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  1. #626
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Nice walk back.

    Let’s see if we can agree on a list, as opposed to paragraphs of words.

    DeRozan trade picks
    2022 LAL SRP
    2025 CHI SRP
    2025 or later CHI FRP that conveys as a 2028 SRP if we don’t get the FRP by 2027. Protections 1-10,1-8,1-8

    Pick from 5 team Westbrook trade for accepting the Hutchison contract.
    Better of Detroit’s or Chicago’s 2022 SRPs, with the worse going to Sacto.

    Don’t even ask about the SRP swap with Indy for McD. The incoming/outgoing 2023 SRPs likely won’t convey (>55), but we will get one of 3 2026 SRPs on the table, I think the better of ours, vs. the worse of Miami and Indy. I hate pick swaps with more than 2 teams.
    Yeah, that's about the size of it. I think there was initially some misunderstanding about the LAL pick, since it was conditional as well. From what I read, it used to be that Washington had the extra option to swap the LAL pick for the better of the DET/CHI pick, so during the very early days/hours of the DMDR trade getting announced, there was a chance the Spurs wouldn't receive LAL's pick if they somehow finished worse than Detroit and the Bulls. But after the Hutch trade, the Spurs have both, and there's no need to swap. The Spurs have the Lakers' pick outright, and they can trade it without conditions if they so want. I wanted to make that clear, because I know I hadn't realized the conditions were gone until a month or so ago.

  2. #627
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    We might be docked an SRP if DDR doesn’t shhhh…

    https://airalamo.com/posts/san-anton...les-lakers/amp
    It’s only tampering if the receiving team does it. As a trading team, you can actually give your player permission to talk to other teams, making tampering moot.

  3. #628
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    It’s only tampering if the receiving team does it. As a trading team, you can actually give your player permission to talk to other teams, making tampering moot.
    Fair point and I guess non playoff teams are actually allowed to transact once eliminated if I recall correctly so bit of a grey area.

  4. #629
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    We might be docked an SRP if DDR doesn’t shhhh…

    https://airalamo.com/posts/san-anton...les-lakers/amp
    I think Windhorst is twisting DeRozan's words trying to read between them. DeMar never says the Spurs were engaged in an S&T. He says he and Lebron talked it out and agreed on it. My guess is that the Spurs and DeRozan likely did talk about S&T possibility as part of "extension" talks (which were legal until the moratorium even though re-signing talks are not). He knew the Spurs would be willing to deal him if they could get back a good deal, and so his agent solicited offers. He got the general idea that LAL wanted DeRozan, but when that fell through, he started gauging Chicago's interest. None of that is illegal either. Clearly based on everything reported, there wasn't any handshake agreement in place between the Spurs and Bulls before the moratorium, and the Westbrook trade makes it pretty obvious there wasn't one with LAL either.

    Windhorst is just trying to drum up controversy by acting like it's the same thing, but without even knowing whom the Spurs would have wanted the Lakers to draft with their first, there's little proof. Unlike Washington (or eventually Indiana), the Spurs were never going to be able to make that pick directly, so they would have had to tell LAL whom they wanted. The Spurs didn't seem to covet anyone in that range enough to get a pick some other way, and given how cheaply those picks were being sold for, they definitely could have gotten one. Of course, you could stir the pot and say that they wanted Primo with that pick and just pulled a Masai and overdrafted him once they knew they didn't have the later pick, but there's too much evidence against that too.

  5. #630
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    It’s only tampering if the receiving team does it. As a trading team, you can actually give your player permission to talk to other teams, making tampering moot.
    Yeah, that's sort of a way to look at it:

    The Kings were not penalized for their role in this situation because it is legal to discuss potential trades with opposing teams, even if they involve restricted free agents. Where Milwaukee stepped out of bounds was when they contacted Bogdanovic’s agent, Jason Rainey, and initiated contract discussions.
    https://www.yahoo.com/now/nba-explai...213329188.html

    Basically there's nothing wrong with an agent asking the Spurs what they'd want in a DeRozan deal. I didn't know and don't really know if I agree with the part I quoted, but if true, the Spurs could have then asked LAL if they were willing to give up whatever for DeRozan. The reason why the trade couldn't be announced during the draft, is because the Lakers and DeRozan would have to agree to a deal to secure an S&T, and they can't do that without contacting him. The contact would cons ute tampering, not the trade talks. From everything we've heard, the Lakers and DeRozan did not speak. As I said, I don't know that I'm willing to ride all the way with the Yahoo article on trade discussions including S&Ts during the draft. But if true, the DeRozan talks were clearly legal, and Windhorst should be embarrassed for reporting something he should know is false.

  6. #631
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    I’d argue everyone team in the league bends the rules behind closed doors. The Spurs are no different. The amount of deals that are agreed upon within minutes of the usual July 1 free agency frenzy is evidence enough. I seem
    to recall a pretty not so hush hush arrangement with Derek Anderson and the Spurs in the early 00s. Sign here on a 1 year mid-level and will make it up the next year when we have cap space.

  7. #632
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    If the Lakers continue to bomb and Chicago continues to play well, I wonder if we’ll openly hear LeBron provide one of his cryptic messages criticizing the Lakers FO for not following through with DeRozan. Seems like they were trying to short change Demar at the time, IIRC.

  8. #633
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    Iím glad Demar is gone, but whatís frustrating to me is fans and media bought this narrative that Demar wasnít good which again made his trade value crap
    His trade value was crappy because he was an unrestricted free agent.

  9. #634
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I believe the Spurs would have traded DeRozan last off-season (meaning 2020) had they gotten offers of decent expirings, a first and a second. I definitely believe DeRozan was underrated by the media. Many folks on ST were among them, and their cognitive dissonance is sparking like mad seeing him play well on a better team.

  10. #635
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    I believe the Spurs would have traded DeRozan last off-season (meaning 2020) had they gotten offers of decent expirings, a first and a second. I definitely believe DeRozan was underrated by the media. Many folks on ST were among them, and their cognitive dissonance is sparking like mad seeing him play well on a better team.
    Derozan suffered from what I call the Pop effect. Every time a Spurs player outside of the big 3 has any success they are not taken seriously because the media and casual fans will say "This guy is only good because of Pop's coaching and system but if he was on any other team he wouldn't be that good." I heard this even last night when the Warrior commentators kept on giving credit to Pop throughout the game but not any of the Spurs players. This is what happened with Kawhi when he was here. This is also what happened with Derozan when he was here with the Spurs the last few years. He was still an all-star but wasn't acknowledged as one due to playing with Pop. This affected his trade value since he was perceived as a system player.

  11. #636
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    Almost every journo who reported on DD while he was here said the trade value for him was Zero. After his on/off numbers being bad across 2 different teams, it seems his shot creation became undervalued. Pairing him with what turns out to be the best perimeter defender in the league as well as another excellent defender in Lonzo, has really maximised his game.

  12. #637
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    If the Lakers continue to bomb and Chicago continues to play well, I wonder if we’ll openly hear LeBron provide one of his cryptic messages criticizing the Lakers FO for not following through with DeRozan. Seems like they were trying to short change Demar at the time, IIRC.

    Sounds like they want to start tampering charges from some article I saw the other day. That the Spurs tampered and thats the reason he's not a Laker.

  13. #638
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Sounds like they want to start tampering charges from some article I saw the other day. That the Spurs tampered and thats the reason he's not a Laker.
    Uh, no. The deal was in place, until Westchuck became available. The Lakers were the ones that bailed. SA then pivoted to Chicago.

  14. #639
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    It’s no surprise that he’s a perfect fit for the Bulls. In order to maximize DeRozan he needs to play with 4 outside shooters. That was never the case with the Spurs, but it is on the Bulls. Besides that he got some good defenders around him and he doesn’t have to be the #1 option with LaVine on the team. Perfect situation for him

  15. #640
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    Uh, no. The deal was in place, until Westchuck became available. The Lakers were the ones that bailed. SA then pivoted to Chicago.
    Not arguing it, but this article? was quoting Windhorst which tried to implicate the Spurs as tampering. And that's the reason DDR didn't end up with the LAL

  16. #641
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    Almost every journo who reported on DD while he was here said the trade value for him was Zero. After his on/off numbers being bad across 2 different teams, it seems his shot creation became undervalued. Pairing him with what turns out to be the best perimeter defender in the league as well as another excellent defender in Lonzo, has really maximised his game.
    Who is the best perimeter defender in the league?

  17. #642
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    Not arguing it, but this article? was quoting Windhorst which tried to implicate the Spurs as tampering. And that's the reason DDR didn't end up with the LAL
    Rule one: it’s not possible to tamper with your own player. They can actually give permission to DeMar and his representatives to talk to anyone at any time. Windhorst threw out some clickbait, and you fell for it.

  18. #643
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    I’ll never understand wanting Russ Westbrick over DDR. I think DDR would have been great on the Lakers.

  19. #644
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    Rule one: it’s not possible to tamper with your own player. They can actually give permission to DeMar and his representatives to talk to anyone at any time. Windhorst threw out some clickbait, and you fell for it.
    Didn't fall for it... just regurgitating horse crap

  20. #645
    Believe. gilmor2002's Avatar
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    Almost every journo who reported on DD while he was here said the trade value for him was Zero. After his on/off numbers being bad across 2 different teams, it seems his shot creation became undervalued. Pairing him with what turns out to be the best perimeter defender in the league as well as another excellent defender in Lonzo, has really maximised his game.
    It is not sustainable because that best perimeter defender will be injured; I think Spurs is still better off without him and left with the young core.

  21. #646
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    The only complain i have about DDR when he is on the Spurs is that when it is crunch time he just goes tunnel vision and left all his playmaking skillset on the bench. It's so easy to plan against us in those situation don't bite on fake and his effectiveness drops drastically. He also don't shoot 3 so just slag off him to deny him path to rim and invite him to shoot his mids. The other team just counter with 3s or slashing to rms which are much more efficient shots.

  22. #647
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    It is not sustainable because that best perimeter defender will be injured; I think Spurs is still better off without him and left with the young core.
    I’m genuinely confused, who are you guys referring to as the best perimeter defender on the Bulls?

  23. #648
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    I’m genuinely confused, who are you guys referring to as the best perimeter defender on the Bulls?
    Ernie's son

  24. #649
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  25. #650
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    I didn't like the trade then,and i still dont now. That potential future first is the only thing saving this deal. Hopefully those 2nd's can get spurs back into rnd1 of the draft

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