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  1. #351
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    To me, after some reflection about his potential value as a 12th pick, it doesn't seem that this draft was about him as much as about moving some other players now on the roster as guards. Spurs can't keep stocking up on guards. Somebody has to go in a trade--and soon if they are going to improve the team at all for next season.

    You'd have to think Keldon isn't going anywhere since he made the Olympic squad ahead of any other Spur. There are good points and bad points about all the others---Walker, White, Devin, Murray, Jones--who might be considered as playable as starters/6th man next year, but not superstar material for the future. I can see at least one of them being traded as part of a deal that might bring someone to shore up the front line. Frankly, making one of them expendable now looks more and more like the way to go if a deal can be made and/or is in the works.

    Picking up this untried and mostly unheralded young guard is definitely a sign that one or more are on the way out. Take your pick. My guess is that Walker and Murray are on the bubble. White and Devin can probably take their places without much trouble or loss in play alongside Kendall in the rotation.

    I'd like to think that a 12th pick in the lottery could make the traveling squad instead of learning the game in Austin, but no one knows if anyone this young and untried can make that leap. Is he really that skilled? I doubt it, but that's just from watching the Spurs operate over the years with young players.

    Folks keep talking about Collins and I'm OK with that and wouldn't care if one of those guys had to go to make a deal for him or someone of that caliber.

  2. #352
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Dude is wayyyy out of touch if he actually believes this:



    Other ways to add to the team? You never trade, suck in free agency so literally the draft IS the only way you’ve added to the team. What are you on about?

  3. #353
    Believe. Kurik's Avatar
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    His answer to everything is adding long term talent. I guess he feels OKC and the Rockets aren’t adding long term talent the right way.

  4. #354
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    It’s just so interesting how Spurs can somehow never find a deal that makes them better for their future or now. It’s always, we just like what we have.

    Now, we can take that on face value. Or we can look around the league and see SA is a massive outlier with regards to trade frequency and question do they really lack vision/courage/plan?

    But these obvious bs answers make no sense and make it worse. You can’t say you want to win and make no changes to your roster after missing the playoffs like they did last year. You can say youth has a long run way then block them with vets and crowd the positions so no one has real space to develop.

    You can’t say there are other ways to add to the team besides the draft and not have done anything meaningful via trade or asset management and been a disaster in free agency.

    None of it makes sense when held up to the slightest bit of scrutiny and as the results have deteriorated the actions have not changed at all. It’s bad.

    Again, they at least are forced to face somewhat of a reality (until they sign DDR again) and they have flexibility but this FO has fallen off so hard and they need to prove they have something of value to add to this team.

  5. #355
    Believe.
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    His answer to everything is adding long term talent. I guess he feels OKC and the Rockets aren’t adding long term talent the right way.
    Warriors are a win now team and even they have better long term talent than us. And they won three les more recently than our last le. Rockets were the joke of our division after losing Harden and they've already pivoted to a rebuild with better youth prospects than SA in less than a season. SA is in a never ending holding pattern of mediocrity.

  6. #356
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Just say that he wasn’t the best pick there lol. You’ve been defending the Spurs a little too much to be honest. Very different approach in your posts.
    The you want? It's true that what teams are seeing and evaluating is different than the jackholes here, including me, and certainly more than the heads at The Ringer. That doesn't mean this wasn't a bad pick or whatever, it means exactly what it means. Everyone here was jacking off about Kai Jones but he dropped because jacking off over him was ridiculous.

  7. #357
    Believe. RVSTX's Avatar
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    Ok, so if they fell in love with this kids long term potential, how do you think the players feel. they probably thought they were gonna get some help in the frontcourt, not another guard. like someone mentioned earlier, the morale might dip a little, theres just no room for all the guards. even if you stash him in austin, if hes as good as they think he is, he wont be there long. they either realized that the team as is isnt very good so why keep adding to it. derek might be the odd man out, he wil be 30 in 3 years when this kid turns 22...

  8. #358
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    So what seems better on paper:

    Dallas: Luka
    MEM: Ja + JJJ + Ziaire
    NO: Zion/Ingram (maybe Lonzo)
    HOU: Green/Wood/Sengun/Garuba
    SA: Murray/White/Keldon/Vassell/Lonnie/Primo

    If you were starting a team, how would you rank the cores to build off of?

  9. #359
    Believe. Kurik's Avatar
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    So what seems better on paper:

    Dallas: Luka
    MEM: Ja + JJJ
    NO: Zion
    HOU: Green/Wood/Sengun/Garuba
    SA: Murray/White/Keldon/Vassell/Lonnie/Primo

    If you were starting a team, how would you rank the cores to build off of?
    That makes me cry. The Rockets are in a good position and I’m sure they’ll trade Wood and get value when they need to.

  10. #360
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    So what seems better on paper:

    Dallas: Luka
    MEM: Ja + JJJ + Ziaire
    NO: Zion/Ingram (maybe Lonzo)
    HOU: Green/Wood/Sengun/Garuba
    SA: Murray/White/Keldon/Vassell/Lonnie/Primo

    If you were starting a team, how would you rank the cores to build off of?

    All of them have a legit #1

    spurs have injury plagued white and djm still i bet some here will argue spurs core is better somehow

  11. #361
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I actually really like our youth honestly. I think they can be solid, but this FO needs to help them out and get them in a better spot. Let’s see what they can do with this cap space and flexibility. They have every opportunity to be real players in trades and free agency for this year or near future.

  12. #362
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    While I agree with the sentiment that they should have traded down and picked Primo plus another asset, are we sure there could have been a deal to be made at all? It seems like after Bouknight was taken 11 teams weren't looking to trade up, but trade down or trade out. It seems most teams didn't like this draft much.

    The only team that traded up was Houston, taking 16 for 2 future firsts. Notice that Presti didn't want 23 and 24 in this draft but two heavily protected future firsts via Was and Det, which could turn into 2nd rounders. OKC and NY traded down and out, Lakers traded out. Based on this let's assume the realistic deal was Houston's 23 and 24 for 12. In this case would Primo be there? Perhaps they got wind from some team or teams who were high on him in this range? I could see Wizards, OKC or Pelicans taking him.

    Just playing devil's advocate here. The Spurs pick was late, they probably were making calls.

  13. #363
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    What puzzles me right now is why Primo came out for the draft this year. Alabama had a lot of talent, so he was playing in a lot of shadows. It seems clear if he stayed another year, he was a lottery potential. Now, obviously he somehow got picked in the lottery anyway. In a way the Spurs got a lottery pick a year before he was ready to come out.

    I agree that it's frustrating for fans and must be for players. This is an indication of two things:

    1) No help for the developing young players. I don't think we can expect big splashes in FA or trades, either. The team will be substantially worse without DDR, Gay, etc.
    2) There is no stability in the roster. Because there's so many guards, it's clear some have to go eventually. One of the advantages they had last year was good chemistry. Now guys may be looking over their shoulders. Not necessarily due to Primo, but because of what the pick represents.

  14. #364
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    Warriors are a win now team and even they have better long term talent than us. And they won three les more recently than our last le. Rockets were the joke of our division after losing Harden and they've already pivoted to a rebuild with better youth prospects than SA in less than a season. SA is in a never ending holding pattern of mediocrity.
    Spurs are basically the Hornets during the Kemba era. They will continue to be a team that will fight for 8-10 seed with mediocre talent for the next several years until they suffer from some serious injuries that puts them in high lottery position.

  15. #365
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    While I agree with the sentiment that they should have traded down and picked Primo plus another asset, are we sure there could have been a deal to be made at all? It seems like after Bouknight was taken 11 teams weren't looking to trade up, but trade down or trade out. It seems most teams didn't like this draft much.

    The only team that traded up was Houston, taking 16 for 2 future firsts. Notice that Presti didn't want 23 and 24 in this draft but two heavily protected future firsts via Was and Det, which could turn into 2nd rounders. OKC and NY traded down and out, Lakers traded out. Based on this let's assume the realistic deal was Houston's 23 and 24 for 12. In this case would Primo be there? Perhaps they got wind from some team or teams who were high on him in this range? I could see Wizards, OKC or Pelicans taking him.

    Just playing devil's advocate here. The Spurs pick was late, they probably were making calls.
    I think that is entirely fair and rational way to look at it.

    Not speaking for anyone else but me though: Spurs FO hasn’t earned that benefit of the doubt from me to assume that stuff. They have shown a stunning lack of direction and creativity in my opinion. They are a major outlier with regards to trade frequency. Either they are hated and no one will even deal with them or they have no vision and can’t agree on what path to take so they do bare minimum.

    If SA had been a savvy team and been solid with asset management over the last few years I dont think this move in isolation would stand out. But when coupled with all that has gone in the last few years? It raises more flags for me and gives me great pause.

    And if what you say is true with regards to teams being unusually willing to trade out of the draft? Why not go ahead and do what HOU did and buy a pick with so many guys left that seemed worthy of a pick and could help positions of need?

  16. #366
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
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    So terribly disappointed that the Spurs had Moody, Kispert & Sengun to choose from and yet went on to reach for Primo. At worst they could have chosen one of the three and traded down with another asset for Primo and get another young player in the bargain. Houston was desperate to load up early. They could have been a good trade partner with two picks in the 20s, but no , Brian Wright & co. have yet again been conservative on the trade front. The BW era so far has been poor on the trade front, probably among the worst in the league in the last five years and its redeeming quality was Drafting, but this pick and how it played out puts a question mark on the drafting front as well.

    It remains to be seen if BW & co will redeem themselves at least in Free Agency by getting some value for Derozan in a S&T, getting a fruitful FA like John Collins and/or using cap space innovatively to either get picks or hoard it enough to get a run again in FA next year. If the FO is conservative again and the Spurs are mired in the 9-12 range yet again in the Western Conference, it will again be the worst of both worlds next year with the Spurs stuck in mediocrity without a way out.

    I just hope that the B+ talent in the team - Murray, White, Keldon, Jakob, Vassell - dont lose heart and continue to develop. One or two of them becoming A- will be a major boost next season with more FAs in play.

  17. #367
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    All of them have a legit #1

    spurs have injury plagued white and djm still i bet some here will argue spurs core is better somehow
    I think we added athletic SG/SF who can create proper spacing. I'm hoping the PATFO is not done yet. There's hopefully a S&T on Demar (I was hoping we got at least a pick on this. Garuba would be a great project at #23)

    Hopefully we are still on the hunt for John Collins

  18. #368
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    While I agree with the sentiment that they should have traded down and picked Primo plus another asset, are we sure there could have been a deal to be made at all? It seems like after Bouknight was taken 11 teams weren't looking to trade up, but trade down or trade out. It seems most teams didn't like this draft much.

    The only team that traded up was Houston, taking 16 for 2 future firsts. Notice that Presti didn't want 23 and 24 in this draft but two heavily protected future firsts via Was and Det, which could turn into 2nd rounders. OKC and NY traded down and out, Lakers traded out. Based on this let's assume the realistic deal was Houston's 23 and 24 for 12. In this case would Primo be there? Perhaps they got wind from some team or teams who were high on him in this range? I could see Wizards, OKC or Pelicans taking him.

    Just playing devil's advocate here. The Spurs pick was late, they probably were making calls.
    Some of us were talking about this elsewhere. I don't think there was a chance to trade down where they felt safe they could still pick him. The trade possibilities were OKC and NYK, as you say. OKC didn't really want to go up and NYK traded out. I don't think people valued the #12 pick. Plus if Primo was rising on team boards, then they had to get him, I suppose.

    There's a sense I have that if the draft was another week off, Primo might have started emerging in the media boards. They always seem to lag. For example, only in the last several days did Ziaire Williams start appearing in the top 10. He was way down for a long time.

  19. #369
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    Not speaking for anyone else but me though: Spurs FO hasn’t earned that benefit of the doubt from me to assume that stuff. They have shown a stunning lack of direction and creativity in my opinion. They are a major outlier with regards to trade frequency. Either they are hated and no one will even deal with them or they have no vision and can’t agree on what path to take so they do bare minimum.
    I think there's truth in both statements.

  20. #370
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    From the Athletic write up of Josh Primo:

    "Oats actually knows a third thing about the San Antonio’s latest draft pick: Primo is tough as . He sprained his MCL — it looked much worse than that — when his left knee buckled during the SEC tournament quarterfinals in March. He sat out the next three games but returned to play 40 total minutes against Maryland and UCLA in the NCAA Tournament, producing 16 points and six rebounds during the Tide’s first Sweet 16 run in almost 20 years.

    “There was already a lot of NBA buzz about him. He could’ve easily just said, ‘I’m done. I’m going to make sure my stock stays high. I’m not coming back and risking it,’” Oats says. “There was some talk from his camp about shutting him down. But he just did not want to do it. He fought it. He wanted to help his team, and he went all-in with the trainer to get back and play. The fact that he wanted to be part of that run, to be out there with his teammates instead of protecting his own interests, kind of reminds me of Jaylen Waddle for our football team.”

    Waddle, a star wide receiver and eventual No. 6 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft, broke his ankle on Oct. 24 last season. He returned to play for the Tide in the national championship game in January."

  21. #371
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I think there's truth in both statements.
    I am leaning that the FO is just a mess more than anything..and needs a change. It’s hard for me to believe they are hated when they have such a wide reaching coaching tree and staff etc..They have a lot of friends all around the league.

    The frustration for me lies in a couple of areas:

    1. Everyone leaning on the Kawhi left crutch. It’s true. He screwed the Spurs. But NO lost AD and managed it better. Harden forced himself out and HOU managed to give themselves a quicker/better shot at a rebuild. Yes, Kawhi cir stance from a value perspective was different; but it was SA that chose DDR vs rebuild and compounded mistakes and missed opportunities to be honest with themselves

    2. The lack of vision/creativity: GS with Curry/Klay/Dray have better picks than SA. Even as they were winning they never took their foot of the gas. They not only got creative as with DLO but then took calculated risks trading him for Wiggins to get more draft capital and have a win now team and a.great hedge for their future.

    Just look at our own division: Dallas makes a bold move to go get their guy in Luka and it was beautiful.

    NO chose young players and picks vs just forcing LA to find “win now vets for us” then make a great bold move to dump bad contracts and still maintain having a lottery pick.

    HOU chose to bottom out, took a great low risk high reward gamble on Porter Jr, landed Wood in FA etc…

    MEM been nailing drafts and making trades.

    Literally our entire division has made trades and taken smart creative gambles and put themselves in a good position despite 2 of them also losing Kawhi level stars.

    It’s hard to defend all these little “oh we can’t find a deal” comments when it’s been years and everyone else around is doing it.

  22. #372
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    So what seems better on paper:

    Dallas: Luka
    MEM: Ja + JJJ + Ziaire
    NO: Zion/Ingram (maybe Lonzo)
    HOU: Green/Wood/Sengun/Garuba
    SA: Murray/White/Keldon/Vassell/Lonnie/Primo

    If you were starting a team, how would you rank the cores to build off of?
    You forgot Kevin Porter Jr for the Rockets too. Makes Spurs look even worse

  23. #373
    Veteran J_Paco's Avatar
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    I still question/hate the pick especially with the other players that were available, but the reasoning is beginning to make a little sense. Drafting Vassell, Jones and now Primo in consecutive years allows the team to re - set the timeline and possibly begin offloading the older guards (for the vaunted draft capital).

    I would suspect the first to be offloaded is Lonnie, but it could just as easily be Derrick, DeJounte or (surprise) Keldon.

    I think the best thing the team can do now is be very patient with Primo and offload the most expendable piece (again, Lonnie).

    My biggest concern is that he could be Afernee Simons 2.0 and only show flashes, yet never really breaking out (thus far).

  24. #374
    Veteran J_Paco's Avatar
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    You forgot Kevin Porter Jr for the Rockets too. Makes Spurs look even worse
    Green and Porter Jr. are redundant skillset wise and I could easily see him (Kevin) being moved.

  25. #375
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I'm watching his highlights. He's quite slow. SlowMo 2.0??

    He got some serious range though

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