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  1. #476
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    ^ Can't find it now but article quoted Primo saying he has benefitted from GL.

    How much and how often to send him down now, well let's just hope it's not another screw up by Grandpa.

  2. #477
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Primo looks really nice. He has good instincts, doesn't second guess himself, and higher end skills forming. Youngest guy in the NBA, right? I wish he was a bit quicker, but he's much bigger than I expected and has already improved his sloppy handles.

    I have no issue with G-League time. This team is headed for the lottery and Primo is on a longer-term development track.

  3. #478
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    Primo looks really nice. He has good instincts, doesn't second guess himself, and higher end skills forming. Youngest guy in the NBA, right? I wish he was a bit quicker, but he's much bigger than I expected and has already improved his sloppy handles.

    I have no issue with G-League time. This team is headed for the lottery and Primo is on a longer-term development track.

    Yeah, I don't want to get too optimistic, but he definitely looks like he has the highest ceiling on our roster.
    Everything he does is fluid and natural. I'm especially impressed with his passing style. In a couple of years he'll be by far the best passer on the roster.

    And he shouldn't go back to the G-league.
    He's already better than Forbes and Tre on both ends of the floor.
    So what if he makes some mistakes? It's not like those two will help us win games. And it's not like we're coming close to .500 record.
    Since Devin is used mostly as SF and Pop even uses Lonnie as SF in some lineups, Primo should be the third perimeter guy coming off the bench. No excuses.

    10mpg with the big boys is worth more than 35 in G-league.

  4. #479
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    Is there some reason a player can't learn how to play while in the NBA? How in the world have players been doing it for years without G League... I guess Pop will never know.

  5. #480
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't want to get too optimistic, but he definitely looks like he has the highest ceiling on our roster.
    Everything he does is fluid and natural. I'm especially impressed with his passing style. In a couple of years he'll be by far the best passer on the roster.

    And he shouldn't go back to the G-league.
    He's already better than Forbes and Tre on both ends of the floor.
    So what if he makes some mistakes? It's not like those two will help us win games. And it's not like we're coming close to .500 record.
    Since Devin is used mostly as SF and Pop even uses Lonnie as SF in some lineups, Primo should be the third perimeter guy coming off the bench. No excuses.

    10mpg with the big boys is worth more than 35 in G-league.
    Is there some reason a player can't learn how to play while in the NBA? How in the world have players been doing it for years without G League... I guess Pop will never know.
    Thereís a lot to be gained from g-league time. It affords him the ability to work on singular aspects of his game without sacrificing or worrying about messing with regular rotation players.

    IE they tell Primo, letís not worry about scoring we want you to concentrate on splitting a double team and kicking to a certain spot on the floor regardless if your teammate rotated correctly. Just execute your end.

    You do that on the big team and it throws your other teammates under the bus. Spurs have never tanked in the traditional way. Players are playing to win. Not watch a rookie develop.

    G league can be used to isolate training and development in players in ways you wouldnít do on the main squad.

    Plus itís easier to teach things when you can start slower and build up. There are aspects of fundamentals like dribbling etc that can really develop nicely if you start honing those skills against slower compe ion. Think of a piano or guitar player. You start at 80 beats per minute. Then 100. Then 140 and eventually you can play at full speedÖ but not just do it, you can do it cleaner and more precise because you werenít forced to work on speed or react erratically. Heís forced to work on fundamentals and the speed comes up along with that.

    Iím certain he learned from his time on the squad. Now he can work on that with zero pressure or concern for teammates. Then come up again and start applying it.

    Time is on his side.

    A good mix of g and main is perfect for his age develop cycle.

  6. #481
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Really like what i've seen from him in his increased minutes but he has a lot of room to grow. Really needs to work on his driving game. once he runs off the three point line he is almost always looking to pass it where he should be looking to break down the defense and score. though i will say he has authored some very slick passes thus far

  7. #482
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't want to get too optimistic, but he definitely looks like he has the highest ceiling on our roster.
    Everything he does is fluid and natural. I'm especially impressed with his passing style. In a couple of years he'll be by far the best passer on the roster.

    And he shouldn't go back to the G-league.
    He's already better than Forbes and Tre on both ends of the floor.
    So what if he makes some mistakes? It's not like those two will help us win games. And it's not like we're coming close to .500 record.
    Since Devin is used mostly as SF and Pop even uses Lonnie as SF in some lineups, Primo should be the third perimeter guy coming off the bench. No excuses.

    10mpg with the big boys is worth more than 35 in G-league.
    No, itís not. He is learning to be THE GUY in the gleague. His ball handling isnít up to doing that in the NBA. Heís averaging 4.7 TOs against gleague defenders. Heíd get absolutely raped in the NBA as a lead guard. You donít want him training to play off the ball if heís going to be your guy.

  8. #483
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I think way too much of this is trying to rationalize a conclusion that wasn't originally reached through rational means. Nothing is stopping Primo from playing a lot of NBA minutes now. He's not fouling out or getting winded due to how much bigger and stronger the vets are or whatever. There's no rule that states other guys have to play ahead of him other than whatever Pop says. It would be one thing if the Spurs were trying to win games, but they've made way too many decisions this season that suggest that Pop doesn't really care about that or may even not want that. The minutes are there already if Pop updates his rotation. Even a starting role would be there.

    I don't think the g-league is a place to develop good habits. If anything, the lower compe ion and lack of vet oversight means it's a place to develop bad habits that have to be scrubbed out once a player moves up to the big league. Primo, like many young players, shouldn't be learning to be "the man", because he's not going to be the man any time soon. He should be learning how to play with NBA players and pick his spots to be aggressive. Then, as his skills mature, the spots he's supposed to pick will expand and his usage will increase. He's not going to learn to defend NBA players by not playing against them. He's clearly going to be a forward in the NBA, and him running around checking d-league PGs isn't doing anything for the fears that guys will bully him. His best offensive skills, his off-ball movement and shooting off the catch -- are things that were arguably developed in college (where he was supposedly misused) and are hard to improve in a high-usage role.

    Given where the Spurs are in the standings, this should be where PATFO looks to trade away the vets and sink or swim with the young guys. They are either going to make the play-in or miss it, and whatever they do isn't going to be due to the win-now older players. They've lost too many games already to have a realistic chance at a HCA seed. Pop has to ask himself where the team's future is in, because guys like Tre Jones who MIGHT be decent rotation guards shouldn't be getting the developmental priority. The White/Murray starter pairing shouldn't be considered the backbone of the franchise. Pop's going to have to accept that a bad team doesn't become a good team by low-ceiling players improving their chemistry. There are too many low-ceiling guys walking around like core pieces right now. There's no pecking order that should be sending Primo anywhere. The Spurs are rebuilding, and they should act like it.
    Last edited by Chinook; 01-11-2022 at 11:07 PM.

  9. #484
    The Great Eight Ocotillo's Avatar
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    I dunno. I was ok with him working on stuff in the G-league but now I would like to see him on the big boy squad. Of course, my paycheck is not signed by Holt Cat so I guess that shows how much they value my opinion.

    He will be up with the main squad once the G-league is over but the only reason I kept watching the Knicks game was to see how the kid was doing.
    Last edited by Ocotillo; 01-11-2022 at 07:12 PM. Reason: typo, per usual

  10. #485
    Believe. D-Robinson 50 fan's Avatar
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    There’s a lot to be gained from g-league time. It affords him the ability to work on singular aspects of his game without sacrificing or worrying about messing with regular rotation players.

    IE they tell Primo, let’s not worry about scoring we want you to concentrate on splitting a double team and kicking to a certain spot on the floor regardless if your teammate rotated correctly. Just execute your end.

    You do that on the big team and it throws your other teammates under the bus. Spurs have never tanked in the traditional way. Players are playing to win. Not watch a rookie develop.

    G league can be used to isolate training and development in players in ways you wouldn’t do on the main squad.

    Plus it’s easier to teach things when you can start slower and build up. There are aspects of fundamentals like dribbling etc that can really develop nicely if you start honing those skills against slower compe ion. Think of a piano or guitar player. You start at 80 beats per minute. Then 100. Then 140 and eventually you can play at full speed… but not just do it, you can do it cleaner and more precise because you weren’t forced to work on speed or react erratically. He’s forced to work on fundamentals and the speed comes up along with that.

    I’m certain he learned from his time on the squad. Now he can work on that with zero pressure or concern for teammates. Then come up again and start applying it.

    Time is on his side.

    A good mix of g and main is perfect for his age develop cycle.

    exactly!

    he doesn’t have to defer as much as he would with the big team and he can really work on a lot of skills more in actual game situations playing in the G League instead of sitting in the corner waiting to shot or brining the ball up and quickly handing it off to a teammate to run the offense.

  11. #486
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    I haven't seen someone with this skillset that Primo has shown since Kawhi. I'm really excited about him, he has similar upside to that of Dj, or even higher. But the skill set and the way he plays, its crazy.

    I still do thing, that Lonnie has had the highest upside in the system, but with Lonnie, he reallies more on his physical skills than basketball skils. With Primo, he has the physical skills, but the IQ and Baseketball skills are eye popping.

  12. #487
    Veteran Chomag's Avatar
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    Ok, name how many players that have become major contributing players in the NBA after spending time developing in the G league. My money is on that sample size being rather small.

    It seems to me most evidence points to that nothing beats actual experience with the big leagues.

  13. #488
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    Does the same argument apply to mlb?

  14. #489
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Ok, name how many players that have become major contributing players in the NBA after spending time developing in the G league. My money is on that sample size being rather small.

    It seems to me most evidence points to that nothing beats actual experience with the big leagues.
    It seems to me that nothing beats the Spurs development model. It kind of is the gold standard. Theyíve taken a group of draft picks in the 28-30 range in the last decade, and turned them into NBA players whose careers span hundreds of games. Their 20s picks have a better track record that a lot of teamís lottery picks. When your season is like 50 games, thereís a lot more time for both team practices, and individual instruction.

  15. #490
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Many teams can match the Spurs track record. PatFO looks great when you have a homer view of the Spurs' picks and are critical of those from other teams.

  16. #491
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Many teams can match the Spurs track record. PatFO looks great when you have a homer view of the Spurs' picks and are critical of those from other teams.
    Name one team that has. Itís literally the only credit given to this franchise, albeit grudgingly, by the nba media. I mean, Keldon, drafted at #29, has the 9th highest WS in his class. yes, the Spurs have their duds, but that would also be a better % than other clubs.

  17. #492
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    Name one team that has. Itís literally the only credit given to this franchise, albeit grudgingly, by the nba media. I mean, Keldon, drafted at #29, has the 9th highest WS in his class. yes, the Spurs have their duds, but that would also be a better % than other clubs.
    Keldon, White, and Murray are ahead of their draft positions in terms of WS, while Samanic and Walker are behind. Vassell is almost exactly where expected, while Haliburton is #1 for that class. Primo is currently behind, albeit with a small sample size. Kind of looks like a pretty average return to me. Although admittedly, WS doesn't tell the whole story.
    Last edited by R. DeMurre; 01-12-2022 at 03:18 PM.

  18. #493
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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  19. #494
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    From an historical view of draft position, production, career longevity etc…….. it’s not even close! Spurs win!!

  20. #495
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    Start out in our system = usually an NBA career in some capacity!

  21. #496
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    BTW………Primo will be one of our best but please do not sleep on Devin.

  22. #497
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    It's such an odd concept sending a lottery pick to G league . Well unless they are rehabing or a bust...

    There is no evidence that a talented player can learn to play more in G league over the NBA. It's actually to the contrary

  23. #498
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    It's such an odd concept sending a lottery pick to G league . Well unless they are rehabing or a bust...

    There is no evidence that a talented player can learn to play more in G league over the NBA. It's actually to the contrary
    Other sports do it……. Is basketball special for development?

  24. #499
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    Many teams can match the Spurs track record. PatFO looks great when you have a homer view of the Spurs' picks and are critical of those from other teams.

    from what time period? and i think you'd have to narrow it down to front offices that have been around a while as well rather than just a franchise.

  25. #500
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    I think the statistical model used is significantly flawed.

    Some examples
    1) Consider a draft with 3 Tier 1 prospects none of whom bust and who are approximately equally productive. None of the players after Tier 1 are significantly productive... The first 2 picks are considered not to be particularly good picks (low Net Rating), as the counterfactual value is mostly generated from the 2 tier 1 prospects picked after them. The 3ed pick is considered a great pick, as there are no high productivity picks after him (thus, high Net Rating)...when it was actually just making the obvious pick.
    2) Consider the Jokic draft (2014). Toronto took a complete reach for Caboclo at 20. SAS picked Kyle Anderson at 29. Both should have obviously picked Jokic. Due to how the alpha value is calculated and how it impacts the counterfactual value SAS will have a much larger penalty on the value of Kyle Anderson from Jokic being available at 41 in comparison to the penalty that TOR sees for picking Caboclo at 20...

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