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  1. #126
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Tanking with character and integrity, the right way.

  2. #127
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    I’m fine winning 35 games if the team has youth and upside like John Collins + our youth. I’m not fine missing out on top picks for Doug McDermott
    nobody wanted DeRozan tbh, except Pop and Brian Wright of course

  3. #128
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    I am still confused why spurstalk does not like this signing. He is a fine player. Position of need. Skill of need. Straight up replaces Mills and a certain extent Gay. He plays 24mins p/g. Shoots 38% from three at 4 attempts per game. He is 6ft7. Spurs have replied on 3 pointers from our guards for years, (mills, forbes, Walker, Beli.) We now have a legit swing shooter.

  4. #129
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    I am still confused why spurstalk does not like this signing. He is a fine player. Position of need. Skill of need. Straight up replaces Mills and a certain extent Gay. He plays 24mins p/g. Shoots 38% from three at 4 attempts per game. He is 6ft7. Spurs have replied on 3 pointers from our guards for years, (mills, forbes, Walker, Beli.) We now have a legit swing shooter.
    we get it,you love him. Good for you,tbh

  5. #130
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    I am still confused why spurstalk does not like this signing. He is a fine player. Position of need. Skill of need. Straight up replaces Mills and a certain extent Gay. He plays 24mins p/g. Shoots 38% from three at 4 attempts per game. He is 6ft7. Spurs have replied on 3 pointers from our guards for years, (mills, forbes, Walker, Beli.) We now have a legit swing shooter.
    he's a fine player. but you don't go 3 yrs. or not 42 Mill.

    maybe do 2 yrs. maybe 32M

  6. #131
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I am still confused why spurstalk does not like this signing. He is a fine player. Position of need. Skill of need. Straight up replaces Mills and a certain extent Gay. He plays 24mins p/g. Shoots 38% from three at 4 attempts per game. He is 6ft7. Spurs have replied on 3 pointers from our guards for years, (mills, forbes, Walker, Beli.) We now have a legit swing shooter.
    Simple - answer these questions:

    1) Losing DDR/Mills/Rudy, does signing Doug help the Spurs truly elevate to the playoffs?

    2) Is he young and fit well next to the youth to grow alongside them in order to build around them and have a ceiling as a team moving forward?

    3) Does he help in aiding a rebuild if playoffs aren’t a real option?

    If the answer to those aren’t Yes, Yes, Yes, then there is no reason to waste money on him just for the sake of wanting to appear to to bottom out.

  7. #132
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    he's a fine player. but you don't go 3 yrs. or not 42 Mill.

    maybe do 2 yrs. maybe 32M
    Looking at the numbers out there, it's about right.

  8. #133
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I’m fine winning 35 games if the team has youth and upside like John Collins + our youth. I’m not fine missing out on top picks for Doug McDermott
    Wait, you've been crying and moaning all day long for a scenario that still has a pretty good chance of happening?! The Spurs can't force JColl to accept the offer sheet, you know that, right? It's literally up to the Hawks what they do about Collins. The only difference between the two scenarios you lay out here is something outside of the team's control (assuming, as we might, that the Spurs are offering JColl the max with the cap space they specifically left untouched so far).... Well, and your own doomer perception of it.

    Talk about drowning in a glass of water...

  9. #134
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    U sOn oF a iM In (btw got any of that PATFO ?)

  10. #135
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I am still confused why spurstalk does not like this signing. He is a fine player. Position of need. Skill of need. Straight up replaces Mills and a certain extent Gay. He plays 24mins p/g. Shoots 38% from three at 4 attempts per game. He is 6ft7. Spurs have replied on 3 pointers from our guards for years, (mills, forbes, Walker, Beli.) We now have a legit swing shooter.
    It's easy, actually: Spurstalk doesn't understand value contracts, and has a severe case of SpursTalk Syndrome - anything the Spurs do is loathable, anything other teams do is good, until the Spurs do it, then it's loathable too.

    Go back and check the Poeltl signing thread and see how the sky was also falling. , the beloved timvp got caught up on that one too. It was obvious at the time that it was a great value signing and fair market value, but this is ST...

  11. #136
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    I am still confused why spurstalk does not like this signing. He is a fine player. Position of need. Skill of need. Straight up replaces Mills and a certain extent Gay. He plays 24mins p/g. Shoots 38% from three at 4 attempts per game. He is 6ft7. Spurs have replied on 3 pointers from our guards for years, (mills, forbes, Walker, Beli.) We now have a legit swing shooter.
    I don't hate it but I don't like it, tbh.

    I agree that the Spurs needed a shooter to space the court but paying above MLE for McDermott is tough to justify. A shooting big was preferred, not a 3 who is sometimes too slow to defend 3s so he shifts to 4. McDermott is a bad defender already and will only decline over the age of 30. Cap space is super valuable to a rebuilding team -- but this just needlessly eats away at it.

    McDermott is better than someone like Korkmaz but I'll take Korkmaz at $5 million a year. At least he's young, has some upside, isn't locked into being a bad defender and doesn't eat as much cap room. Plus Korkmaz shoots threes at a higher volume. McDermott isn't even really a high volume three-point shooter. Walker shot threes more often last year and Walker would go possessions at a time without getting a touch

    In any of the previous 25 years or whatever, signing McDermott would have been okay. This summer? Ehh, I can't cosign.

    I won't lose sleep because the Spurs reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally needed a floor spacer and McDermott is that (and signing him isn't nearly as bad as re-signing DeRozan, Mills or Gay) but it doesn't give me any confidence in this front office.

  12. #137
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Go back and check the Poeltl signing thread and see how the sky was also falling. , the beloved timvp got caught up on that one too. It was obvious at the time that it was a great value signing and fair market value, but this is ST...
    Eh, after Cody Zeller signed for the minimum, Poeltl's contract still doesn't look that amazing. It's okay as long as he's used in a starting role (as I said at the time -- my issue was I didn't want Poeltl making that much as a backup) but let's not pretend his contract is mindblowingly amazing. It's pretty much his going rate.

  13. #138
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    I don't hate it but I don't like it, tbh.

    I agree that the Spurs needed a shooter to space the court but paying above MLE for McDermott is tough to justify. A shooting big was preferred, not a 3 who is sometimes too slow to defend 3s so he shifts to 4. McDermott is a bad defender already and will only decline over the age of 30. Cap space is super valuable to a rebuilding team -- but this just needlessly eats away at it.

    McDermott is better than someone like Korkmaz but I'll take Korkmaz at $5 million a year. At least he's young, has some upside, isn't locked into being a bad defender and doesn't eat as much cap room. Plus Korkmaz shoots threes at a higher volume. McDermott isn't even really a high volume three-point shooter. Walker shot threes more often last year and Walker would go possessions at a time without getting a touch

    In any of the previous 25 years or whatever, signing McDermott would have been okay. This summer? Ehh, I can't cosign.

    I won't lose sleep because the Spurs reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally needed a floor spacer and McDermott is that (and signing him isn't nearly as bad as re-signing DeRozan, Mills or Gay) but it doesn't give me any confidence in this front office.
    The way I see it, the Spurs need a 3, a shooter, and a vet. Unfortunately the Spurs are not playing for a le and need to give more dollar instinctive to get what they want. Bullock is probably the deal of the off season thus far, 10mil per, 6f6 and shoots that well. He is perfect for the Mavs. But the Mavs have a legit mvp and Spurs don't. Mcdermott is exactly what the Spurs need and if my maths are right the spurs have space to still go after Collins.

  14. #139
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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  15. #140
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    David Robinson and Tim Duncan are not coming through any doors. Most of us, including me, have never known what the Spurs being a middling team looks like and we're learning on the fly. Let's just make sure DeRozan era is behind us and hope the team builds an all-star from within from this current stock and future drafts.

    McDermott at $15m has value even if as a deadline trade to a contender for a 1st round pick in the next two seasons. We'll have someone who's just as or more useful from 3pt than Gay. I've always liked the guy out of Creighton so I'm biased on the signing. I think Wright made a good move for a change.
    He isn't worth a second round pick, much less a first round pick.

  16. #141
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Wait, you've been crying and moaning all day long for a scenario that still has a pretty good chance of happening?! The Spurs can't force JColl to accept the offer sheet, you know that, right? It's literally up to the Hawks what they do about Collins. The only difference between the two scenarios you lay out here is something outside of the team's control (assuming, as we might, that the Spurs are offering JColl the max with the cap space they specifically left untouched so far).... Well, and your own doomer perception of it.

    Talk about drowning in a glass of water...
    First of all - hi.

    Secondly it’s pretty obvious my beef and should be to anyone with a functioning brain at this point

    Who said SA can force Collins to sign an offer sheet? Or that even if he did they get him? I have said 100x that all that matters is they make the effort; they have no control over either him wanting to come or ATL matching.

    However, with a little bit of paying attention and context the beef is the moves they have made. The draft or Primo at 12, the signing of a 29 year old ty defensive player on a rebuilding team for 3 years, signing an oft injured player with what should be no compe ion for 3/22M.

    Of course I would be happy with John Collins; who the wouldn’t be? But none of that changes all the above UNLESS that happens. SA f’d up so bad so far. They now are in a position where they absolutely have to sign someone like Collins just to break even vs it be a disaster.

    They unnecessarily put themselves in a position where IF landing a star doesn’t happen that they really messed up. There is no excuse for that. They had everything gift wrapped when it comes to going a mul ude of ways; a top 12 pick, tons of cap space, etc..They could have used their cap space for taking on deals and getting picks or punting space for next years better class, or getting a young star possibly in Collins while still having space to put some good pieces around him.

    Instead? They immediately put themselves behind the 8 ball, squandered 2/3rds of their assets (lottery pick and 22M in space) and they have what to show for it?

    Are they better than they were last year towards being a legit playoff team? Are they further along in their assets for a rebuild? No. They did jack sh*t and now are at the mercy of needing to land a big fish to salvage this or make it make any sense.

    So yes, I’ve been crying and moaning and unless you disagree with any of it, what is your point?

  17. #142
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Eh, after Cody Zeller signed for the minimum, Poeltl's contract still doesn't look that amazing. It's okay as long as he's used in a starting role (as I said at the time -- my issue was I didn't want Poeltl making that much as a backup) but let's not pretend his contract is mindblowingly amazing. It's pretty much his going rate.
    Cody Zeller is trash, no way he sets the market for Jakob. And it's not that Jakob's contract is mindblowingly good, it's just pretty good - now go back to the thread and see the reactions at it. Your own, even . Again, sky was falling, needlessly, as it always does in ST whenever Pop or RC make the slightest move.

    Seeing the rest of the contracts handed out today, and pending on McDermott's production, I don't see this as a bad contract at all. And yet the sky is falling. That's all I'm saying.

  18. #143
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    It's easy, actually: Spurstalk doesn't understand value contracts, and has a severe case of SpursTalk Syndrome - anything the Spurs do is loathable, anything other teams do is good, until the Spurs do it, then it's loathable too.

    Go back and check the Poeltl signing thread and see how the sky was also falling. , the beloved timvp got caught up on that one too. It was obvious at the time that it was a great value signing and fair market value, but this is ST...

    This is stupid, no offense. Value contracts? Spurs missed the playoffs two years in a row and couldn’t flip any of their value deals to help improve their chances at the playoffs or accelerate their future . So how are they value contracts?

    You’re lying with the mindset; plenty of us would have been plenty happy with tons of scenarios. If they traded back and got value and took Primo. A OK. If they took a projected lottery talent instead of reaching? A OK.

    If in FA they didn’t sign a 29 year old player with poor defense to a 3 year deal on a rebuilding team before having other pieces in place that THEY CONTROL to make it make sense? A OK

    If they would have taken on a bad deal and gotten draft picks? A OK. If they would have signed Dieng for a one year deal instead of taking a massive risk on an injured mediocre Zach Collins? A OK.

    So no, you’re wrong. It’s not ST. It’s the FO that has been really really poor, built a team that couldn’t make the playoffs, ran that same team back and missed the playoffs, didn’t sell any vets when they had the chance for assets, got a get out of jail free card in a lottery pick and tons of cap space and now find themselves in an equal or worse position with regards to playoffs or rebuild despite having the assets.

  19. #144
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    I don't hate it but I don't like it, tbh.

    I agree that the Spurs needed a shooter to space the court but paying above MLE for McDermott is tough to justify. A shooting big was preferred, not a 3 who is sometimes too slow to defend 3s so he shifts to 4. McDermott is a bad defender already and will only decline over the age of 30. Cap space is super valuable to a rebuilding team -- but this just needlessly eats away at it.

    McDermott is better than someone like Korkmaz but I'll take Korkmaz at $5 million a year. At least he's young, has some upside, isn't locked into being a bad defender and doesn't eat as much cap room. Plus Korkmaz shoots threes at a higher volume. McDermott isn't even really a high volume three-point shooter. Walker shot threes more often last year and Walker would go possessions at a time without getting a touch

    In any of the previous 25 years or whatever, signing McDermott would have been okay. This summer? Ehh, I can't cosign.

    I won't lose sleep because the Spurs reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally needed a floor spacer and McDermott is that (and signing him isn't nearly as bad as re-signing DeRozan, Mills or Gay) but it doesn't give me any confidence in this front office.
    Where do you think the other $28 million is going?

  20. #145
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    The way I see it, the Spurs need a 3, a shooter, and a vet. Unfortunately the Spurs are not playing for a le and need to give more dollar instinctive to get what they want. Bullock is probably the deal of the off season thus far, 10mil per, 6f6 and shoots that well. He is perfect for the Mavs. But the Mavs have a legit mvp and Spurs don't. Mcdermott is exactly what the Spurs need and if my maths are right the spurs have space to still go after Collins.
    It’s the opposite IMO. They aren’t contending so you definitely dont spend 3 years 42M for mediocre players just because you can. You stick to one year deals knowing you aren’t contending and you preserve the most valuable asset a rebuilding team has; flexibility

  21. #146
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    No FA is going to come here on a a bargain deal unless he’s washed up people be realistic.

    Remember Demarre Carroll, Zach Collins? The first Washed up, the second in a wheelchair?
    Exactly.

    It’s a market deal. Not who people want I get it and it’s a move that’s independent from that. This might be a blip all told.

    Spurs also drafted a couple of shooters but bc of they will need to get over themselves first.

    They didn’t have a single veteran shooter in this roster with Mills and Gay fielding offers from other teams.

  22. #147
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    It’s the opposite IMO. They aren’t contending so you definitely dont spend 3 years 42M for mediocre players just because you can. You stick to one year deals knowing you aren’t contending and you preserve the most valuable asset a rebuilding team has; flexibility
    its all moot now. This is our spur fan reality

  23. #148
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    We got a sharpshooter at market value and you guys still .... I would love to see how some of you move in real life����. I’m pretty sure I know the answer.....

  24. #149
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    And it's not that Jakob's contract is mindblowingly good, it's just pretty good - now go back to the thread and see the reactions at it. Your own, even . Again, sky was falling, needlessly, as it always does in ST whenever Pop or RC make the slightest move.
    timvp was wrong about Poeltl is a good meme. I don't fight it, tbh. It's a funny one.

    But if you read what I wrote about the situation, I'm not sure how accurate that meme is.

    What do you think about the Spurs re-signing Jakob Poeltl? Did they pay him too much or is that a good deal for San Antonio?

    Value-wise, the Spurs did fine. The market for comparable centers ended up being hotter than I expected it to be, so if you’re focusing on value, there’s no reason to be upset with Jakob Poeltl getting $27 million over three years. Considering that Mason Plumlee got $25 million over three seasons, San Antonio has to be pleased. Poeltl is better than Plumlee and five years younger, so paying $2 million more over three years can be classified as a win.

    That said, I’m not sold on whether this was the right move for San Antonio. Going into free agency, I advocated for setting the budget at $7 million for Poeltl. As it turned out, his contract will start at $8.3 million. Judging this transaction on the budget I set, the Spurs went over budget by $1.3 million — which obviously isn’t a huge deal in a league where the salary cap is well north of $100 million. It’s essentially a rounding error in the grand scheme of the NBA salary cap world.

    Another silver lining of Poeltl’s deal is it was (just barely) small enough to keep the Spurs under the luxury tax threshold. If it was even just a little bit larger, the Spurs would have had to do some potentially costly salary cap gymnastics to avoid paying the tax. In such a scenario, the Spurs may have been forced to give up desirable young players or picks. That was avoided with the contract Poeltl signed, which is a definite plus.

    But, again, I thought the best way forward was for the Spurs to open as much salary cap room next summer as was reasonably possible. Does it make sense to use more than $8 million in what have been salary cap room to lock up a player who appears destined for a backup role for at least another season? Unless something changes, that’s at best iffy. Good signing in terms of value, questionable signing when focusing on salary cap management.

    If the Spurs turn around and trade LaMarcus Aldridge, would that change your view on Poeltl’s signing?

    Oh, yeah, absolutely. My critique of the Poeltl signing is assuming the Spurs stand pat and basically do nothing else until next summer. If the Spurs turn around and move LaMarcus Aldridge now that they are assured Poeltl will be returning, that would change everything. Depending on what the Spurs get back in a hypothetical trade involving Aldridge, it’s highly likely that signing Poeltl to a three-year, $27 million contract was a no-brainer.

    In fact, to change the dynamics of how Poeltl’s contract should be viewed, it doesn’t necessarily have to be Aldridge getting traded. For example, if the Spurs trade DeMar DeRozan, Patty Mills or Rudy Gay in a deal that brings back draft assets attached to a bad contract, that would make this Poeltl contract look much better in retrospect.

    However, if the Spurs simply run it back, don’t make any notable moves and remain in a holding pattern, the decision to eat into their 2021 cap space to secure the services of a backup center will continue to look dubious.

    https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antoni...-drew-eubanks/
    If that's the best example of timvp being wrong, I mean, alright.

    I'm rooting for the "the Spurs front office shouldn't be doubted because the Poeltl contract was amazing" train to be right ... but I don't think it's the glorious win the train conductors think it is, tbh.

  25. #150
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    This is stupid, no offense. Value contracts? Spurs missed the playoffs two years in a row and couldn’t flip any of their value deals to help improve their chances at the playoffs or accelerate their future . So how are they value contracts?

    You’re lying with the mindset; plenty of us would have been plenty happy with tons of scenarios. If they traded back and got value and took Primo. A OK. If they took a projected lottery talent instead of reaching? A OK.

    If in FA they didn’t sign a 29 year old player with poor defense to a 3 year deal on a rebuilding team before having other pieces in place that THEY CONTROL to make it make sense? A OK

    If they would have taken on a bad deal and gotten draft picks? A OK. If they would have signed Dieng for a one year deal instead of taking a massive risk on an injured mediocre Zach Collins? A OK.

    So no, you’re wrong. It’s not ST. It’s the FO that has been really really poor, built a team that couldn’t make the playoffs, ran that same team back and missed the playoffs, didn’t sell any vets when they had the chance for assets, got a get out of jail free card in a lottery pick and tons of cap space and now find themselves in an equal or worse position with regards to playoffs or rebuild despite having the assets.

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