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  1. #451
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    You miss every shot you don't take. There's no downside to forcing ATL to match at a higher salary
    ATL even got a bargain on Collins as a result of nobody even making the attempt.
    Yes there is - the money you offer to a RFA on an offer sheet is tied up, and unusable, until the other team either matches the offer, or declines to match and then you can sign it, but they have no obligation of answering the offer until the very last second, so it can effectively mean tying up all of your capspace and money, until all the worthwile FAs have signed with other teams and are gone, and ultimately getting nothing for it, when ATL (most likely) matches.

    It'll be the same conundrum next off-season, when the Spurs have the opportunity to make a max offer to Ayton. In that case, to the contrary of the Collins situation, the Spurs will probably offer him the max - both because he'd be by far the best possible FA to get, and because the Suns are already in a complicated spot salary-wise, so there's a tangible chance that they won't/can't max without going deep into the luxury tax, which Sarver famously tries to avoid. It's a much better situation than the Collins one to "risk out" for.

  2. #452
    Formerly Spurs21
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    Yes there is - the money you offer to a RFA on an offer sheet is tied up, and unusable, until the other team either matches the offer, or declines to match and then you can sign it, but they have no obligation of answering the offer until the very last second, so it can effectively mean tying up all of your capspace and money, until all the worthwile FAs have signed with other teams and are gone, and ultimately getting nothing for it, when ATL (most likely) matches.

    It'll be the same conundrum next off-season, when the Spurs have the opportunity to make a max offer to Ayton. In that case, to the contrary of the Collins situation, the Spurs will probably offer him the max - both because he'd be by far the best possible FA to get, and because the Suns are already in a complicated spot salary-wise, so there's a tangible chance that they won't/can't max without going deep into the luxury tax, which Sarver famously tries to avoid. It's a much better situation than the Collins one to "risk out" for.
    We’ll need to dump a contract like White or McLovin’ to go after Ayton. The way things are shaping up we will have ~20mm if we let Forbes, Thad and Walker go.

  3. #453
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    Collins will get us into play in game. Calling it now...that's if we haven't jacked up our record bad enough

  4. #454
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    It amazes me sometimes how much the homers here love their scrubs.
    case in point
    His last healthy season, had one of the best rim defense FG%, and shoots the 3 ball. No one thinks heís Duncan, just possibly a center that you can play more than situationally. His total guaranteed money for the deal is about $10M, roughly one year of an MLE deal. The guy had surgery in April, so, no, Wright and RC will not be surprised that heís not ready until 2022.

  5. #455
    Formerly Spurs21
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    Ex made some great points here. Zollins check many boxes when healthy. He has the potential to be a very solid and versatile role player in a position of need.

  6. #456
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    This won’t age well.....

  7. #457
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    Collins will be really nice if healthy......mobile enough to go twin towers

  8. #458
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    Not sure I would still expect Collins to have whatever mobility rep he had after his foot exploding three times

  9. #459
    Believe. Degoat's Avatar
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    I’m setting myself up for disappointment but I have high hopes for ZC… I know it’s a big IF but if ZC comes back fully healthy we may have our next big man. I love and appreciate Jakob but he’s a liability not being able to shoot

  10. #460
    I will not be mishandled MI21's Avatar
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    I will be shocked if this guy ever contributes to meaningful basketball for the Spurs even if healthy.

  11. #461
    Believe. Rocalcio's Avatar
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    I’m setting myself up for disappointment but I have high hopes for ZC… I know it’s a big IF but if ZC comes back fully healthy we may have our next big man. I love and appreciate Jakob but he’s a liability not being able to shoot
    Jakob developed a nice teardrop shot this season, he’s improving on the offensive side.

  12. #462
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Zollins would be a pleasant change over Eubanks. Drew has just been too short for teams with big men

  13. #463
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    We’ll need to dump a contract like White or McLovin’ to go after Ayton. The way things are shaping up we will have ~20mm if we let Forbes, Thad and Walker go.
    You sure about that? I was under the impression the Spurs, even with DJ, White and McLovin's () contracts, would still have enough cap space for a max offer sheet, even if it would likely put them over the cap and maybe even into lux-tax territory. At that point, it'd kinda be a win-win situation: Suns don't match, and you've snagged a #1 pick from a rival team without having to tank for it, or they do match, and you've made their salary cap situation , while also not tying yourself up to a full-on max deal. I like both outcomes, obviously would rather have the former though.

    I'm no cap-ologist though, you might be right. In any case, I don't see a single player on this Spurs team being truly "untouchable" in that regard if it means getting a chance at Ayton. I like DWhite... But it's buh-bye if that chance arises, tbh.

  14. #464
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Jakob developed a nice teardrop shot this season, he’s improving on the offensive side.
    Not to mention made huge strides getting to the basket, setting up the offense, and rim-running, which was getting him consistent double-digits scoring games early in the season, before he got COVID/was held out for H&S protocols.

    Sadly, he didn't look the same to me after he came back, at least aggressiveness-wise... Looked like he lost that "edge" or spark that fueled him at the beginning of the season. I'm giving him a long leash, because we saw the dude play very different literally three weeks ago, but still, I'd like him to get back to that form. And if he does - that's far from a liability. Just goes to show how shooting-obsessed the NBA is becoming, sadly.

  15. #465
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    ssome people have longer lasting after effects such as balance problems. Not saying this is the case here with a professsional athlete, but it takes some time to recover from any serious illness, even when the virus itself appears to have been stopped.
    Last edited by wildbill2u; 11-26-2021 at 03:25 PM.

  16. #466
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Not to mention made huge strides getting to the basket, setting up the offense, and rim-running, which was getting him consistent double-digits scoring games early in the season, before he got COVID/was held out for H&S protocols.

    Sadly, he didn't look the same to me after he came back, at least aggressiveness-wise... Looked like he lost that "edge" or spark that fueled him at the beginning of the season. I'm giving him a long leash, because we saw the dude play very different literally three weeks ago, but still, I'd like him to get back to that form. And if he does - that's far from a liability. Just goes to show how shooting-obsessed the NBA is becoming, sadly.
    Hate to rant on Poeltl, but thatís my criticism of him. He fizzles until he gets another kick in the ass. Heís the most important part of the Spurs with him anchoring defense, and if heís aggressive on scoring, including posting, Spurs could be very good. With what little Iíve seen of Zollins, he has that swagger in him. I like to see a little compe ion in the position for Poeltl to get going.

  17. #467
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    You sure about that? I was under the impression the Spurs, even with DJ, White and McLovin's () contracts, would still have enough cap space for a max offer sheet, even if it would likely put them over the cap and maybe even into lux-tax territory. At that point, it'd kinda be a win-win situation: Suns don't match, and you've snagged a #1 pick from a rival team without having to tank for it, or they do match, and you've made their salary cap situation , while also not tying yourself up to a full-on max deal. I like both outcomes, obviously would rather have the former though.

    I'm no cap-ologist though, you might be right. In any case, I don't see a single player on this Spurs team being truly "untouchable" in that regard if it means getting a chance at Ayton. I like DWhite... But it's buh-bye if that chance arises, tbh.
    By my math looks like we will have 20-25mm depending on where the cap comes in (I suspect it will be higher than the this years $112mm). Wouldn’t be too tough to clear some room to max Ayton which would start around 30mm I believe.

  18. #468
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    By my math looks like we will have 20-25mm depending on where the cap comes in (I suspect it will be higher than the this years $112mm). Wouldn’t be too tough to clear some room to max Ayton which would start around 30mm I believe.
    Won’t be difficult. Cap holds for Thad and Lonnie total over 33M. Forbes is another 5.4M. Cacok is somewhere north of 1M, the total holds being around 40-41M. Easy to clear that room if they decide to mess with PHO.

  19. #469
    Veteran Poolboy5623's Avatar
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    These "when he's healthy" comments are hilarious. Z Collins is NEVER healthy...

  20. #470
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    By my math looks like we will have 20-25mm depending on where the cap comes in (I suspect it will be higher than the this years $112mm). Wouldn’t be too tough to clear some room to max Ayton which would start around 30mm I believe.
    Yeah, barring trades, Spurs will have about $83 mil on 12 contracts next summer if they keep Zollins, KBD, Tre, Landale and Ewbanks and renounce Lonnie. The big unknowns are next year's cap and the Spurs future pick's contract, which depends on the draft position. They could create more room if they waive Zollins's contract if they need to but it seems doable to get a max slot for next summer and go after Ayton or Lavine. Problem is it's very doubtful they'd get either of them even if they try.

  21. #471
    Formerly Spurs21
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    Yeah, barring trades, Spurs will have about $83 mil on 12 contracts next summer if they keep Zollins, KBD, Tre, Landale and Ewbanks and renounce Lonnie. The big unknowns are next year's cap and the Spurs future pick's contract, which depends on the draft position. They could create more room if they waive Zollins's contract if they need to but it seems doable to get a max slot for next summer and go after Ayton or Lavine. Problem is it's very doubtful they'd get either of them even if they try.
    White, Jak and Collins could all be usable trade pieces to target free agents via sign and trade. We will likely have a top 5 lottery pick and pretty good cap flexibility next off season but I don’t see us making much of a splash in free agency. Lavine is definitely getting the max, which is probably starting at ~35mm.

  22. #472
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Landale is literally never going to play, is he?

  23. #473
    Believe.
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    Its sad that with all of Collins injuries the second he steps on the court he will be our second best big and the second he makes two 3's in a game he will be our best big

  24. #474
    Veteran Chomag's Avatar
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    I think there is a decent chance that Jock might just as good as Collins at this point, its not like Collins has set the bar very high even on that rare time he has been healthy. However we may never know since Pop seems to not favor him for giving him playing time.

    Unless you are a vet you really do get the short end of the stick especially your first year here because of Pop seems to have a phobia for young players there first year here.

    I just would love a legit explanation on why a player can't be asked to contribute unless they are old when they arrive here. Just because they are inexperienced doesn't mean that they are re ed.

  25. #475
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Landale is literally never going to play, is he?
    Was wondering the same thing. My guess is that Pop still sees training camp as something where players earn their minutes for the year, and Jock was out. Not sure what else it could be because Drew has not taken a step I thought he would. And so more broadly, if Jock can’t get minutes, then there’s no way Luka was getting any all year.

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