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  1. #26
    Believe. PrimeMinister's Avatar
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    They’d be smart to move on from him rather than sink 2/$80m into a dry well. They only made the Finals because both LA teams were decimated by injuries.

    He’s looking very old these days. When he tries that Curly Neal Globetrotters circle dribble the ball comes loose, more often than not these days. Very sloppy handle.
    100%. I expect however Phoenix will want to go back to the well out of fear of regressing back to pre bubble Suns. This was their chance, the seas parted in the western conference in a once in a career opportunity for Chris Paul and he looked like he was allergic to handling the basketball in 4Q G6. There was a lot said about our old pal Enrique here over the years but if anything he called his own number too much in these moments.

  2. #27
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    thanks jake from state farm!

  3. #28
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    A smart ballhandler and decision maker will always have value, but it's really hard to overlook the fact that the three best "pure" point guards of the past 25 years-- Stockton, Nash, & CP3-- have all failed to win championships in something like a combined 60 seasons. The most successful PG of the past decade has been Curry, but because he's the league's best shooter, not the best facilitator, and the other guys who've had success as de facto type Points-- LeBron, Jokic, Giannis-- all have size on their side, and best young PG in the league is 6'7" Luka Doncic. I don't think it's impossible to win a chip with a pure traditional 6'1"-6'3" PG, but it's a heck of a lot more difficult than doing so with a #1 guy who's a physical freak like LeBron, Giannis, Kawhi, etc..
    Last edited by R. DeMurre; 07-21-2021 at 01:07 PM.

  4. #29
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    Man, that s gotta sting. Going up 2-0 in the Finals with a shot at the first championship of a 16-year career, only to be backdoor swept. So close yet still so far.

    Phoenix played their hearts out this year but definitely overachieved and got some luck along the way. Rest of the West will be back healthy next year (well, not Nephew) so can't say I see them making it back to the Finals.

    Would not at all be surprised to see Chris Paul opt out so he can go to the Lakers and try to ride LeBron and AD's coattails to a ring.
    He'd leave like 80-100mil on the table to do that tbh , the players association would have his head.

  5. #30
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    A smart ballhandler and decision maker will always have value, but it's really hard to overlook the fact that the three best "pure" point guards of the past 25 years-- Stockton, Nash, & CP3-- have all failed to win championships in something like a combined 60 seasons. The most successful PG of the past decade has been Curry, but because he's the league's best shooter, not the best facilitator, and the other guys who've had success as de facto type Points-- LeBron, Jokic, Giannis-- all have size on their side, and best young PG in the league is 6'7" Luka Doncic. I don't think it's impossible to win a chip with a pure traditional 6'1"-6'3" PG, but it's a heck of a lot more difficult than doing so with a #1 guy who's a physical freak like LeBron, Giannis Kawhi, etc..
    Very solid take. Not sure I even want a so called pure PG/superstar after seeing how they repeatedly fall short.

  6. #31
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    A smart ballhandler and decision maker will always have value, but it's really hard to overlook the fact that the three best "pure" point guards of the past 25 years-- Stockton, Nash, & CP3-- have all failed to win championships in something like a combined 60 seasons. The most successful PG of the past decade has been Curry, but because he's the league's best shooter, not the best facilitator, and the other guys who've had success as de facto type Points-- LeBron, Jokic, Giannis-- all have size on their side, and best young PG in the league is 6'7" Luka Doncic. I don't think it's impossible to win a chip with a pure traditional 6'1"-6'3" PG, but it's a heck of a lot more difficult than doing so with a #1 guy who's a physical freak like LeBron, Giannis Kawhi, etc..
    I'd consider Kidd a pure point guard too, but he only got one ring and was dragged there by Dirk's epic performance.

    Either way, your point stands. Meanwhile, Parker dribble-dribble-dribbled his way to 4 les (which goes to show a scoring guard may be just as valuable as a "pure" point)

  7. #32
    Believe.
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    A smart ballhandler and decision maker will always have value, but it's really hard to overlook the fact that the three best "pure" point guards of the past 25 years-- Stockton, Nash, & CP3-- have all failed to win championships in something like a combined 60 seasons. The most successful PG of the past decade has been Curry, but because he's the league's best shooter, not the best facilitator, and the other guys who've had success as de facto type Points-- LeBron, Jokic, Giannis-- all have size on their side, and best young PG in the league is 6'7" Luka Doncic. I don't think it's impossible to win a chip with a pure traditional 6'1"-6'3" PG, but it's a heck of a lot more difficult than doing so with a #1 guy who's a physical freak like LeBron, Giannis Kawhi, etc..
    Most pg finals MVP are not facilitator. Parker, billups, Isiah Thomas. Most finals MVP are not guard. In fact curry never won finals mvp

  8. #33
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    CP3 did ball out at times in finals. Would have a ring with slightly better supporting cast. I mean, they were trotting out Frank Kaminsky and Cam Payne in an elimination game in finals. Booker was pretty bad and plays zero defense.
    he is the supporting cast

  9. #34
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    Eh, Booker definitely has moments. Dude needs to stop constantly ing at the refs, especially when he is already getting ridiculous superstar treatment.

    He gets heated and his complaining and arguing takes his head out of the game, which cost the Suns a game or two in this series and possibly the entire Finals.
    I agree with you on Booker but I would say he's not on the same level of being annoying as other top stars in the league.

  10. #35
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    It for sure cost them Game 4. Even with CP0's disappearing act Phoenix was still in control through three quarters because of Booker. Then he made a drive early in the fourth, lost the ball off Tucker's foot, refs called Milwaukee ball, and Booker got furious and completely lost his focus. Moronic fifth foul, sulking and kicking on the bench, comes back in and tackles Holiday for a sixth uncalled foul, commits another re ed foul on Middleton, and doesn't do offensively in the fourth other that hit one shot that mattered and then one to pad his stats with the game over. Couldn't believe how easily he took himself out of that game when he was having an all-time Finals performance until then.
    Yeah, that was really weird. Quasi delusional on his part.

  11. #36
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    I was never a fan of CP, even though he was a Wake Forest guy and a huge Timmy fan. I do feel sorry for him though. That's tough to be 2 games away from your life's dream and see it slip away like that.

    For a team that hadn't been in the playoffs in 10 years, Phoenix overachieved. They made the Finals in their first playoff run for many of these guys, so you can't take that away from them. They have nothing to hand their heads about.

  12. #37
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    I knew the idiots would come out of the woodwork pining this on him, but what did you want him to do about the fact that the Bucks had by far the best player, more star power in general and such an overt size/strength advantage that it manifested itself in a myriad of ways?

    Not that he was great or it was unwinnable, but he was good. He's also 6'0'', 36, playing through torn hand ligaments. Still one of the two best small guards ever (Curry).

  13. #38
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Still one of the two best small guards ever (Curry).
    LOL no, Isiah would have never gotten scared of Jrue Holiday and stopped running the offense for an entire quarter like 0 did in the third quarter of Game 5.

  14. #39
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    LOL no, Isiah would have never gotten scared of Jrue Holiday and stopped running the offense for an entire quarter like 0 did in the third quarter of Game 5.
    Look at their catch all metrics. Thomas wasn't in the same league as Paul and despite his ability to raise his game in the playoffs, those Pistons were far more an ensemble cast than a carry job.

    They swap places, Paul has at least 2 championships, Thomas doesn't sniff one.

  15. #40
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I knew the idiots would come out of the woodwork pining this on him, but what did you want him to do about the fact that the Bucks had by far the best player, more star power in general and such an overt size/strength advantage that it manifested itself in a myriad of ways?

    Not that he was great or it was unwinnable, but he was good. He's also 6'0'', 36, playing through torn hand ligaments. Still one of the two best small guards ever (Curry).
    I thought the Suns were terrible without him. When he was out of the game the passing was minimal, Booker hero balled and the other guys had to create their own shots. Luckily they are a talented team with multiple first round picks but they were pretty discombobulated when Booker ran the offense bc he hero balls a whole ton. He can make tough shots and that's fine but you can't win a whole game on tough shots.

    If anything CP problem was that he deferred too much at times as the ball went to Booker who TO or took horrible shots. He's 36 and can't carry a team anymore (that's also a criticism for his career since he likes to pass first, but this Suns team was really talented and benefitted from his passing a lot, that's when they were at their best.)

    Overpaying him for like a 3 year contract (I heard Cris Mannix, Senior writer for SI mention 100 mill for 3 years, which I think exorbitant) will be crazy though. He might maintain positive production sort of like a Manu Ginobili. Guys who can shoot and set up other players still have value even old, but he should play less minutes and be relied on for bursts, much like Manu was. Anyway, my two cents. I am not a huge CP3 fan, I disliked all his whining and flopping in the past, and do think he has been fairly dirty. A play where he pushed Giannis on an alley oop that he had no chance of stopping stands out in my mind as to why I feel no sadness whatsoever or care if he should retire ringless.

  16. #41
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Look at their catch all metrics. Thomas wasn't in the same league as Paul and despite his ability to raise his game in the playoffs, those Pistons were far more an ensemble cast than a carry job.

    They swap places, Paul has at least 2 championships, Thomas doesn't sniff one.
    LOL blowing a 2-0 lead four times is impressive.

  17. #42
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    I thought the Suns were terrible without him. When he was out of the game the passing was minimal, Booker hero balled and the other guys had to create their own shots. Luckily they are a talented team with multiple first round picks but they were pretty discombobulated when Booker ran the offense bc he hero balls a whole ton. He can make tough shots and that's fine but you can't win a whole game on tough shots.

    If anything CP problem was that he deferred too much at times as the ball went to Booker who TO or took horrible shots. He's 36 and can't carry a team anymore (that's also a criticism for his career since he likes to pass first, but this Suns team was really talented and benefitted from his passing a lot, that's when they were at their best.)

    Overpaying him for like a 3 year contract (I heard Cris Mannix, Senior writer for SI mention 100 mill for 3 years, which I think exorbitant) will be crazy though. He might maintain positive production sort of like a Manu Ginobili. Guys who can shoot and set up other players still have value, but he should play less minutes and be relied on for bursts, much like Manu was. Anyway, my two cents. I am not a huge CP3 fan, I disliked all his whining and flopping in the past, and do think he has been fairly dirty. A play where he pushed Giannis on an alley oop that he had no chance of stopping stands out in my mind as to why I feel no sadness whatsoever or care if he should retire ringless.
    I don't disagree (though again, at 36, being hounded full court by a much bigger, stronger defender, he probably felt he had to pace himself some), but let's face it, had he forced the issue vs Holiday, the narrative would have been he's "hero balling" and "trying to steal Finals MVP from Booker". He cedes more of the offense to him, the narrative is he was "scared" and "choked".

    He's definitely done some dirty things, but the play in question wasn't one. It's easy to think that way in slow motion replay, but in real time that happens so fast, he turns, his instinct is to raise his arms to attempt to prevent it, so it gives the appearance of a shove. It was more like a nudge.


    LOL blowing a 2-0 lead four times is impressive.
    Moving the goal posts and spouting results without context.

  18. #43
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    The dude is 36 years old and he was the best player on the Suns yesterday. Losing in the finals is not on him. Suns were lucky to get to the Finals this year and while they are a good team and certainly better than the Spurs, if they are counting on a 36 year old point guard to win them a le, well, that is unrealistic.

  19. #44
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    i'm not pinning the loss on paul; i'm just reveling in the fact that he still has no rings, nor does that phoenix suns fan base.

  20. #45
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    For me, though like I said, I am not a huge fan or anything, CP was fine for his age.

    I really dislike Booker though. He’s a true empty calories player. It’s not even the porous defense, he’s tried on that end more than some other stars I have seen, enough that I am not annoyed. It’s actually his brand of hero balling. He’s certainly talented and can make very tough shots, but he attempts so many of them and a few of them on top defenders. He doesn’t ask for a screen or get others to help him get to his better matchups and spots… He doesn’t mix it up enough with a fake, or a pass, (even faking a pass)… just not creative enough offensively with things he will do. It seemed he drove fishing for fouls on the wrong people at time… maybe it was that the Bucks were already on his mind. I don’t watch him regularly. I don’t know why but I hate him a fair bit, like more than I should care.

    CP losing doesn’t make me feel good or anything, but I am really glad that Booker didn’t win for some reason.

  21. #46
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I like Booker. I don't know a lot about him. I don't really watch the Suns a lot. But that story of him and his biggest fan, the girl with a down syndrome, seems like he's a very nice guy.

    I don't know about Booker rewarding that Suns fan involved in the altercation, but still. I wouldn't mind if he won.

    BUT CP0, I don't like any more of the Banana Boats winning, especially when they start putting up there as one of GOAT PG. Geez, one ring and already a GOAT pg?... waaaay pass our very own Tony Parker? Never!

  22. #47
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    CP0 almost ran the gambit: 1. Became president of the PA so 2. He pushed through changes in the CBA that allowed for his most recent massive contract then 3. Opted out of his contract with the Clips, then orchestrated the trade to Houston and said, "Oh, I really didn't opt out." and 4. came within 2 games of catching lightening in a bottle to get both the money and a ring. He has been manipulating the NBA to his benefit for years. He is a man with a plan.

  23. #48
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    I like Booker. I don't know a lot about him. I don't really watch the Suns a lot. But that story of him and his biggest fan, the girl with a down syndrome, seems like he's a very nice guy.

    I don't know about Booker rewarding that Suns fan involved in the altercation, but still. I wouldn't mind if he won.

    BUT CP0, I don't like any more of the Banana Boats winning, especially when they start putting up there as one of GOAT PG. Geez, one ring and already a GOAT pg?... waaaay pass our very own Tony Parker? Never!
    bingo.

  24. #49
    Defense Wins Championships Texas_Ranger's Avatar
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    instead of demanding 40M per year, he should just join someone on the minimum if he want to win a ring... But even if he does join a superteam, i dont think this loser can do it.

  25. #50
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    CP0 almost ran the gambit: 1. Became president of the PA so 2. He pushed through changes in the CBA that allowed for his most recent massive contract then 3. Opted out of his contract with the Clips, then orchestrated the trade to Houston and said, "Oh, I really didn't opt out." and 4. came within 2 games of catching lightening in a bottle to get both the money and a ring. He has been manipulating the NBA to his benefit for years. He is a man with a plan.
    Chris is a good politician. He knows how to manipulate people and the rules to his advantage.

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