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  1. #476
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Lazy analysis TBH, I don't like it one bit.

    Doesn't look like the writer researched Primo for more than 2 whole minutes before writing this up, really. No mention whatsoever of his shooting ability - it is literally not addressed, instead his only selling point is being the youngest player in the draft? Looking at just his A/T ratio averages and decide that's a foregone analysis of Cuz's ball-handling skills and makes it "highly unlikely he is ever a perimeter creator", when his role on offense was to be a spot-up shooter and never a creator? Primo was never sold as a PG nor played as one yet it'd seem otherwise from the article. Then lastly, saying that if he doesn't hit a growth spurt, he'll never be good on defense nor have ball skills to compensate? And nothing about shooting, seriously?

    And lastly, ending the review implying again the Spurs only took Primo because of his age. No mention either of his rising draft stock previous to the draft as a factor in the Spurs taking him early. Very, very lazy analysis.
    I donít know if you read the article but heís a strongly inclined analytics guy, so his perspective is narrow and obviously prone to overlook things he has no personal knowledge of.

    The ranking is also related to his prospects draft ranking, so if there were better prospects on the board when a team drafted a guy, he wouldnít consider that a good pick and thatís why I mentioned he was harsh.

    In that sense itís narrow, but heís predicted some busts in the past using his analytics models so he offers IMO an interesting perspective. His analysis is also cost/benefit based which I am not used to reading or seeing discussed often. I just found it interesting.
    Last edited by SAGirl; 08-02-2021 at 03:07 AM.

  2. #477
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    The dean-on-draft blurb was a little light, not really going into why his defense would be bad for instance.

    But I'm not bothered by the ignoring or playing down of the shooting. Shooting off the catch that Primo excelled at isn't that big a deal for finding in the league. If it was Wieskamp would have been a first rounder, and Kispert would have been high in the lottery. And guys like Bertans, Joe Harris, Danny Green, Duncan Robinson, Wayne Ellington, Seth Curry, Kyle Korver, Bryn Forbes, all would have been lottery picks instead of second rounders, late firsts, or undrafted. Reddikk or McDermott were the exceptions.
    The shooting isnít mentioned because itís the one thing he does well. I assumed that was the reason, otherwise what is he doing even getting drafted. I think his analytics models showed someone who is not remarkable enough to go that high, and if he watched a short snippet of his, like I did in the first one I found, it just offers a few highlights of a guy shooting off the catch.

    I think his opinion was highly influenced too by better prospects being on the board at that point because I noticed that on other teams he ranked poorly.

  3. #478
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    Ok thanks. Not my point but itís already something I donít care any further. You got triggered by something my friend.
    I simply talked basketball on a basketball forum. You're providing personal evaluations. Projecting very hard here and not sure why. Have a good day.

  4. #479
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    Kid seems to have the same charming personality as Keldon does

    If so, this team will be easy to root for in the near future (assuming he pans out)
    I like both of them from what I've seen character wise. I think something that isn't mentioned much is Primo has a little fire in him. Watching his tapes, he has at ude and showmanship towards other basketball players where making plays. His demeanor doesn't say that at all. Definitely reminds me of Keldon in that aspect as well. He wants to compete.

  5. #480
    Saytowns Fawtbox King lebomb's Avatar
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    Im good with the picks. Both will work out fine.


    Seriously, a niggra aint jokin.

  6. #481
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Ever since deanondraft came out as a racist, itís hard to take him seriously.

  7. #482
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    yeah and after Vassell had his best game of the season he got benched for the rest of it. I can see plenty scenarios: Fournier, Micic, Mills. Some kind of vets will be added
    I didn't say it would be logical when he plays...

  8. #483
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I don’t know if you read the article but he’s a strongly inclined analytics guy, so his perspective is narrow and obviously prone to overlook things he has no personal knowledge of.

    The ranking is also related to his prospects draft ranking, so if there were better prospects on the board when a team drafted a guy, he wouldn’t consider that a good pick and that’s why I mentioned he was harsh.
    In that sense it’s narrow, but he’s predicted some busts in the past using his analytics models so he offers IMO an interesting perspective. His analysis is also cost/benefit based which I am not used to reading or seeing discussed often. I just found it interesting.
    Agreed. He gave Cade a “D” and the Jalen Green pick an “F”. He has his methods, perhaps contrarian, or aggressively unswayed by the media, but seems consistent.

  9. #484
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Ever since deanondraft came out as a racist, it’s hard to take him seriously.
    Damn. What happened?

  10. #485
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    Ever since deanondraft came out as a racist, itís hard to take him seriously.
    And also this. Stats guys think Sengun is a god called him an mvp point center.


  11. #486
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    I think the problem here lies in that you expect the GL to be a skill floor-raiser for every player that goes through it, when that's not the role it has. A player that doesn't have the mental game IQ to read defenses well (Lonnie) isn't suddenly going to gain that skill down there. If Luka doesn't have the talent level of shooting needed to stay in the NBA, no amount of games in Austin could help him get there ( , he could consider a career there, even ). Of your examples, maybe Keldon has the higher talent level than either Lonnie or Luka (looking likely right now tbh), and that allows him to "develop more" in Austin and sooner take the "next step" into overmatching the players there, where Lonnie still didn't look convincingly dominating after an entire GL season.

    I personally believe Pop ed with Lonnie way too much for him to be a good example - he's the poster boy for what I told you either. Bad coaching. Inconsistent role. Not getting featured, playmaked for, trusted in. He might never have been destined for NBA s om as a talent, but that didn't help at all. But anyways - the entire point of the GL is to both smooth over the transition in compe ion level and physicality for younger players, and also give NBA prospects of any type or game the opportunity to get featured, work on specific things over and over. There is no sense in removing a system that not only makes sense, given rookies tend to be pretty weak physically, but also bears more fruit league-wide with each season that passes. Literally.




    The drafting spot of any given player is irrelevant to the GL development system. Yes, lottery picks are expected to have a bigger role early on than late firsts, but if you're drafting developmental players, they're just underdeveloped, no matter the pick #. Primo is the perfect example for this.... Lottery pick, and yet will be the youngest player in the entire NBA next season. You don't throw a kid like that into the fire without seeing if he can hang with an in-between league, if you can, by any means. And it'll do him good especially, since they'll probably target his PG, passing and playmaking skills, which he wouldn't be able to get standing in the corner to spot Dejounte or White up.

    I don't really see how this model of development can hurt players, tbh. It looks to me like you're not happy about our recent picks reaching the heights you'd expected, and isolating the blame on Austin. I too want to know what we have in our rookies/young players, and I think you're really exaggerating when you say the Spurs will "stash a player for 2 years" when the rookies continually got games with the higher-ups to show their skill and development, and didn't attend a second season of Austin unless they were particularly raw in one area or another. I hope Luka pans out just as much as anyone (well not the haters)... But I wouldn't blame Austin if he doesn't.
    No itís not that I donít like how our picks have panned out. Itís more like I believe there is zero point in Austin while Pop is the coach. In theory, the GL could be a good thing for players but the reality is that it isnít. Bc in the G-League they have consistent roles, they get consistent minutes and consistent coaching. All of these out good things!

    However on the real team they get none of these things. They get a role but itís to just sit in the corner and have no plays drawn up for you, they get inconsistent minutes and are apa ways worried about getting benched for some perceived mistake, and they get inconsistent coaching where the coach does and says to them but doesnít follow through with the vets. Thats a horrible way to teach IMO

    So while Austin could be used like youíd said, I believe we might as well just play them bc they have to restart anyways and if they are going to restart then might as well be on the main team. Like everyone assumes that Primo is going to have PG duties at Austin but Pop wonít play him at PG maybe ever so thatís a waste of time then. Heís just going to sit him in the corner offensively anyways so whatís the point of Austin?

    That make sense Sugus?

  12. #487
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    For a sunnier outlook, ESPN Jay Bilas:
    ESPN basketball analyst Jay Bilas: “I think the more I watched him, the more I really liked him. I’d be surprised if he’s not a first-round selection. Really a talented player, one of those kind of do-it-all guys that can — he has better size than I thought, and he’s versatile on both ends of the floor. Came off the bench, but great effort and can handle it.
    “I was very impressed with the way he played at the combine. He’s a good catch-and-shoot guy. I liked him a lot, and with the way he defended, as well, and he showed he could handle it, which I honestly wasn’t sure that he projected necessarily as an initiating or handling guard. He’s got a lot of ability. I was really impressed with him, and just — he can be a sniper shooting the ball.” I

    https://alabama.rivals.com/news/alab...-draft-roundup

  13. #488
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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  14. #489
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    I don’t know if you read the article but he’s a strongly inclined analytics guy, so his perspective is narrow and obviously prone to overlook things he has no personal knowledge of.

    The ranking is also related to his prospects draft ranking, so if there were better prospects on the board when a team drafted a guy, he wouldn’t consider that a good pick and that’s why I mentioned he was harsh.

    In that sense it’s narrow, but he’s predicted some busts in the past using his analytics models so he offers IMO an interesting perspective. His analysis is also cost/benefit based which I am not used to reading or seeing discussed often. I just found it interesting.
    The analytics approach is not the best one to evaluate such a young guy. It doesn‘t take into account his low usage. The younger the player the more you have to watch him the get the whole picture.

  15. #490
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    The analytics approach is not the best one to evaluate such a young guy. It doesnĎt take into account his low usage. The younger the player the more you have to watch him the get the whole picture.
    I think analytics can take some of this into account. I think the issue is role vs sample size. Regardless, the FO is prioritizing interview more heavily than any other team, likely after Nephew took a dump on the franchise, and so that wonít be part of analytics. So, I guess it had to have been an incredible interview. Gulp.

    The team is trying to play it so safe with character that it pushes them into a different risk with asset management. Hey, I donít want bad character guys, Iím already growing weary of DJís dysregulated tweets and IG posts, but heís a risk worth taking. Letís hope Primo develops. He has to achieve something for his leadership to be relevant at all, and he should at least fill a Mills role, I guess.
    Last edited by The Truth #6; 08-02-2021 at 01:28 PM.

  16. #491
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I think analytics can take some of this into account. I think the issue is role vs sample size. Regardless, the FO is prioritizing interview more heavily than any other team, likely after Nephew too a dump on the franchise, and so that won’t be part of analytics. So, I guess it had to have been an incredible interview. Gulp.

    in the Primo interview, they said he was asked about playbook and what if scenarios on the court. I think they assessed his basketball IQ that way. maybe they were blown away by his answers.

    As far as workouts go, i recall reading that what catapulted Kobe to be a lottery pick was his workouts and how he dismantled other players in 1v1 (or 3v3) settings. Maybe Primo did that great. Don’t hear what I’m saying… I’m not saying he’s Kobe, but just an insight on how a player could impress outside of college output.

  17. #492
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    in the Primo interview, they said he was asked about playbook and what if scenarios on the court. I think they assessed his basketball IQ that way. maybe they were blown away by his answers.

    As far as workouts go, i recall reading that what catapulted Kobe to be a lottery pick was his workouts and how he dismantled other players in 1v1 (or 3v3) settings. Maybe Primo did that great. Don’t hear what I’m saying… I’m not saying he’s Kobe, but just an insight on how a player could impress outside of college output.
    Sure. I want him to succeed. And BBIQ is a good point you bring up. I hadn’t thought of that, mostly because Wright keeps mentioning character and that’s one aspect I take him at face value. I think they see a guy that screams winner/no headaches, and I’m ok with that. But I still think it was poor asset management. Houston traded 2 1sts for #16. I get a feeling that deals could have been made, but it didn’t fit their priorities. So I guess I’m questioning what I am guessing to be their priority vs asset management. Hey, I’m happy to be wrong.

  18. #493
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Iím also warming up on these two, after the initial shock. I literally turned my ST off over the weekend to just let it sink in . I keep on saying, nobody believed Pop traded his favorite kid for this Kawhi. Well, Iím hoping Primo will be the next best thing everybody will be talking about in the next few years, how the Spurs have done it again

    Go Spurs Go!
    Last edited by John B; 08-02-2021 at 01:49 PM.

  19. #494
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    The analytics approach is not the best one to evaluate such a young guy. It doesn‘t take into account his low usage. The younger the player the more you have to watch him the get the whole picture.
    Good point. I am looking forward to summer league. I couldn't find the combine scrimmages online. I think NBA may have taken the links down so all that's out there is really short snippets of like 30 seconds from that game. Interesting to read all these draft post mortem stuff while we wait for SL and FA.

  20. #495
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    in the Primo interview, they said he was asked about playbook and what if scenarios on the court. I think they assessed his basketball IQ that way. maybe they were blown away by his answers.

    As far as workouts go, i recall reading that what catapulted Kobe to be a lottery pick was his workouts and how he dismantled other players in 1v1 (or 3v3) settings. Maybe Primo did that great. Donít hear what Iím sayingÖ Iím not saying heís Kobe, but just an insight on how a player could impress outside of college output.
    Yeah we never saw the private workouts, and frankly I couldn't even find the combine scrimmages after the draft. Summer league is where I'll get to see him for the first time (other than some college highlights that Wright already said don't reflect his true ability). The rest is entertaining stuff to read about the see how it will age eventually. None of these picks can be graded until like 3 years down the line, in some cases later, but at least we'd know by then the trajectories different guys are taking. This is a subject that's interesting to me on its own.

  21. #496
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    Right, analytics takes a lot of games to get an accurate picture and he hasn't played enough games to do that. I'm sure that Joshua Primo will be an NBA player as every player that the Spurs have drafted in the 1st round and actually put in their system has made it except Livio Jean Charles and James Anderson. Spurs have had good results in turning first round draft picks into NBA players. Now, how good and will he be worth a lottery pick? Only time will tell, but it appears that the Spurs had him higher than everyone else, including one coach in the SEC who said he wasn't the 20th best player in the SEC.

  22. #497
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    The over hype hes getting on here is getting ridiculous

  23. #498
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Yeah we never saw the private workouts, and frankly I couldn't even find the combine scrimmages after the draft. Summer league is where I'll get to see him for the first time (other than some college highlights that Wright already said don't reflect his true ability). The rest is entertaining stuff to read about the see how it will age eventually. None of these picks can be graded until like 3 years down the line, in some cases later, but at least we'd know by then the trajectories different guys are taking. This is a subject that's interesting to me on its own.
    i posted the video to the full scrimmage in this thread. Would dig it up but im too busy right now

  24. #499
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    i posted the video to the full scrimmage in this thread. Would dig it up but im too busy right now
    Ok thanks. Will see if I can find it.

  25. #500
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    A Toronto kid and a Demar fan. He said he would love to meet Demar and play with him. Hereís Demar re-signing back

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