In before someone says big wings are wings
Since I keep seeing things like Aminu as a three, Collins as a four, Johnson as a two, etc. . .
Big wings (combo forwards, modern fours and small ball fives): Johnson (cf), McDermott (cf), Young (mf/sbf), Aminu (mf), Samanic (mf), Bates-Diop (mf), Hutchinson (cf)
Bigs: Poeltl, Eubanks, Landale, Collins
Wings: Vassell, Wieskamp
Guards (points, combos and those who blur the line between guard/wing): White (cg/w) Murray, Forbes, Walker IV (g/w), Jones, Primo (g/w)
In before someone says big wings are wings
KBD may look the part of a modern four, but the Spurs clearly utilized him differently as he spent every minute of his time on the court playing with another 4 (he defends the smaller of the two opposing forwards). For example, whenever he was out there with Luka/ Gay, Luka/ Gay would be defending Randle and not him. KBD is surprisingly agile and has a fast processing speed, that’s why I’m sad to see him go.
If Murray has improved his c&s perimeter shot (I think it's likely), would you consider he too to be like Walker, a G/W?
Sure, not all of these players will play 100% of their minutes at their ideal position(s) due to roster construction, injuries, rest, etc. What I'm saying is, irrespective of that, this is their archetype.
Not quite, because of his lack of strength, but you could make the argument.
I agree with the part about bigs. It's hard for me to imagine any two of those four being on the court at the same time, at least as part of a lineup that's even close to decent.
Zollins would have to both get healthy and hit a good percentage of his threes to even think about sharing the court with another big, and both of those are unlikely at this point.
i hope to see landale and eubanks rotating 10-12 minutes each with carte blanche to be as physical and disruptive as they can be. 5 fouls each per game.
how is it KBD’s archetype though when he was quite effective as the 3 (or using your terms, cf)? I don’t think it had anything to do with the cir stances to the roster… i think they saw his strengths and intentionally put him there. Anyway, all moot point since we’re probably wasting our breath on a guy who won’t be here…
anyway, Lonnie has no business playing wing with how lackluster his defense is. Not a critique of your assignment on him, he did play that role for the team and was abused on the defensive end over and over.
I know there's a push to use "modern" terms but the number system still is easier and clearer. Your modern way was a noble approach but it just created seven or eight different positions -- and that's not even enough to define every playertype. Sticking with numbers and ordering the numbers starting with the preferred position remains a superior way to do it, IMO. You don't even have to define the numbers. Yes, everyone knows today's 4s aren't the rugged/no-offene 4s of yesteryear -- there's no reason for 4s to have sub groups.
Positions by number:
1 Jones
1/2 Murray
1/2/3 White
2/1 Forbes
2/1 Primo
2/3 Walker
3/2 Vassell
3 Wieskamp
3/4 McDermott
3/4 Bates-Diop
4/3 Johnson
4 Aminu
4/5 Young
4/5 Samanic
5/4 Collins
5 Poeltl
5 Eubanks
5 Landale
^ good list. Similar to how I have it albeit a few changes
Roster
1 Tre Jones
1/2 Dejounte Murray
1/2 Derrick White
2 Bryn Forbes
2 Lonnie Walker
2/3 Devin Vassell
2/3 Josh Primo
3 Joe Wieskamp
3/4 Doug McDermott
3/4 Keita Bates Diop
4/3 Keldon Johnson
4 Luka Samanic
4 Al-Farouq Aminu
4/5 Thaddeus Young
5/4 Zach Collins
5 Jakob Poeltl
5 Jock Landale
5 Drew Eubanks
My tweaks
Who will get the ball in the money time ? DW ?
DW doesn’t really have any ISO moves, but he is an excellent team player and could be the guy who the ball gets passed to when the defense gets broken down for a clutch 3 a la Patty Mills last season
IMO, it will be between DJ, Lonnie, Vassell
Others can become that option if they developed their game: Tre, Keldon
Maybe this modern ball ideology does not fit these players and is a major reason why we play so badly. Go old school, run the beautiful game offense and bad boy or bruise brothers defense.
I know that might be a strange opinion, but: What about passing the ball?
ISO move doesn’t mean taking the shot. It could lead to different results, thats why I mentioned DW in the first paragraph. ISO move is breaking down your defender and then doing whatever is next that is necessary. Example: ISO move > pass to White for a clutch 3.
Dejounte is clearly the closer next year
I do think there’s utility to archetypal designations and from a rotational standpoint it’s more useful than writing out a “depth chart” by numerical position
:
1 Bryn Forbes
2 Bryn Forbes
3 Bryn Forbes
4 Bryn Forbes
5 Bryn Forbes
White was far and away the best iso scorer out of the guys still left on the team. Then it's Lonnie, Murray and Keldon, but they are far behind. I'm hoping it's Primo soon. He has great iso potential.
Iso? DJ is the only one who really did it last year aside from Demar. Barely any iso possesions from the other guys.
seriously. Not sure where chinook gets the idea from that White is an ISO scorer. White makes smart reads (like if theres an open lane, he’ll go for the easy layup), timely passes, and plays within the team. He doesnt have an advanced dribble, a first step, etc to break down his man. He’s a pick and pop guy. Not a bad thing, he’s a really good player.
Last edited by Dejounte; 08-13-2021 at 10:44 AM.
Starters:
G - Dejounte
G - D. White
C - Poetl
F - Keldon
F - McDermott
2nd Unit
G - T. Jones
G - Forbes
G - Walker
G/F - Vassell
C - Landale
C - Eubanks
F - Young
F - Samanic
F - Diop
Out -
Z. Collins
Aminu
G League -
Primo
Wieskamp
When you lay it out, there just aren't enough minutes to go around. Primo and Wieskamp won't see action this season. Even if you count Aminu and Collins as out with injury, I still don't see how Vassell, Walker and Samanic are going to get much run. Put Aminu and/or Collins in the rotation and it only gets worse.
You would have to think the Spurs are still looking to deal. Not sure what you do with this roster, unless it's just a matter of some of the young guys getting no run at all.
To me, it also sure looks like Thad Young is a guy who's going to be needed for his size/strength and veteran presence. Unless we're trading him for another big body, I don't the Spurs moving him. Forbes, and hopefully White are the primary three point shooting off the bench. So, unfortunately, I don't know how Forbes won't be a fixture with the second unit. I see Pop making him our sixth man.....fvck!
Walker and Samanic need some run if they’re going to have a career. But if they come out not ready, I can see Samanic getting the Metu treatment, which is bad. I really have these two with the highest upside with their athleticism.
Vassell can hang his hat on his defense. They just want him to not be shy to send it. He needs a good Summer League to build confidence.
I’m still hoping we’re not done yet with our current roster.
Agreed. But Forbes is going to steal a lot of those minutes. I just don't see Pop resisting the urge to tap into Forbes' shooting potential. It sucks for those guys, because instead of letting them develop, I'm fairly certain we're going to see their minutes going to a guy who's already met his ceiling.
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