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  1. #251
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    I still can't wrap my head around this pick ...

    -Primo's value was mostly due to the thinking that if he had gone back to Alabama and played really well, he probably becomes a late lottery pick in 2022. He wasn't going to become a high lottery pick because he doesn't have the physical tools to be a high lottery pick -- but he could have gone back to Alabama and worked himself into that 10 to 15 range if all went well.

    -Primo decides to stick in the draft after elevating his stock from the middle of the second round to the end of the first or beginning of the second. Teams drafting in that range would have viewed him as a pretty good investment, with the logic being that they'd spend a ~28th pick in 2021 on a guy who had like a 50/50 shot of being a ~12th pick in 2022. That math checks out.

    -But ... the Spurs pick him instead with a late lottery pick in 2021. Trying to get that logic to work is difficult. For it to make sense, they have to be like 100% certain he is going to make that big jump. Without that big jump, there was no way he was going to be a lottery pick next year -- he would be a second rounder to undrafted without a sizeable leap forward. Picking him in the lottery this year made so little sense that Primo himself was shocked. I don't remember seeing a lottery pick who was so blown away by being picked in the lottery. I bet his agent was equally as stunned

    So, yeah, just a real head-scratcher. One scenario that may make sense is that the Spurs really wanted a developmental perimeter shooter. The two developmental perimeter shooters that stand out in this draft were Ziaire Williams and Primo. After Ziaire went tenth (a little surprising), perhaps that scared them enough to not trade back. Trading back when there's two guys you like is a lot easier than when you're down to the final player you really want.

    I've also had the thought that this could have been a Chip Engelland pick. After taking a closer look at Primo's form, it's exactly how Engelland teaches. He prepares for the shot well, has a short, repeatable stroke, releases his off-hand before the shot is released and gets full extension. I could imagine Engelland looking at Primo shooting in a gym and telling everyone that he's going to be a great shooter down the line. Then if you look at him only as a shooting prospect, his 38% three-point shooting as a freshman in the SEC when he was the youngest player in college basketball makes him an enticing pick for a shooting starved team -- especially when you add in his elite character traits. On the other hand, though, using the late lottery to take an unproven shooting prospect with little upside elsewhere in his game is not a good use of that asset.

    But bottom line, this goes down as at best a strange pick ... at worst a wasted pick. We'll see but it certainly doesn't give me confidence that the Spurs know how to pick in the lottery. Locking into one or two guys is okay when you're picking late in the first but it's a bad strategy when you're in the lottery.
    So they drafted a developmental Wayne Ellington?

    I think I could have talked myself into anyone else in the top 28. I could be sold on them, but this is bad.

    You know it's bad when a key selling point is what a good person he is. Lots of those picks last night were good kids.

    How could anyone be sold on him? Even the idea that the Spurs need shooting as a justification ... Sure they need shooting THIS year. They might not be desperate for shooting 2 years from now. If they really valued shooting above all, take Kispert or Murphy or Duarte. Or take Wieskamp in the second, decent chance he'd be there.

    Does he have outlier shooting skill? Not exactly, but he's a pretty good shooter for his age and a good kid.

    Is he an elite athlete? No, he's okay and a good kid.

    Does he have elite measurables? No, he has okay size and okay length and is young and a good kid.

    Is he an elite defensive prospect? No, he's okay, maybe pretty good one day and a good kid.

    Is he an elite transition player? No, he's a good kid.

    Is he projected as an elite playmaker for others? No, but he's young and a good kid.

    Is he projected to be elite as a self generator? No, but he's a good kid.

    Did he dominate at a young age? No, but he is young and a good kid.

    Does he stand out for blocks and steals and generating events? Not really, but he's a good kid.

    I don't get it.

  2. #252
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I will say this. Whoever steps up and backs Primo from the beginning is one courageous mother er. Will pay off with major bragging rights or backfire like crazy. Which of you is going to be a Primo fan? It’s going to be a while for me…

  3. #253
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    I'm betting he'll grow a bit in the next few years. He looks like a 14 year old maybe the Spurs are betting on that

  4. #254
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I will say this. Whoever steps up and backs Primo from the beginning is one courageous mother er. Will pay off with major bragging rights or backfire like crazy. Which of you is going to be a Primo fan? It’s going to be a while for me…
    I think there'll be Primo fans in the SL. He's going to have a game where he shoots lights out, and people will see him and realize he's a lot bigger than Forbes and is a shooting wing rather than a combo-guard.

    I'm a fan because there's no reason not be be a fan. Outside being the piece in a major trade, the ship is sailing with Primo now. He's the bluest chip in the Spurs' pile right now. If anyone's the franchise, it's him or maybe Vassell.

    Fan enough for you?

  5. #255
    Believe. JuneJive's Avatar
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    People are frustrated with Primo being an unknown.

    We can't see into the future, but why do we project it to be so grim.

    Kid has obvious two-way potential.

    Plus, we are still nowhere near a franchise player but if there is to be one it will definetly come via draft in the upcoming years. Which means Primo has time to develop.

    I also don't get the "we need a player that would help right away" people. Spurs ain't contending anytime soon. Help with what? Barely getting into the playoffs? They can do that as it stands.

    If anything this move shows they are planning for the long run.
    Things will change once a superstar calibre player emerges. And from there, with a healthy foundation, the team can go back to chasing les.

  6. #256
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    I will say this. Whoever steps up and backs Primo from the beginning is one courageous mother er. Will pay off with major bragging rights or backfire like crazy. Which of you is going to be a Primo fan? It’s going to be a while for me…
    well, can i least get a chance to see him in the summer league?

  7. #257
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    I think there'll be Primo fans in the SL. He's going to have a game where he shoots lights out, and people will see him and realize he's a lot bigger than Forbes and is a shooting wing rather than a combo-guard.

    I'm a fan because there's no reason not be be a fan. Outside being the piece in a major trade, the ship is sailing with Primo now. He's the bluest chip in the Spurs' pile right now. If anyone's the franchise, it's him or maybe Vassell.

    Fan enough for you?
    what makes me agree with you on the bolded part of your premise is that vassell and primo may be the quickest learners on the team. white has a solid IQ as well but lacks the physical intangibles of the former.

  8. #258
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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  9. #259
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    It's not really correct to say Primo is only a shooter. He showed some craftiness off the dribble and getting shots off, although it's true he was often stonewalled because he hasn't a good first step at this time and is physically weaker than he will be. There's also the tales of him showing off a lot more offensive ability in terms of roles during the combine than his role permitted at Alabama.

  10. #260
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    As the shock wears off, I'm still scratching my head. Of the many questions that pop up, here are a few:

    1) Are the Spurs so independent (distrustful) in the league that they can't count on finding trade partners? Something seems broken in this dept. See Carroll, Morris, etc.

    2) Is the Primo pick indicative of a large scale master plan? Trades in the works, free agents, etc.

    3) WTF is DJ doing by publicly displaying his disapproval of this pick? Is this common for NBA players regarding their future teammates?

    4) As someone who has been waiting for the Spurs to take a big risk and shake up the stats quo, they did just that. Somehow, it feels unsatisfying at present. Are we the most spoiled fan base out there?

    5) What if Primo pans out?
    That's a really easy question to answer - no. We're the second most spoiled fanbase, behind the Fakers.

    But we're probably #1 in terms of Org Success Vs Fan's Doom & Gloom. I mean, I keep hearing Bucks fans say how grateful they are for their chip and that they're set for a lifetime if it never happens again, same with Toronto fans. Spurs won a chip less than 10 years ago, 5 in total, more than 90% of the NBA's franchises, in all of our lifetimes - and a quick look at this board tells you all you need to know as far as "spoilt upbringing".

  11. #261
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    Me thinks they are relying on him growing 2 more inches.

    Or that they can develop him like crazy

    This was a lottery position….

  12. #262
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    I had Primo 22 on my Big Board and that was higher than most other people had him. I'm not concerned about his ability or upside but, the thing that concerns me is the total lack of awareness of the guys value to other teams. It was malpractice to not trade back and get him along with someone like Jones, Johnson, Jackson, or Kispert...

    Now we are sitting here hoping that this FO can do something it has never really been successful at and that's navigating the free agent market and making trades. It's fairly depressing...not because of the player but from the mismanagement perspective..


    I'd have went Sengun, but I get the reticence and wasn't really zeroed in on anyone else, so the pick is whatever, but at 12? Yeah, we don't know if the Thunder or whoever would have taken him (was it really going to be that difficult to make a trade at that point if they had to have him?), but there's always some excuse why they fail at asset management and can't maximize value.

    They're clearly the most incompetent organization in the league and when they complete another underwhelming off season with the predictable Markkanen signing, Mills re-signing, possibly Dieng, Fournier or Burks, etc. or whatever, the only positive is they should by default land a mid-high lottery pick next season and hopefully luck into a no brainer foundational piece.


    I still can't wrap my head around this pick ...

    -Primo's value was mostly due to the thinking that if he had gone back to Alabama and played really well, he probably becomes a late lottery pick in 2022. He wasn't going to become a high lottery pick because he doesn't have the physical tools to be a high lottery pick -- but he could have gone back to Alabama and worked himself into that 10 to 15 range if all went well.
    Don't even bother trying. This is them at their narrow minded, drinking their own Kool-Aid worst . . .

    The thing is, there's no reason to think they won't be in position to draft him next season and even if they're not, they've built up enough youth/draft capital that I'm sure they could have finagled their way into position to. No matter what leap he may make, this isn't Cunningham, Green, Mobley, etc. where it'd cost a king's ransom. They out dumbed themselves again.

  13. #263
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    i think timvp may have been correct in ruling out sengun to the spurs before the draft based on how the spurs have moved away from the post-up philosophy. sengun, for now at least, is a low blocks player that the spurs would have had to turn into a stretch 4 and so i wasn't shocked that sengun was left on the board.
    dude is gonna be a stretch. and he already shoots like DDR and LMA range. not understanding that and drafting an 18 year old kid with the sweet inside and midrange game, along with Jokic level passing skills and the form to stretch it out to the arc, is malpractice.

    his game was themost conplete. and I will forever roast them about this if primo doesn't pan out.

  14. #264
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    dude is gonna be a stretch. and he already shoots like DDR and LMA range. not understanding that and drafting an 18 year old kid with the sweet inside and midrange game, along with Jokic level passing skills and the form to stretch it out to the arc, is malpractice.

    his game was themost conplete. and I will forever roast them about this if primo doesn't pan out.
    but can the Spurs roast you if Sengun doesn’t pan out?

  15. #265
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    If we sign Markkanen I am going to ing loose it don’t want Chicago left overs - JUST pick a lane Spurs hopefully it’s the all tank lane and we can get a foundational piece cause this drafting 11 to 20 is going to kill me

  16. #266
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Sengun made sense because I didn't see Poeltl as spurs starting playoff center in 3 years time.

  17. #267
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    One thing I haven’t seen mentioned here is that, evidently, Primo is an irrational confidence guy. Ryan Russillo on the Ringer claimed this, at least, but in a negative Dion Waiters way. , that might be a compliment as far as I can tell, at least in the absence of anything else to get excited about with him. So a well mannered yet overly confident player? Maybe they’re hoping for some strong leadership. Let’s hope. #koolaid

  18. #268
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    i caught the tail end of an interview with coach oats of 'bama and he was giving some background on primo;

    1) this should be his freshman year in college as he graduated a year early from high school.
    2) MRIs and X-rays show that Primo's bone (epiphyseal) plates are still open meaning that he is still growing.
    3) they coached him up a lot at the point to start the season but then they backed off to let him do what he does best and let him process the information. then, towards the end of the season, they started playing him at the point again and it started to come together (he specifically mentioned the auburn game). the meniscus tear set him back a bit again but then he started to elevate his game again.
    4) his performance at some workouts in LA were great as they had him run the offense and he showed vast improvement in his pick and roll reads.
    5) he will likely become a wing who can do it all and could be 6'7" or 6'8".

    that was most of what i caught for what it's worth.
    Damn, if true, that's a pretty big deal. I don't mind folks calling the discussion "lipstick on a pig", and agree to an extent regarding where he was drafted; but now that that the drafting's over with, and Primo's on the team, he's starting to look like an interesting addition. Growth plates not closed is always great, graduating a year early on HS (why? Academic merit or something else?) can't be bad, and being a coachable and receptive player will always be a plus, especially for a team like the Spurs. I'm not really seeing him play the wing (let's wait and see if/how much he grows before touting him a "wing" at all, tbh, he's a guard until proven otherwise), but being a tall guard ain't a bad thing, especially on a team lacking size.

    I'll be tuning on to some Austin games next season, for sure.

  19. #269
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I think there'll be Primo fans in the SL. He's going to have a game where he shoots lights out, and people will see him and realize he's a lot bigger than Forbes and is a shooting wing rather than a combo-guard.

    I'm a fan because there's no reason not be be a fan. Outside being the piece in a major trade, the ship is sailing with Primo now. He's the bluest chip in the Spurs' pile right now. If anyone's the franchise, it's him or maybe Vassell.

    Fan enough for you?
    Learning his growth plates haven't closed has got my interest piqued, TBQH. Not sure I can tout myself a fan just yet - but after drowning my Sengun sorrows in booze last night, I'm ready to turn a new page and root for the guy. Hope he's showcased in Austin from the get-go, he shouldn't have much compe ion in the pecking order next season.

  20. #270
    OG Spurs fan TheChillFactor's Avatar
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    that was the first thing i thought, just because they mentioned how he won't turn 19 until christmas eve.

    if he is projected as a 6'6"- 6'8" ball handler that can actually make a goddamn 3 I can see why dejounte wasn't enthused.

  21. #271
    Believe. south side spur's Avatar
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    I will say this. Whoever steps up and backs Primo from the beginning is one courageous mother er. Will pay off with major bragging rights or backfire like crazy. Which of you is going to be a Primo fan? It’s going to be a while for me…
    I’m backing Primo from the beginning and no it’s not me being courageous I’m just a Spurs fan bro. It’s that simple. It’s not about bragging rights either. Did I know anything about him before the Spurs picked him? No. I watched a few scouting videos and liked what I saw. Shooting and ball handling. Smooth is the word that best describes him. I watched his interviews and liked what I heard.

    I’m supporting the kid. For me this pick was never going to be a factor this upcoming season. This season was always about Dejounte becoming the team leader, Vassell stepping up to be more of a factor offensively, and KJ and Luka taking the next step in their development. Specifically, Pop believing in KJ to close out more games and Luka just getting more minutes. I’m fine with Primo developing in Austin.

    A couple of points from the Brian Wright post draft virtual. It seems a trade is imminent. Just an observation from his reply to a question pertaining to how the roster will be filled out. The reporter mentioned free agency and Wright immediately brought up trades. I’m hoping it’s not Murray or Vassell but it is what it is. He also seemed to imply that Primo has a chance to see minutes with the big club immediately if his development is accelerated. We all know this team needs more 3 point shooting so who’s to say that won’t be his initial contribution off the bench? Even Forbes contributed somewhat as a rookie.

    I’m not a Pop supporter anymore. So I don’t want anyone to assume I’m a fluffer but I’ve also seen the same “sky is falling” comments over the years about EVERY draft pick only for it to turn into a comedy schtick which is easier than a “I was wrong about the kid” admission.

    You said it took awhile for you to come around on Vassell so what if it takes the same amount of time with Primo? No big deal bro.

    What I do find humorous is all of this “trade down” commentary as if this is the freakin NFL draft. Take the pick you want. I love how most people are acting like a lottery pick is a sure thing. Probably the same people who always want to tank when that has also guaranteed nothing for most teams.

    Also, I’m sure we all noticed the clock run down on the Spurs? Maybe I’m reading too much into it but how do we know they weren’t trying to trade the pick and found no deal they liked? If they wanted the kid take the freakin kid. All this predraft mock BS is meaningless just people trying to justify why they were right or why the Spurs were wrong.
    Last edited by south side spur; 07-30-2021 at 06:37 PM.

  22. #272
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    but can the Spurs roast you if Sengun doesn’t pan out?
    That would be immature and counterproductive.

  23. #273
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    I'm betting he'll grow a bit in the next few years. He looks like a 14 year old maybe the Spurs are betting on that
    he looks like that picture of DWhite in HS.

  24. #274
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    One thing I haven’t seen mentioned here is that, evidently, Primo is an irrational confidence guy. Ryan Russillo on the Ringer claimed this, at least, but in a negative Dion Waiters way. , that might be a compliment as far as I can tell, at least in the absence of anything else to get excited about with him. So a well mannered yet overly confident player? Maybe they’re hoping for some strong leadership. Let’s hope. #koolaid

    his interviewing skills reminds me of James Harden. Soft spoken but confident


  25. #275
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Damn, if true, that's a pretty big deal. I don't mind folks calling the discussion "lipstick on a pig", and agree to an extent regarding where he was drafted; but now that that the drafting's over with, and Primo's on the team, he's starting to look like an interesting addition. Growth plates not closed is always great, graduating a year early on HS (why? Academic merit or something else?) can't be bad, and being a coachable and receptive player will always be a plus, especially for a team like the Spurs. I'm not really seeing him play the wing (let's wait and see if/how much he grows before touting him a "wing" at all, tbh, he's a guard until proven otherwise), but being a tall guard ain't a bad thing, especially on a team lacking size.

    I'll be tuning on to some Austin games next season, for sure.
    "Graduating a year early" is more commonly referred to as reclassing, at least when it comes to American sports. Basically, Primo new if he graduated early he'd be eligible to be drafted a year sooner. So he moved up his graduation date, got to go to college sooner but still meets the requirements to be drafted under the current rules because he turns 19 before 12/31.

    Primo reclassed in February of last year, according to this link: https://247sports.com/Article/Josh-P...gon-143997217/

    I wouldn't take is as an academic achievement. It's more a dedication thing to make sure one takes all the necessary credits to graduate early. It takes planning, but usually players reclass doing into high school, so they have years to make up the credits. In Primo's case he reclassed his senior year, so either he was lucky or more likely had been planning on reclassing for years but wanted to leave the option open to just to in his normal year.

    Also, you can reclass for non-athletic reasons. I had some 17-year-olds with my group during freshman orientation.
    Last edited by Chinook; 07-30-2021 at 06:25 PM.

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