    Remember kobyz's Avatar
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    You can't do s&t combine with other player

  25. #25
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    I've been reading up on how different sites classify & categorize shots for their stats and it's all very interesting. Apparently for its RAPTOR ratings, Fivethirtyeight.com separates shots in the restricted zone from shots in the rest of the paint, but also separates shots in the rest of the paint from what they classify as "mid range" shots taken outside the paint. I think this is a more sophisticated way to do it. I wouldn't call a 7' push shot or a 8' half hook or floater from in the paint the same type of shot attempt as a 19' jump shot. I first noticed this disparity in shot charts with regards to Jaden Springer, who on different sites had very different shot attempt break downs, and after watching literally every shot he took last season, it was clear that many of those were taken in the paint from inside of 8'-12'.... It shows how important the methods behind stats can be. It can be a thin line sometimes between being labeled a "DeRozan type" or a "Ginobili type," but obviously the long term difference might be huge.


    For guys like Simmons and DeRozan, there's a whole other dimension that goes beyond stats and is, I believe, almost entirely psychological. I think if their coaches told them they needed to average 1 3pt attempt per game, they'd have trouble meeting even that modest requirement. DeRozan in addition to not taking threes has a unusual percentage of shots with his toe on line, as if in addition to his fear of threes he also has the need to be as absolutely close to the line as possible when taking them...
    Yeah, data is as only good as data is. I found the average distance most interesting. Demar isnít a spacer but doesnít clog like Simmons does. Heck, everyone on roster besides Poeltl is a better spacer.

    Demar loves to toe the line. Itís as if heís scared of posting bad headline stats (3pt%) when being behind line helps a star that actually matters like eFG%.

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