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  1. #451
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    Ok I got a little teary eyed when he mentioned his mom was born on the 12th and we drafted him as the 12th pick. The more I read and the more I watch tape of him the more I like this kid I can easily see how he started to move up in the draft and why teams and the Spurs liked him. He is definitely 100% Spurs material he has that Charisma that Keldon has I think those two will hit it off and the chemistry is going to be great on this team moving forward.

    I also think drafting him shows we are clearly on the rebuild it’s going to be interesting in what we do in free agency. Hopefully we are able to work out a trade with Derozz where we get either a young player or a draft pick - He’ll I am OK with getting an old vet on a one year bad contract if it gets us a good draft pick.

    One thing for sure is that Austin is going to be fun to go to watch our new draft picks from last year and this year play. Since we won’t be competing for a playoff I think will see a lot more of our draft picks get playing time then we have ever had. I think will finely get a good idea of what we have with our young core as Murray, White, Walker, Vassel, Luka, Tre, are all going to see major minutes.




  2. #452
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Huh?

    I presented a counter to your point on Primo being a massive reach, as clearly stated. I literally argued word for word a point you brought up.
    Primo was not a massive reach based on the information provided.
    Ok thanks. Not my point but it’s already something I don’t care any further. You got triggered by something my friend.

  3. #453
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Kid seems to have the same charming personality as Keldon does

    If so, this team will be easy to root for in the near future (assuming he pans out)

  4. #454
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    It’s never been a problem here but you can absolutely ruin a player by playing him too soon. I actually think Lonnie would have been a good example of that. He would have been blown off the court if he played his first couple seasons on most other teams.

    His pace defensively and ability to move off ball are light years ahead of his rookie year. He just needed to develop around players that moved at his own level of play with a few sniffs of the next level.

    If Lonnie becomes anything here or on another team it’ll be because our team was patient for two years while he came around and learned how to play beyond playground ball.
    Nah.

  5. #455
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    Your opinion. The Spurs think differently. The big 3 have been gone for years, and they’re still sending each first rounder down for most of their first season.

  6. #456
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Your opinion. The Spurs think differently. The big 3 have been gone for years, and they’re still sending each first rounder down for most of their first season.
    I don't know that anyone here is debating what move or PATFO's opinions are. But sure.

  7. #457
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    It’s not like it’s every player. Vassell didn’t get the Lonnie treatment. There are times when Lonnie still looks like a moped on a highway but at least he’s functional. I certainly never felt like he was mentally weak but accepting a path to becoming a better player by playing down and developing is way more easy to absorb than getting destroyed by superior talent in your rookie year.

    I think they’ve done a good job with Walker.

    Had Walker been drafted by the Wolves or Bulls and I bet he’d be nowhere near where he’s at today. They would have just let him sink or swim.

  8. #458
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Your opinion. The Spurs think differently. The big 3 have been gone for years, and they’re still sending each first rounder down for most of their first season.
    And short of Derrick White, what is the success story? Bc Lonnie still has the same weaknesses he did as a rookie, he gets lost defensively and is passive. Vassell didn’t really play in Austin. Dejounte didn’t. Sammich still sucks. I guess you can say KJ but almost everyone here was saying how it was time for him to graduate to the big leagues. If anything is putting him in Austin for so long held him back a bit to the point where we got lucky as he even played his rookie year.

    Everyone keeps touting about Austin this and Austin that. But had Pop backed away from the useless vets and actually committed to the youth they still would’ve learned the exact same ing system

  9. #459
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    I agree a little bit I think certain players it helped and certain players it probably hurt I know White was good to go and probably should have been brought up much earlier. While Walker it helped he is still bad on defense but at least he doesn't have that lost deer in the head light look.

    I think Vassel could have used G League in getting a lot of minutes and getting confident and still being called up - I think right now in rebuilt mode all picks should be getting time with the big club if they not playing in G League put them with the big boys.

  10. #460
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    He will get better with time, just like the following players have: Devin Booker, Giannis, Jaren Jackson Jr. I am sure there are others, but these are high profile enough that I remember.

    One issue I have with stashing in the Gleague your lottery picks is a point that Chinook makes and I quoted ahead of this reply. The team isn’t good enough to be stashing guys. What’s worth a gamble on a lottery pick if he’s in the gleague 2 years? That’s a question of perceived ceiling. What’s a lottery pick to the team that won’t contribute to the team minutes for a full year or two, and then at that point needs to be brought in with baby steps? That’s ok for the Spurs when they had a full rotation of veterans that were in win now mode, and those development players played rest games for Manu and Tony, when there were injuries, etc.

    The Spurs are no longer good enough to take two years developing guys.
    I‘m with you on that but there’s one big problem here: Popovich

    The old man only knows how to coach one way and weather we‘re in the lottery or the playoffs he will always pull the same . So get ready for Primo to have a whole season in Austin

  11. #461
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    12/10/21 Article on Josh Primo

    Quote is from a senior (at the time) and fellow NBA draftee, Herb Jones, saying this about a freshman:

    There is plenty of basketball in front of the talented freshman, and his ability is starting to show on the court. But something his new teammates have noticed is the newcomer’s effort.

    “He’s a great player,” said senior wing Herbert Jones on Thursday’s Zoom call. “He plays hard. He can defend well. He can shoot the ball well. He can handle the ball well. He doesn’t have a lot of holes in his game. I mean, I try to play as hard as him at times. He doesn’t know that, but yeah, I try to play as hard as him most times.”

    https://247sports.com/college/alabam...all-156570343/
    future articles are awesome

  12. #462
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    I‘m with you on that but there’s one big problem here: Popovich

    The old man only knows how to coach one way and weather we‘re in the lottery or the playoffs he will always pull the same . So get ready for Primo to have a whole season in Austin
    I actually doubt it. He gave Vassell some PT last season and if this kid is advanced as Vassell which he certainly seems to be, and we lose DeRozan, I cannot imagine a scenario where he doesn't get at least a bit of run.

  13. #463
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    I actually doubt it. He gave Vassell some PT last season and if this kid is advanced as Vassell which he certainly seems to be, and we lose DeRozan, I cannot imagine a scenario where he doesn't get at least a bit of run.
    yeah and after Vassell had his best game of the season he got benched for the rest of it. I can see plenty scenarios: Fournier, Micic, Mills. Some kind of vets will be added

  14. #464
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    I think they are really prioritizing character and leadership qualities in the draft (except Luka, I don’t know what that was). This was a weird swing for the fences likely motivated by his personality and a glimmer of untapped potential from the Combine. The FO thinks they are probably playing it safe though, which is the irony, given the poor asset management. But hey, he’s here. We have troops on the ground now. Support the troops now, I guess. I mean, I can support him while also questioning the FO.

  15. #465
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    future articles are awesome
    Dejounte... Creating time paradoxes...

  16. #466
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    And short of Derrick White, what is the success story? Bc Lonnie still has the same weaknesses he did as a rookie, he gets lost defensively and is passive. Vassell didn’t really play in Austin. Dejounte didn’t. Sammich still sucks. I guess you can say KJ but almost everyone here was saying how it was time for him to graduate to the big leagues. If anything is putting him in Austin for so long held him back a bit to the point where we got lucky as he even played his rookie year.

    Everyone keeps touting about Austin this and Austin that. But had Pop backed away from the useless vets and actually committed to the youth they still would’ve learned the exact same ing system
    It's not about the system, it's about gradually increasing the skill level of the compe ion so as to not overmatch your rookie(s) and have them flame out after running against the "wall" that is the NBA.

    There's plenty of success stories regarding players joining the G-League for development their rookie/first seasons (the GL website actually literally has a sidebar of "success stories", last time I checked headlined by Rudy Gobert and Khris Middleton). It's not just a "Spurs thing". It's much more plausible that the Spurs haven't crafted a diamond out of dirt, so to speak, out of Austin in recent years, because the talent they've had to work with was subpar, than the notion that the GL program itself doesn't work. And lastly, to your quoted remark - the fact that Pop can't get over himself and his pet-playing ways, isn't a detriment to the pro-GL argument - just a detriment of Pop as a coach. They're two separate matters - other coaches manage to both send rookies to the GL, and find them minutes with the normal team before they're mentally checked out from either never facing serious compe ion, feeling left out in regards to the core team, or never feeling like they're "good enough to play with the pros".

    There's players with such a cutthroat mentality, that any wall they face, no matter how tough and overmatching, is just fuel for their fire. Kobe for example, not even going to college before getting to the NBA, and still managing to rise to the top. But that's much the exception, and not the rule. For the rest of players, the GL makes a ton of sense.

  17. #467
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    It's not about the system, it's about gradually increasing the skill level of the compe ion so as to not overmatch your rookie(s) and have them flame out after running against the "wall" that is the NBA.

    There's plenty of success stories regarding players joining the G-League for development their rookie/first seasons (the GL website actually literally has a sidebar of "success stories", last time I checked headlined by Rudy Gobert and Khris Middleton). It's not just a "Spurs thing". It's much more plausible that the Spurs haven't crafted a diamond out of dirt, so to speak, out of Austin in recent years, because the talent they've had to work with was subpar, than the notion that the GL program itself doesn't work. And lastly, to your quoted remark - the fact that Pop can't get over himself and his pet-playing ways, isn't a detriment to the pro-GL argument - just a detriment of Pop as a coach. They're two separate matters - other coaches manage to both send rookies to the GL, and find them minutes with the normal team before they're mentally checked out from either never facing serious compe ion, feeling left out in regards to the core team, or never feeling like they're "good enough to play with the pros".

    There's players with such a cutthroat mentality, that any wall they face, no matter how tough and overmatching, is just fuel for their fire. Kobe for example, not even going to college before getting to the NBA, and still managing to rise to the top. But that's much the exception, and not the rule. For the rest of players, the GL makes a ton of sense.
    And if we used it correctly like other teams then I wouldnt be mad about it. Also Middleton wasn’t even drafted by MIL so that’s a moot point. There’s also lots of lottery picks that make the all star team that haven’t been to the G-League. Like every single one of them except for the 2 players you named.

    But you can’t be raving about us using Austin and how beneficial it is when it isn’t beneficial to us at all. Like who have we really developed in Austin? White? All we do is waste a year or 2 years in Lukas case and then we play them 10 minutes a game the next year (or in Lonnies case 10 minutes every 5 games and bench him for Marco) and then we still have the same questions about Lonnie as a player. And then we go into his 3rd year and guess what, we still have the same worries and questions about Lonnie. Can he be assertive? Can he not get lost so easily on defense? Will he show up for more than once every games? Is Pop in his head? And now it’s his 4th year and we don’t know about Lonnie and Austin did him zero good for us as an organization.

    We were about to do the same to Keldon but we got lucky as that the bubble came to fruition. Bc Pop benched him the whole year to “teach” him in Austin. Then we were going to waste another ing year of him coming off the bench. And rinse and repeat the Lonnie problem. It wasn’t Austin that helped Keldon, it was his own demeanor of just playing hard. He was still lost of defense and he still didn’t really know the offense he was just hungry. This isn’t the 29th pick anymore. We have lottery picks now. Makes no sense to just stash a player for 2 years when we suck anyways.

    Luka might not even get playing time in his entire contract. He’s not even a stash.

  18. #468
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    https://deanondraft.com/ has a tough grading curve on many of different teams draft choices and it made for an interesting read. For the Spurs he had this to say:

    12. Josh Primo:D- San AntonioPrimo is a curious choice at #12– it would seem that the Spurs may be overreacting to the before/after pictures of Giannis, and trying to find the guy who makes the next physical transformation. Primo is the youngest prospect in the draft, has a nice frame, interviews well, and has the best odds of having a future growth spurt.
    So perhaps it is reasonable to bet on above average development both physically and skillwise in Primo, but that still isn’t enough to take him in the lottery. Even if he has a big 2″ growth spurt to 6’7″ and 6’11”, fills out, and improves his defense (which is currently bad), and athleticism (which is currently mediocre), you don’t get an MVP caliber player, and you may not even get an all-star. He averaged 1.5 assists per 40 vs 2.4 turnovers, which indicates that he needs significant improvement to his ball skills to survive on the perimeter, and it is highly unlikely he is ever a perimeter creator.
    And if he doesn’t have a big growth spurt, and stays at his current dimensions, he is just a guy who is too small to guard wings, may be terrible on defense, and lacks the ball skills to justify his defensive versatility.
    San Antonio’s 2nd round pick Joe Wieskamp already has ideal wing dimensions, better offensive polish, and is likely the better athlete. Primo’s best case is going to be better than Wieskamp’s, but Wieskamp has an easier path to useful role player and went a full round later.
    If you want to bet on a young guy being good, you are much safer taking a guy like Jaden Springer who is already good and only 3 months older instead of doing a bunch of ridiculous extrapolation for Primo. And Springer went an entire 16 slots later.
    Read the article for other ratings on other picks. I can’t say I agree with him on everything, but do agree on a lot of them and overall a lot of this is perception. It will be interesting to see where the perception flops and someone overperforms expectations because it happens every draft, plus the inevitable busts.

  19. #469
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    And if we used it correctly like other teams then I wouldnt be mad about it. Also Middleton wasn’t even drafted by MIL so that’s a moot point. There’s also lots of lottery picks that make the all star team that haven’t been to the G-League. Like every single one of them except for the 2 players you named.

    But you can’t be raving about us using Austin and how beneficial it is when it isn’t beneficial to us at all. Like who have we really developed in Austin? White?
    I'll answer your post in two parts for sake of ease.

    First, why don't you check out the G-League "facts" page: https://gleague.nba.com/news/alumni-in-nba-2020-21/. I suggest also checking the frontpage, "NBA G League Alumni" part, to see the full player list.

    Middleton was just the first one that came to mind, but there's a ton of successful NBA players that started out in or played significant time in the GL; notably, our very own Danny Green had his stint in Austin. The GL's a proven track of development for players of every caliber and, the stats agree, the NBA is seeing a larger and larger GL-vet portion every year. Yes, top lottery picks don't tend to go to the GL, but that's precisely because the NBA team itself will have the same function than the GL itself for the top-talent: feed the ball to him, let him work on his game at the cost of losing games, focus on his development. So it doesn't matter if a top-picking team doesn't make the playoffs or close to it in a lottery talent's rookie season, and the pick gets the same role/attention than a lower-level talent rookie would get in the GL, but wouldn't get on that same team.

    The Spurs of late under Pop have been particularly too conservative in regards to their rookie's playtime and role, but that's not a fault of the GL development system, it's coaching related. It doesn't make sense to ditch the GL route, which helps in the previous stage, to change a behavior that's property of the SanAn team. I too hope Pop retires before long, and Becky or whomever comes in and gives the young players the freedom they deserve, but it's a separate discussion - one we'd agree on.

  20. #470
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    https://deanondraft.com/ has a tough grading curve on many of different teams draft choices and it made for an interesting read. For the Spurs he had this to say:
    I'm a huge Springer guy but even I have to say the upside of Primo is higher all things considered.
    I imagine the Spurs will keep Primo on a minimal weights program to try and maximize that illusive, yet undoubtedly there, height potential.

    Rooting for both guys and Kai Jones this draft. Thanks for sharing SAGirl.

    When you look at the early 2022 draft from some publications, 6 of the top 8 guys are bigs, 6"10' or taller too.

  21. #471
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    But you can’t be raving about us using Austin and how beneficial it is when it isn’t beneficial to us at all. Like who have we really developed in Austin? White? All we do is waste a year or 2 years in Lukas case and then we play them 10 minutes a game the next year (or in Lonnies case 10 minutes every 5 games and bench him for Marco) and then we still have the same questions about Lonnie as a player. And then we go into his 3rd year and guess what, we still have the same worries and questions about Lonnie. Can he be assertive? Can he not get lost so easily on defense? Will he show up for more than once every games? Is Pop in his head? And now it’s his 4th year and we don’t know about Lonnie and Austin did him zero good for us as an organization.

    We were about to do the same to Keldon but we got lucky as that the bubble came to fruition. Bc Pop benched him the whole year to “teach” him in Austin. Then we were going to waste another ing year of him coming off the bench. And rinse and repeat the Lonnie problem. It wasn’t Austin that helped Keldon, it was his own demeanor of just playing hard. He was still lost of defense and he still didn’t really know the offense he was just hungry.
    I think the problem here lies in that you expect the GL to be a skill floor-raiser for every player that goes through it, when that's not the role it has. A player that doesn't have the mental game IQ to read defenses well (Lonnie) isn't suddenly going to gain that skill down there. If Luka doesn't have the talent level of shooting needed to stay in the NBA, no amount of games in Austin could help him get there ( , he could consider a career there, even ). Of your examples, maybe Keldon has the higher talent level than either Lonnie or Luka (looking likely right now tbh), and that allows him to "develop more" in Austin and sooner take the "next step" into overmatching the players there, where Lonnie still didn't look convincingly dominating after an entire GL season.

    I personally believe Pop ed with Lonnie way too much for him to be a good example - he's the poster boy for what I told you either. Bad coaching. Inconsistent role. Not getting featured, playmaked for, trusted in. He might never have been destined for NBA s om as a talent, but that didn't help at all. But anyways - the entire point of the GL is to both smooth over the transition in compe ion level and physicality for younger players, and also give NBA prospects of any type or game the opportunity to get featured, work on specific things over and over. There is no sense in removing a system that not only makes sense, given rookies tend to be pretty weak physically, but also bears more fruit league-wide with each season that passes. Literally.


    This isn’t the 29th pick anymore. We have lottery picks now. Makes no sense to just stash a player for 2 years when we suck anyways.


    Luka might not even get playing time in his entire contract. He’s not even a stash.
    The drafting spot of any given player is irrelevant to the GL development system. Yes, lottery picks are expected to have a bigger role early on than late firsts, but if you're drafting developmental players, they're just underdeveloped, no matter the pick #. Primo is the perfect example for this.... Lottery pick, and yet will be the youngest player in the entire NBA next season. You don't throw a kid like that into the fire without seeing if he can hang with an in-between league, if you can, by any means. And it'll do him good especially, since they'll probably target his PG, passing and playmaking skills, which he wouldn't be able to get standing in the corner to spot Dejounte or White up.

    I don't really see how this model of development can hurt players, tbh. It looks to me like you're not happy about our recent picks reaching the heights you'd expected, and isolating the blame on Austin. I too want to know what we have in our rookies/young players, and I think you're really exaggerating when you say the Spurs will "stash a player for 2 years" when the rookies continually got games with the higher-ups to show their skill and development, and didn't attend a second season of Austin unless they were particularly raw in one area or another. I hope Luka pans out just as much as anyone (well not the haters)... But I wouldn't blame Austin if he doesn't.

  22. #472
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    https://deanondraft.com/ has a tough grading curve on many of different teams draft choices and it made for an interesting read. For the Spurs he had this to say:



    Read the article for other ratings on other picks. I can’t say I agree with him on everything, but do agree on a lot of them and overall a lot of this is perception. It will be interesting to see where the perception flops and someone overperforms expectations because it happens every draft, plus the inevitable busts.
    Lazy analysis TBH, I don't like it one bit.

    Doesn't look like the writer researched Primo for more than 2 whole minutes before writing this up, really. No mention whatsoever of his shooting ability - it is literally not addressed, instead his only selling point is being the youngest player in the draft? Looking at just his A/T ratio averages and decide that's a foregone analysis of Cuz's ball-handling skills and makes it "highly unlikely he is ever a perimeter creator", when his role on offense was to be a spot-up shooter and never a creator? Primo was never sold as a PG nor played as one yet it'd seem otherwise from the article. Then lastly, saying that if he doesn't hit a growth spurt, he'll never be good on defense nor have ball skills to compensate? And nothing about shooting, seriously?

    And lastly, ending the review implying again the Spurs only took Primo because of his age. No mention either of his rising draft stock previous to the draft as a factor in the Spurs taking him early. Very, very lazy analysis.

  23. #473
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    Lazy analysis TBH, I don't like it one bit.

    Doesn't look like the writer researched Primo for more than 2 whole minutes before writing this up, really. No mention whatsoever of his shooting ability - it is literally not addressed, instead his only selling point is being the youngest player in the draft? Looking at just his A/T ratio averages and decide that's a foregone analysis of Cuz's ball-handling skills and makes it "highly unlikely he is ever a perimeter creator", when his role on offense was to be a spot-up shooter and never a creator? Primo was never sold as a PG nor played as one yet it'd seem otherwise from the article. Then lastly, saying that if he doesn't hit a growth spurt, he'll never be good on defense nor have ball skills to compensate? And nothing about shooting, seriously?

    And lastly, ending the review implying again the Spurs only took Primo because of his age. No mention either of his rising draft stock previous to the draft as a factor in the Spurs taking him early. Very, very lazy analysis.
    Yeah I agree, especially from someone who tries to zag on draft prospects every year in the hope he lucks into a crazy prediction. It's easier to make an 'analysis' that a 12th pick would fail to become a star, most of them never become one duhh. Some don't even become rotation players.

    My personal opinion is that after the top few picks in any draft the talent level becomes pretty similar and what the outcome for these draftees would be depends way more on development than talent disparity.

  24. #474
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    The dean-on-draft blurb was a little light, not really going into why his defense would be bad for instance.

    But I'm not bothered by the ignoring or playing down of the shooting. Shooting off the catch that Primo excelled at isn't that big a deal for finding in the league. If it was Wieskamp would have been a first rounder, and Kispert would have been high in the lottery. And guys like Bertans, Joe Harris, Danny Green, Duncan Robinson, Wayne Ellington, Seth Curry, Kyle Korver, Bryn Forbes, all would have been lottery picks instead of second rounders, late firsts, or undrafted. Reddikk or McDermott were the exceptions.

  25. #475
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Lazy analysis TBH, I don't like it one bit.

    Doesn't look like the writer researched Primo for more than 2 whole minutes before writing this up, really. No mention whatsoever of his shooting ability - it is literally not addressed, instead his only selling point is being the youngest player in the draft? Looking at just his A/T ratio averages and decide that's a foregone analysis of Cuz's ball-handling skills and makes it "highly unlikely he is ever a perimeter creator", when his role on offense was to be a spot-up shooter and never a creator? Primo was never sold as a PG nor played as one yet it'd seem otherwise from the article. Then lastly, saying that if he doesn't hit a growth spurt, he'll never be good on defense nor have ball skills to compensate? And nothing about shooting, seriously?

    And lastly, ending the review implying again the Spurs only took Primo because of his age. No mention either of his rising draft stock previous to the draft as a factor in the Spurs taking him early. Very, very lazy analysis.
    I don’t know if you read the article but he’s a strongly inclined analytics guy, so his perspective is narrow and obviously prone to overlook things he has no personal knowledge of.

    The ranking is also related to his prospects draft ranking, so if there were better prospects on the board when a team drafted a guy, he wouldn’t consider that a good pick and that’s why I mentioned he was harsh.

    In that sense it’s narrow, but he’s predicted some busts in the past using his analytics models so he offers IMO an interesting perspective. His analysis is also cost/benefit based which I am not used to reading or seeing discussed often. I just found it interesting.
    Last edited by SAGirl; 08-02-2021 at 03:07 AM.

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