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  1. #126
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    For the bibliography, I’ll add the Zac Collins thread as a reference to this post.

    ST.com is like any other website - filled with regular people who possess an over-inflated sense of the value of their own opinions. At least it’s not Twitter.
    What’s ironic here is that DPG complains about ST not recognizing the talent of the current roster in other threads but in his post here he’s leaning on the same crowd for their opinion on Primo. Which is it, man?

  2. #127
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Well, the Spurs FO saw it - and their track record certainly holds more weight than the talent evaluators of ST.com. Yes, this is certainly “sniffer” mentality, but I still believe the Spurs track record of talent identification, evaluation, and development earns them some benefit of the doubt. Until they start blowing pick after pick for years on end, or there is a wholesale change in the FO, they’ll have that benefit of the doubt.
    You know me - Im very much team FO on most things other than last 4-5 years; but I’ve always said they are amazing drafters even in that period. Im saying, even with the usual “sniffer” mentality here quote unquote, that more than usual were dismayed at the pick and didn’t see upside..

    Putting ST aside though and just looking at “expert” opinions only? There was not a lot that thought or argued about his high upside. He was a meh prospect and very limited due to athletic profile on his upside and I just think its a bit revisionist to justify the pick (there are plenty of reasons to sort of justify it otherwise big picture) due to “upside”

  3. #128
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    What’s ironic here is that DPG complains about ST not recognizing the talent of the current roster in other threads but in his post here he’s leaning on the same crowd for their opinion on Primo. Which is it, man?
    Lol - so because something in general is true (ST not valuing our guys overall) means EVERYTHING is wrong? Thats how children think tbh….and, if you read what I wrote, I very intentionally mentioned OUTSIDE of ST as well; as in mock drafts and write ups about Primo (whether it was TIMVP or the usual main draft guru sites)

  4. #129
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Like Luka was an “upside” pick. His ceiling/archetype was very valuable but we knew there was bust potential. But his athletic profile etc made it a very risky boom or bust style pick. I dont think Primo was widely viewed like that. He didnt have that upside narrative outside of age; but it was not about his athleticism and overall upside more about his versatility and shooting translating and flashing some ability to handle PG abilities in a pinch.

  5. #130
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Lol - so because something in general is true (ST not valuing our guys overall) means EVERYTHING is wrong? Thats how children think tbh….and, if you read what I wrote, I very intentionally mentioned OUTSIDE of ST as well; as in mock drafts and write ups about Primo (whether it was TIMVP or the usual main draft guru sites)
    No, I was pointing out an inconsistency in your views in an attempt to make you re-think your position. It’s what adults do when they engage in discussion. My apologies, I thought I was talking to one.

  6. #131
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    No, I was pointing out an inconsistency in your views in an attempt to make you re-think your position. It’s what adults do when they engage in discussion. My apologies, I thought I was talking to one.
    What is there to rethink? I didnt think he had upside when he was drafted. Spurs thinking that doesnt change my mind and what did he show that would have? We have the data now. It’s not inconsistency - it was one of the few times where even the usual sniffers were like meh on him. Thats not contracting my position at all that a lot of the time people here sh*t on Spurs youth. It aligns with it since they thought he sucked too lol

  7. #132
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Also you need to chill IMVHO. You come off as emotionally unstable. You jumped in on a comment to someone else all aggressive & when I didn’t see it your way you immediately jump to “I thought this was an adult conversation” . Like what?

    Was I rude to you? Did I scream and yell? Does your logic work in reverse (since you didn’t change your opinion based on what I said are you no longer an adult?)

    It’s a difference of opinion and it’s going to happen again. Might as well learn to chill about it

  8. #133
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    If anything, the masses here generally overrate Spurs youth which is typical in sports where the majority are myopic and biased.

  9. #134
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Also you need to chill IMVHO. You come off as emotionally unstable. You jumped in on a comment to someone else all aggressive & when I didn’t see it your way you immediately jump to “I thought this was an adult conversation” . Like what?

    Was I rude to you? Did I scream and yell? Does your logic work in reverse (since you didn’t change your opinion based on what I said are you no longer an adult?)

    It’s a difference of opinion and it’s going to happen again. Might as well learn to chill about it
    Sensitive much? What’s with this weird gas lighting? You’re the dude who started it with “that’s how children think…” as if that wasn’t coming off as an ass. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it. Read your own posts before you start acting like a crybaby and lying about whose coming off as aggressive. It’s so presumptuous that that’s your takeaway from just a few written sentences
    Last edited by Dejounte; 03-26-2023 at 05:06 PM.

  10. #135
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Lol ok

  11. #136
    Spurs fan in Las Vegas Drom John's Avatar
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    If you kiddies really want a re-eval. The pick should have been Sengun. But take a look at that draft. Let me know if you need pointers on how to use google to find the information. The only other player that has been any good is Trey Murphy. Tre Mann has sorta been okay, but not really. It's legit a really, really bad draft from then on.

    So... the Spurs actually did a pretty great maneuver taking a guy perceived to be later in the round higher, because the draft at that point was pretty lousy. Again, should have been Sengun. Murphy is a bit of a surprise, as he wasn't really that great at Virginia.

    Again, to spell it out. Should have picked Sengun. Picking Primo wasn't terrible, considering. He needed work, but anyone at that point did and I wasn't writing him off.

    What happened with him later is a separate issue than the draft pick itself. I suspect you know this but are pretending to be too stupid to understand.

    Verdict: Sengun should have been the pick. Primo was not a bad pick there.
    Generally agree that 2021 wan't a good draft year, but by basketball-reference VORP, the redraft available at #11 with career positive VORP so far would be:

    #11 (4 if starting redraft at #1) Murphy
    #12 (6) Sengun
    #13 (7) Herbert Jones
    #14 (8) Grimes
    #15 (9) Hyland
    #16 (10) Aldama
    #17 (11) Bassey
    #18 (12) Isaiah Jackson
    #19 (14) Jalen Johnson
    #20 (15) Garuba
    #21 (16) Sims
    #22 (18) Springer
    #23 (19) Robinson-Earl
    #24 (20) Garza
    #25 (21) Mamukelashvili
    #26 and below all have zero VORP or worse.

    Switching to redraft starting at #1 (actual draft)
    #47 (11) Primo, better than
    #48 (10) Ziare Williams
    #51 (5) Suggs
    #53 (9) Davion Mitc

  12. #137
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Spurs Draft Pick Life Cycle

    1. OMG! WTF! That was a terrible pick. Pop and all his minions need to be fired. There were so many better players on the board!
    2. Hmmm ... you know what, I actually kinda like the pick! <---- You Are Here
    3. I can't believe Pop isn't playing the pick! Pop is ruining the best young player on the roster! Like I said from the beginning, this pick is a special player.
    4. Wow. This player is so much better than everyone else in the rotation he's competing against.
    5. I'm so glad the Spurs drafted the player I wanted.
    6. Eh, he's pretty good but the new youngsters deserve his minutes now.
    7. OMG! WTF! Why won't Pop stop playing his pets? This guy sucks and always sucked. I don't even know why the Spurs drafted him.
    Need to adjusted the Life Cycle to account for unanticipated flashing.

  13. #138
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Some of the posts regarding BWrong's drafting prowess reminded me of this gem of a thread.

  14. #139
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    ROFL OP supporting a predator. He should never post here again.

  15. #140
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    OP needs to shoot himself in the head.

  16. #141
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    OP should’ve bet the under

  17. #142
    Veteran K...'s Avatar
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    sigh, we had actual NBA players back then like poertle and Richardson. it's no coincidence that we suck because we traded all our well rounded vets for marginal talents and 3p shooting specialists. Its stupid to argue that last years would not be a 500 side if they didnt trade the vets . But they did and most would say rightfully so, so i don't see what the problem is. Even after tanking our chances at wenby weren't great, Thank fate for your ability to gloat at this point.

    everyone blaming pop is ignoring that the kind of coaching we need is coaching from on the court.

  18. #143
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    This was arguably the only wholesome meme ST had. Shame it fell apart so quickly.

  19. #144
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    This was arguably the only wholesome meme ST had. Shame it fell apart so quickly.
    it still hurts

  20. #145
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    bend over, I'll make it still hurt

  21. #146
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    bend over, I'll make it still hurt
    6

  22. #147
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    they were selling your

  23. #148
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    they were selling your
    But can Kawhi wipe his own ass yet?

  24. #149
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    But can Kawhi wipe his own ass yet?
    splitter still cant post up fisher

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