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  1. #1
    Veteran 8FOR!3's Avatar
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    I saw they wanted Wiseman, Wiggins, and 4 first rounders from GSW.

    What do ya’ll think the end game is for Philly? Do they eventually have to come back down to earth and take an offer similar to what we took for Kawhi or do they just keep Simmons? Obviously they’re trading for a different reason than we did with Kawhi but at the same time they know they need to go a different direction

    personally I wouldn’t have given up #12 yesterday for him until I saw who we took with #12 lol

  2. #2
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    It's weird how formulaic these rejections are. It's clear the Rockets are shopping Simmons and wants to see if anyone will take their high offer. That's fine. It's just weird that it keeps getting leaked. Despite what I've heard some folks say, this doesn't help Houston much at all. One narrow rejected high offer can cause a bidding war. Three or four absurd offers just discourages inquiry.

    The Spurs were justified in asking for a bona fide foundational asset for Kawhi. The Kings should've given up their pick. The Sixers should've given up Simmons. People talked themselves into the "value" game too much and ended up passing on a le chance. Simmons is a very good player and worth "coming correct" for. But he's not worth going all in behind, because he's not going to be that guy by himself.

  3. #3
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    I think Portland makes the most sense. Mcoullum and covington plus two picks. Then sixers pay for Lowly.

  4. #4
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    With Simmons basically willing to just sit out the season at this point, it's going to be interesting to see how much his price comes down. The Philly FO is going to make the same mistake the Spurs made with Kawhi. They might end up having to do a fire sale just to salvage something when all is said and done because they waited too long to pull the trigger on a trade.

    The Spurs have some assets to trade now. Chip might be able to fix Simmons' shot. Just sayin'....

  5. #5
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I can't think of a bigger mistake the Spurs could make right now than trade for Ben Simmons.

  6. #6
    Spurs forever DeRozan m8's Avatar
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    That prima donna would pout and probably pull a nephew, if he landed in SA

  7. #7
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    I can't think of a bigger mistake the Spurs could make right now than trade for Ben Simmons.
    Agreed. I just hear the chatter about his stock plummeting and wonder how far it will go. Someone might get a bargain. We’ll see. I’m done with the prima donnas and I’m sure our FO is as well.

  8. #8
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  9. #9
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    Best bet on Simmons front is to continue to wait out Philly until that situation deteriorates further (ala Kawhi). Unless Simmons does a 180 and decides to mends fences, we're probably looking at the height of Philly's leverage point right now. No need to engage them until Philly's training camp in about to start/has started.

    And, if Philly's outlandish offer is meant to anchor their negotiations, Spurs should anchors theirs at Murray, Lonnie, Aminu. Work on narrowing differences from there.

  10. #10
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Unlike the Sixers, I don't think the Spurs have any interest in going into camp with this situation unresolved (from their side at least). They wouldn't make White or Murray especially face the media with so much uncertainty over his life, and I don't think they'd waste the time of vets like Young or Aminu by having them fly down, get set up for camp only to be traded a bit later. Who knows if the Spurs are really interested, but if they are among the most aggressive suitors, then they likely have a point after which they'd just go into the season and revisit things after 12/15, when McDermott/Collins can be part of trades and SA has a better sense of their season's prospects.

  11. #11
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Unlike the Sixers, I don't think the Spurs have any interest in going into camp with this situation unresolved (from their side at least). They wouldn't make White or Murray especially face the media with so much uncertainty over his life, and I don't think they'd waste the time of vets like Young or Aminu by having them fly down, get set up for camp only to be traded a bit later. Who knows if the Spurs are really interested, but if they are among the most aggressive suitors, then they likely have a point after which they'd just go into the season and revisit things after 12/15, when McDermott/Collins can be part of trades and SA has a better sense of their season's prospects.
    Agree. Sixers should also avoid that negative Harden-like situation at the start of a new season. Allow Murray/Lonnie to acclimate with the team. I know Murray would be a beast playing with a chip, and is really a good fit for Sixers. He delivers almost the same assists, defense and now shooting. For Spurs side, Simmons has Superstar ceiling that Murray doesn’t have. If Chip can fix Simmons’ shooting confidence, because his mechanics are not bad but more in his head, to high 30’s in 3pt, high 70’s in FT, continue his dominance in the paint and finding guys, Simmons will be MVP candidate. The mechanics is there. Simmons needs to be the focal point. There’s just so much potential there. Spurs need to iron out the difference.

  12. #12
    Get Paycheck, Get Drunk HankChinaski's Avatar
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    Simmons need to have wave after wave of CDs playing subliminal messages reinforcing positive thinking.

    Maybe after 6 months straight of this he can get his head out his ass.

    He is a self en led narcissist (The Bad Kind that is INSECURE).

    Spurs shouldn't even waste time on someone like that.

    Guy like that either sorts his anxieties on the court with putting a ball into a basket or he doesn't.

    Chip isn't going to fix that unless he gets down on his hands and knees with a few blowees to make him think he is improving.

  13. #13
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    The Kings supposedly don't have enough, but the Spurs supposedly might doesn't make sense when they could offer a comparable package.

    The Trail Blazers are indirectly in control of this process. They either find a way to make a move of significance by the trade deadline to keep Lillard engaged or they don't, he probably requests a trade and Simmons++ is the obvious one.

    It's unclear whether they're fans of his or not, but I get the sense they'd be uninterested in a re-build and he'd fit fairly well with their remaining core. Either way, I can't imagine them preferring the Spurs package.

  14. #14
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Just like with Kawhi, the issue isn't that teams don't "have" enough. Almost every team has enough for any player who's likely to be moved. It's whether they're willing to give up enough. Sacramento doesn't have enough if they're protecting Fox and Haliburton and aren't okay with like seven firsts. Minny basically just traded their non- Edwards/KAT/Russell pieces for Beverly and might literally not be able to make a trade. Toronto has the assets, but they probably don't want him with Siakam, OG and Barnes already at the forwards. My guess is the Spurs are in a similar position, though hopefully they're sane enough to not try to keep both Murray and White while adding Simmons. It'd require them to give up too many assets for diminishing returns. It's very possible that White/Murray is the best player a team is legitimately offering at this point. As Spurs fans, we know all about teams trying to withhold even B-level assets because they've convinced themselves they have leverage. The Sixers were balking at including Dario ing Saric in a Leonard trade.

  15. #15
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    The Sixers were balking at including Dario ing Saric in a Leonard trade.

    Really? That's just a rumor. No way they're that stupid. I think more likely Spurs insisted in including Simmons.

  16. #16
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    Just like with Kawhi, the issue isn't that teams don't "have" enough. Almost every team has enough for any player who's likely to be moved. It's whether they're willing to give up enough. Sacramento doesn't have enough if they're protecting Fox and Haliburton and aren't okay with like seven firsts. Minny basically just traded their non- Edwards/KAT/Russell pieces for Beverly and might literally not be able to make a trade. Toronto has the assets, but they probably don't want him with Siakam, OG and Barnes already at the forwards. My guess is the Spurs are in a similar position, though hopefully they're sane enough to not try to keep both Murray and White while adding Simmons. It'd require them to give up too many assets for diminishing returns. It's very possible that White/Murray is the best player a team is legitimately offering at this point. As Spurs fans, we know all about teams trying to withhold even B-level assets because they've convinced themselves they have leverage. The Sixers were balking at including Dario ing Saric in a Leonard trade.
    Not to shoot the messanger, but the Kings would have to know that Haliburton is the only non Fox asset who could conceivably headline their package and they should be okay with including him given the amount of PG depth/ball handling/play making they'd have.

    But good post . . . unlike the Harris one, which I was contractually obligated to summarily dismiss.

  17. #17
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    The Sixers were balking at including Dario ing Saric in a Leonard trade.
    LOL that they wouldn't move Fultz for Leonard. The same Fultz they traded for Jonathan Simmons a few months later.

  18. #18
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Not to shoot the messanger, but the Kings would have to know that Haliburton is the only non Fox asset who could conceivably headline their package and they should be okay with including him given the amount of PG depth/ball handling/play making they'd have
    If you ask RGMers, they actually think Fox is more likely to be moved for Simmons than Haliburton. Who knows what their FO thinks, but they could be pushing Barnes/Hield, Mitc , Bagley and picks. Whether than offer is compe ive with what is actually being laid out by interested teams, we don't know.

    But good post . . . unlike the Harris one, which I was contractually obligated to summarily dismiss.
    So... If the Sixers are willing to move Harris, they are likely trying to use his salary as ballast to bring in a star or whatever. Even if the Spurs aren't providing an upgrade, they are able to provide the expiring contracts in order to prevent a third team from having to take Harris.

    Like say they were going to go all-in on Jamal Murray (not actually the worst idea if they are going to keep Simmons/Embiid). Denver definitely doesn't want to come back in that deal, as most of the motivation for trading Murray would be to free up money for MPJ. So the Spurs being able to turn Harris into expiring contracts has value to both teams, even though the Spurs' offer I gave wouldn't be what Philly wanted one-on-one. Repeat the same idea with Sacramento and Hield/Barnes. There are a few trades where the other team probably wants or will be forced to take Harris on his contract like Portland (McCollum). But insofar as he's moveable, it'll likely be that they sell him or use him as ballast in a huge trade with a club that would probably prefer he not come back in the deal. SA is one of the few teams where Harris on his contract would actually make sense.

  19. #19
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    If you ask RGMers, they actually think Fox is more likely to be moved for Simmons than Haliburton. Who knows what their FO thinks, but they could be pushing Barnes/Hield, Mitc , Bagley and picks. Whether than offer is compe ive with what is actually being laid out by interested teams, we don't know.



    So... If the Sixers are willing to move Harris, they are likely trying to use his salary as ballast to bring in a star or whatever. Even if the Spurs aren't providing an upgrade, they are able to provide the expiring contracts in order to prevent a third team from having to take Harris.

    Like say they were going to go all-in on Jamal Murray (not actually the worst idea if they are going to keep Simmons/Embiid). Denver definitely doesn't want to come back in that deal, as most of the motivation for trading Murray would be to free up money for MPJ. So the Spurs being able to turn Harris into expiring contracts has value to both teams, even though the Spurs' offer I gave wouldn't be what Philly wanted one-on-one. Repeat the same idea with Sacramento and Hield/Barnes. There are a few trades where the other team probably wants or will be forced to take Harris on his contract like Portland (McCollum). But insofar as he's moveable, it'll likely be that they sell him or use him as ballast in a huge trade with a club that would probably prefer he not come back in the deal. SA is one of the few teams where Harris on his contract would actually make sense.
    Philly can shove Tobias Harris contract right up their asses. I want no part of year 3, when he’s 32, and making $40M. That’s All NBA money for a guy who is a starter level player, below All Star level. No one wants to keep this guy. He’s been traded 4 times in 10 years, and left teams multiple times on his own.

  20. #20
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    With the 76ers exhaust the Lillard situation first caveat . . .

    To 76ers: Dragic, Murray, Spurs '22 and '24 1sts (top 1 protected), Bulls '25 1st and 2nd (via Spurs)

    To Suns: Young

    To Spurs: Simmons, Boucher, Suns '23 1st (top 20 protected)

    To Raptors: Poeltl, Saric, Smith, Milton

  21. #21
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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  22. #22
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    With the 76ers exhaust the Lillard situation first caveat . . .

    To 76ers: Dragic, Murray, Spurs '22 and '24 1sts (top 1 protected), Bulls '25 1st and 2nd (via Spurs)

    To Suns: Young

    To Spurs: Simmons, Boucher, Suns '23 1st (top 20 protected)

    To Raptors: Poeltl, Saric, Smith, Milton
    The Suns cannot trade their 2023 first, because their 2022 first is outstanding (to OKC though, not to Brooklyn -- it was part of the Paul trade). It would have to be a protected 2024 first that may not be eligible to convey until 2027 (though might convey as early as 2024 if everything goes as expected).

    I'm not as huge of a fan of the Poeltl/Boucher trade as some are, but I guess if you consider Milton as the payment for Dragic, then eating Smith and getting Poeltl for just Boucher is enough for Toronto to eat Saric. I'd still wonder if trading Walker, Vassell or Primo could give the Spurs back some of those picks, like Dragic, Murray, Vassell, the 22 unprotected first and the Suns pick

  23. #23
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    The Suns cannot trade their 2023 first, because their 2022 first is outstanding (to OKC though, not to Brooklyn -- it was part of the Paul trade). It would have to be a protected 2024 first that may not be eligible to convey until 2027 (though might convey as early as 2024 if everything goes as expected).

    I'm not as huge of a fan of the Poeltl/Boucher trade as some are, but I guess if you consider Milton as the payment for Dragic, then eating Smith and getting Poeltl for just Boucher is enough for Toronto to eat Saric. I'd still wonder if trading Walker, Vassell or Primo could give the Spurs back some of those picks, like Dragic, Murray, Vassell, the 22 unprotected first and the Suns pick
    I mentioned that in the free agency thread, then somehow made the mistake anyway. I don't think that changes anything though.

    If the Spurs are as good at drafting and developing as many including presumably they believe they are, then they should be able to withstand the loss of picks (and if the Suns '24 1st conveys, they'd only be without a 1st in '22).

    If we're still pretending White is young, Simmons is 2 years younger, so add them to Johnson, Vassell, Walker IV, Samanic, Jones, Primo and Collins and there'd still be a lot of youth in place.

  24. #24
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    The Sixers were balking at including Dario ing Saric in a Leonard trade.

    Really? That's just a rumor. No way they're that stupid. I think more likely Spurs insisted in including Simmons.
    Spurs positively insisted on Simmons. They also insisted on Jaylen Brown, when Celtics were offering Marcus Smart and picks.

  25. #25
    The Journey Is The Reward rudwick's Avatar
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    We don’t need him.

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