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  1. #51
    Starter off the bench Uriel's Avatar
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    Or... they didn't expect Sengun to fall and when he did, they froze and simply went with their plan to reach for Primo.
    Wright mentioned specifically in the post-draft interview that they felt that Primo was the highest upside player available.

  2. #52
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    Great, we spent a lottery pick to bring in the second coming of Bryn ing Forbes.
    Note that I called it first.

    https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/sho...1#post10565233

    So, basically Gregg used a 12th overall pick on the next Brent Formes. SMH.
    https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/sho...1#post10565275

    Welp. If this dude plays bad defense at the NBA level like Formes, we don't know yet.
    He doesn't seem to have been exposed at college.

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...a-primo-1.html
    The only solace I have is that this is still somewhat speculative.

  3. #53
    OG Spurs fan TheChillFactor's Avatar
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    Walker, Samanic, and Vassell have been pretty underwhelming picks to say the least as of late. Only Keldon Johnson has shown anything among the recent picks.
    You don't like Walker or Vassell? lol

    In general I agree with what you're saying here. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the people who get paid to do this but the evidence is really stacking up:

    The botched nephew trade
    The reach for Samanic
    The inability to make any move... ever (DDR trade?)
    The Bertans fiasco
    Their inability to make any moves AGAIN (DDR S&T)
    The Primo reach

    Now we, the loud mouths, get to watch the team develop a guy most experts say has the ceiling of "an NBA starter" for the next few years while DDR walks for nothing and we throw all of our cap space (probably close to the max) at some 7 foot overrated European (justification will be they wanted to make sure Chicago didn't match). Hey, but at least our young guys will get to finally develop with DDR gone and this kid in Austin for a guaranteed two years.

    Time to call a spade a spade. This team has drafted/developed a group of high floor, low ceiling talent. At best we have a couple fringe Allstars down the line and guys who are good #2 options with no premier player. But don't worry, I'm sure with our track record of bringing in those players in free agency the FO is confident they'll be lining up to join this squad...

    Bottom line, we needed a home run and they settled for a base hit.
    they aren't done quite yet. they have the most flexibility they have ever had. let's see how the rest of the summer goes in terms of free agency and trades.

    i don't really gaf what draftcentral.net or whatever says.

    these "draft experts" are ing astrologists - there's no way to know which 18 year old kid is going to be TMac.

  4. #54
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Or... they didn't expect Sengun to fall and when he did, they froze and simply went with their plan to reach for Primo.
    Unless they promised Primo they'd take him, it doesn't make sense to think a guy falling to them would freeze them up. Sengun wasn't a huge surprise. If the Spurs legit did like him more than Primo, they'd've taken him.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the reason why teams like OKC, NYK and WSH seemed to just piss away their picks is because they only saw so many decent prospects and didn't think any where there after the lottery. If that's true, it's possible that some of them agreed with SA that Primo was the last truly interesting prospect there and just went with that.

  5. #55
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    .
    Last edited by XDT76; 07-30-2021 at 09:26 AM.

  6. #56
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Wright mentioned specifically in the post-draft interview that they felt that Primo was the highest upside player available.
    Of course he's going to say that.

  7. #57
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Unless they promised Primo they'd take him, it doesn't make sense to think a guy falling to them would freeze them up. Sengun wasn't a huge surprise. If the Spurs legit did like him more than Primo, they'd've taken him.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the reason why teams like OKC, NYK and WSH seemed to just piss away their picks is because they only saw so many decent prospects and didn't think any where there after the lottery. If that's true, it's possible that some of them agreed with SA that Primo was the last truly interesting prospect there and just went with that.
    No, Primo was clearly very surprised when he was picked.

    Dude, you get five minutes on the clock. Teams up all the time and if they valued Primo over Sengun, fine, but they did have a short period of time after Charlotte didn't pick the Turk to decide. It's a little dull to think the question wasn't there for them. Maybe they didn't value Sengun, which is fine. Doesn't mean it wasn't a massive mistake. Doesn't mean they weren't asking themselves the question and then just hit the button for what they had built in.

  8. #58
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    If the Spurs liked Sengun more than Primo, they simply would have drafted him at #12. The fact that they chose Primo over Sengun means that they think he will be a better player.
    The problem with that is that it is a public illustration that the Spurs have lost their marbles at player evaluation. We have 2 players separated by all of 6 months in age. One of them, playing in a good professional men's league, played big minutes, put up 19 & 9 per game and came away with the MVP, while pulling his squad into the playoffs. The other one was in the NCAA, putting up 8 per game.... and got benched in the post season in favor of Keon Ellis (Who?). Heck, Sengun put up better assists and a better A/TO ratio. We picked the guy who projects as a worse player, no matter how you cut it.

  9. #59
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    No, Primo was clearly very surprised when he was picked.

    Dude, you get five minutes on the clock. Teams up all the time and if they valued Primo over Sengun, fine, but they did have a short period of time after Charlotte didn't pick the Turk to decide. It's a little dull to think the question wasn't there for them. Maybe they didn't value Sengun, which is fine. Doesn't mean it wasn't a massive mistake. Doesn't mean they weren't asking themselves the question and then just hit the button for what they had built in.
    That's not the way drafting works. The Spurs have a board, and they basically go with the highest player on their board that is available. If Sengun was higher on the board, they would've gone with him. There's no reason to believe they'd be stunned for five whole minutes and then mistakenly turn in the wrong card or whatever. They knew how they felt about all of these players long before the draft. That doesn't mean they're not wrong, but your explanation doesn't hold water. They purposefully and knowingly took Primo over Sengun and would've done so if they'd had another week to think about it. That's the point of setting up a scouting department -- to do the work well in advance and not having to decide on the fly like this was 2K.
    Last edited by Chinook; 07-30-2021 at 09:27 AM.

  10. #60
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    You don't like Walker or Vassell? lol
    You liked what you saw out of Walker this year?

  11. #61
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    at the end of the day they are professionals who have demonstrated an outstanding ability to draft and develop players.

    and we are the loudmouths on a message board that don't know repeating what "Draft Central Express" writes or some other bull that makes us feel good

    This is totally off course. Since the days of Parker and Manu all the Spurs drafts are sort of what they are. Nothing outstanding. This FO is an absolute FARCE as they held onto Veterans and got nothing for them and are stuck in mediocrity. Free agents avoid SAS. Then this piece of total garbage last night - NON DEFENDABLE on any level.

  12. #62
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    Chill guys look on the bright side, maybe FO had agreed deals with Gay, Dieng, Diop, Lyles and DDR that's why we go for a guard.

  13. #63
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    The problem with that is that it is a public illustration that the Spurs have lost their marbles at player evaluation. We have 2 players separated by all of 6 months in age. One of the, playing in a good professional men's league, played big minutes, put up 19 & 9 per game and came away with the MVP, while pulling his squad into the playoffs. The other one was in the NCAA, putting up 8 per game.... and got benched in the post season in favor of Keon Ellis (Who?). Heck, Sengun put up better assists and a better A/TO ratio. We picked the guy who projects as a worse player, no matter how you cut it.
    So obviously, looking at it as a matter of age and production is really reductive. Development is a much more complicated process than that, and the Spurs may well have looked at how they calculated it and thought that Primo will be the better player. That can be because of where he is on the development curve, what is floor is, how easy it'd be to get him on the floor, how willing he was to be coach, what parts of his game would be translated, etc. I certainly would feel more excited right now had the Spurs drafted Sengun, but I also can imagine him disappointing in the NBA given his current skill-set. If Primo's floor is a bigger Bryn Forbes with better defense, that's not really that bad.

  14. #64
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    Wright mentioned specifically in the post-draft interview that they felt that Primo was the highest upside player available.
    What a pant load. If they’re content to go out on a ridiculous limb they should have drafted that athletic kid from Texas who was doing flips on the court. Wright needs to go. I’d rather have drinks with Pop than sit next to Wright for 2 minutes.

  15. #65
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    That's not the way drafting works. The Spurs have a board, and they basically go with the highest player on their board that is available. If Sengun was higher on the board, they would've gone with him. There's no reason to believe they'd be stunned for five whole minutes and then mistakenly turn in the wrong card or whatever. They knew how they felt about all of these players long before the draft. That doesn't mean they're not wrong, but your explanation doesn't hold water. They purposefully and knowingly took Primo over Sengun and would've done so if they'd had another week to think about it. That's the point of setting up a scouting department -- to do the work well in advance and not having to decide on the fly like this was 2K.
    It's entirely reasonable to believe this is how it worked. FOs totally flub things in the trenches. It happens.

    It's also entirely reasonable to believe they didn't value Sengun, which is also a detriment.

  16. #66
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    I'm with the Spurs as it relates to Sengun, i don't see any upside in the NBA world, i saw him against our National team which is garbage without Giannis and he has major issues defensively due to being a twinner, very slow for his size. His skill set is very good to excellent for European bball where you can be the most unathletic player and still survive but not for the NBA. If he was Jokic size then it would've been different. I hope they made the right decision with Primo though because i don't know if the other options were better but i know sengun very well, i watch Euroleague a lot and he can be great there but i don't see it in the NBA.

  17. #67
    Starter off the bench Uriel's Avatar
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    The problem with that is that it is a public illustration that the Spurs have lost their marbles at player evaluation. We have 2 players separated by all of 6 months in age. One of them, playing in a good professional men's league, played big minutes, put up 19 & 9 per game and came away with the MVP, while pulling his squad into the playoffs. The other one was in the NCAA, putting up 8 per game.... and got benched in the post season in favor of Keon Ellis (Who?). Heck, Sengun put up better assists and a better A/TO ratio. We picked the guy who projects as a worse player, no matter how you cut it.
    I don't disagree with that. Sengun was my pick too.

    But the Spurs had both Sengun and Primo in for private workouts, so clearly they've seen something that we haven't.

  18. #68
    Starter off the bench Uriel's Avatar
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    On another note, I love how this year's annual SpursTalk post-draft meltdown is even bigger than anticipated

    A lot of us foresaw that this was going to happen, but few of us would have guessed that it would've been on this scale, lasting until even the day after the draft

  19. #69
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    Primo's mom came to me in a dream last night and told me her son will bring the city multiple les. I'm sold on this pick.

  20. #70
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    It's entirely reasonable to believe this is how it worked. FOs totally flub things in the trenches. It happens.

    It's also entirely reasonable to believe they didn't value Sengun, which is also a detriment.
    No, it's not reasonable. The Spurs had a whole year to decide how much they wanted Sengun. They didn't need five minutes to think about it. It's really weird that you keep trying to push that point. Legit, there are only two ways this could've worked like you're suggesting: Either the Spurs made a promise to Primo thinking Sengun wouldn't be around and then decided not to break their promise when they were wrong; or the Spurs drafted Primo thinking he'd be part of a trade, and that trade either got botched or has yet to occur because it also involves something like a S&T. Outside of those two fringe cir stances, the Spurs would just go with their board, as any other team would do. It's possible something happened that caused the Spurs to go against their evaluation to draft Primo over Sengun, but we aren't talking like 50-50 chances here. We're talking like 95-5 that they just like Primo more, though if Primo is dealt in a week or so, that would change the ratio.

  21. #71
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Duarte, moody and kispert were also available. So they would all have to be busts as well. ...

    Good point. Yeah, it’ll take a lot of busting for the Spurs to look good here.

    In the meantime, a scenario for reading entertainment.

    Wright revealed in a tweet that he was calling around to try to trade down, or get additional picks, or whatever. But in doing so, he talked too much. He revealed how high the Spurs were on Primo, but they wanted a lower pick to take him. They didn’t feel they could take him at 12. But they really really liked him.

    Houston heard about it. As did OKC. As Wright struck out in his attempts to deal.

    Houston — and OKC? — then started a targeted rumor, targeted at the Spurs, that it was a done deal Primo would go at 17. They made sure the Spurs heard that. (The intention was to make the Spurs jump the gun and take Primo at 12, leaving the higher ranked prospects on the board. There was no actual intention to take Primo at 17.)

    It worked. Thinking he had no chance to get Primo otherwise, Wright took him at 12.

    That left Sengun etc. on the board, and opened the opportunity for Houston to take Sengun at 17, with the OKC pick. Which they did.

    Wright said in another tweet that intel can be different from mock drafts. It doesn’t appear he mentioned that intel can include disinformation designed to manipulate.

    Just a little story of course. That’s all.

    Wright couldn’t be such a gullible twit that he would be influenced by a targeted rumor. Could he?

    You decide.

    Meandering thoughts on a quiet morning...

  22. #72
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Great write-up Timvp. As mentioned, you were not bad at predicting at picks 25th and 37th. That’s were I put Primo, and not at 12th. His slow-burst concerns me, unless he develops a strong body like Harden who can plow through his defenders, because the kid has good-size and great strokes, even a long-range at that. Completely agree with you, PATFO seem to have used the same selecting process as if they’re selecting from the late 1st round, which they did for almost 20 years, a Project. Nobody selects a Project at 12th.

    All Spurs fans are on the edge of their seats what “franchise altering” deals the PATFO has stored in the following weeks. Personally, I expect no less than Collins or Simmons as that’s the positional need, which they could’ve addressed with Sengun or Jalen Johnson. Man, I’m still a bit furious with the thought of having a chance at Jalen. He would’ve been a 20 million dollars cheaper than Collins or Simmons and still have plenty left to surround him .

    Still, I will give the PATFO the benefit of the doubt, that they know what they’re doing, and wait the rest of the Summer to grade this off-season. Because Brian Wright has been underwhelming me. I’m not sure that he should be the one taking the helm. I’m sure Pop and RC have a hands on it. I want a Presti, someone savvy who can make great deals. So far Wright is underwhelming… but I’ll wait until I pass judgement.

    The kid is great (somehow reminds me of Slow Mo though), better shooter but not as good a passer, again not at 12.
    Last edited by John B; 07-30-2021 at 09:54 AM.

  23. #73
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    Wright mentioned specifically in the post-draft interview that they felt that Primo was the highest upside player available.
    What else is he going to say? "I didn't take who we thought was best, but he's a real nice guy?"

  24. #74
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    On another note, I love how this year's annual SpursTalk post-draft meltdown is even bigger than anticipated

    A lot of us foresaw that this was going to happen, but few of us would have guessed that it would've been on this scale, lasting until even the day after the draft
    I thought they were going to draft Trey Murphy or something.

  25. #75
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    No, it's not reasonable. The Spurs had a whole year to decide how much they wanted Sengun. They didn't need five minutes to think about it. It's really weird that you keep trying to push that point. Legit, there are only two ways this could've worked like you're suggesting: Either the Spurs made a promise to Primo thinking Sengun wouldn't be around and then decided not to break their promise when they were wrong; or the Spurs drafted Primo thinking he'd be part of a trade, and that trade either got botched or has yet to occur because it also involves something like a S&T. Outside of those two fringe cir stances, the Spurs would just go with their board, as any other team would do. It's possible something happened that caused the Spurs to go against their evaluation to draft Primo over Sengun, but we aren't talking like 50-50 chances here. We're talking like 95-5 that they just like Primo more, though if Primo is dealt in a week or so, that would change the ratio.
    I don't think you're making the point you think you are. You're basically saying "They liked Primo." That's pretty obvious, since they picked him.

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