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  1. #251
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    People here are insane. Simmons is not solely a defensive player. He is a high level playmaker and a good overall scorer. I don't know how fixable his jumper is, but I'd bet Chip could get it to passable, like he did with Kawhi and TP. I remember several years in the league and teams backed off Tony and he couldn't shoot to save his life. But several years into the league he started to hit that midrange. I'm pretty confident that Simmons could get to that point. The fact that we could potentially get him for a bunch of our late round picks would be a steal. He is elite at everything except outside shooting. People are undervaluing the ultimate buy low candidate.

  2. #252
    プリモが一番露出狂 baseline bum's Avatar
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    Marc Stein's podcast is the closest thing we have...
    How legit a source is Stein considered these days after leaving ESPN? I seem to remember him being one of early sources to collaborate LeBron returning ro Cleveland, though it was another former ESPN guy that broke the story.

  3. #253
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    People here are insane. Simmons is not solely a defensive player. He is a high level playmaker and a good overall scorer. I don't know how fixable his jumper is, but I'd bet Chip could get it to passable, like he did with Kawhi and TP. I remember several years in the league and teams backed off Tony and he couldn't shoot to save his life. But several years into the league he started to hit that midrange. I'm pretty confident that Simmons could get to that point. The fact that we could potentially get him for a bunch of our late round picks would be a steal. He is elite at everything except outside shooting. People are undervaluing the ultimate buy low candidate.
    No, I donít think you realize how little Simmons shoots past 10 ft from the basket vs how much TP & Kawhi used to do it. They arenít even in the same playing field. The latter did it in a frequency where Chip could make it workable. Like, I donít think people understand how little Simmons shoots it from outside the paint.

    its Poeltl-level frequency for Simmons.

  4. #254
    プリモが一番露出狂 baseline bum's Avatar
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    People here are insane. Simmons is not solely a defensive player. He is a high level playmaker and a good overall scorer. I don't know how fixable his jumper is, but I'd bet Chip could get it to passable, like he did with Kawhi and TP. I remember several years in the league and teams backed off Tony and he couldn't shoot to save his life. But several years into the league he started to hit that midrange. I'm pretty confident that Simmons could get to that point. The fact that we could potentially get him for a bunch of our late round picks would be a steal. He is elite at everything except outside shooting. People are undervaluing the ultimate buy low candidate.
    If I was confident Chip could get his shot to passable, even a little below average, I'd be good completely gutting the roster to get him, because he'd be a yearly top 5 MVP candidate in that case. But I don't trust his work ethic so wouldn't offer a ton to get him. We know Chip fixed Tony's and Kawhi's completely broken shots, but both of them had pretty strong work ethics ( Kawhi's is legendary as much of a head as he is).

  5. #255
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    How legit a source is Stein considered these days after leaving ESPN? I seem to remember him being one of early sources to collaborate LeBron returning ro Cleveland, though it was another former ESPN guy that broke the story.
    I think he's still pretty good from the standpoint that I don't think he's makes stuff up to throw against the wall and see if it sticks... I'm not sure if he's as connected as he once was though..

  6. #256
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    6' 11" point guard with speed, strength, DPOY candidate, elite playmaking skills, great handles at a bargain-basement price. Just turned 25.

    This is what I see with Simmons. There are risks/downsides to every player. His upside is elite. Definitely worth making a run for him.

    I do not see the Spurs trading DJ right after his sister passes away, however.

  7. #257
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    10588259[/URL]]6' 11" point guard with speed, strength, DPOY candidate, elite playmaking skills, great handles at a bargain-basement price. Just turned 25.

    This is what I see with Simmons. There are risks/downsides to every player. His upside is elite. Definitely worth making a run for him.

    I do not see the Spurs trading DJ right after his sister passes away, however.
    What is a bargain basement price?

  8. #258
    Veteran ginobilized's Avatar
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    What is a bargain basement price?
    His market value is at a low point and the Sixers are losing leverage every week he remains untraded.
    Thatís what I meant by bargain basement price for Simmons. 2 years ago, heíd be completely unattainable.

  9. #259
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    6' 11" point guard with speed, strength, DPOY candidate, elite playmaking skills, great handles at a bargain-basement price. Just turned 25.

    This is what I see with Simmons. There are risks/downsides to every player. His upside is elite. Definitely worth making a run for him.

    I do not see the Spurs trading DJ right after his sister passes away, however.
    They would trade him tomorrow in the right deal. I donít see it coming to that, though. Philly will drag this our, hoping to snag Lillard. That wonít happen for probably a month. Dame hasnít asked for a trade. Unless he does, nothing will happen.

  10. #260
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    Some people don't understand half the roster would need to be shipped out to accomodate Simmons.
    Wrote about it a couple of times, but let's try again.

    Last season's starting lineup of DJ-White-Keldon-DDR-Jakob probably had the worst spacing in the league.
    And Demar has Curry range compared to Simmons.

    None of them were respectable 3pt threats except for Derrick.
    And since Simmons is a complete non-threat outside of restricted area, we'd need at least two great 3pt shooters in the lineup and two decent ones.

    Poeltl would have to go, no question about it. A shooting big would be a must. Not someone who can hit a 3 here and there, but a legit threat that needs to be contested on the perimeter.
    I assume Keldon is the only untouchable guy and starting him with Simmons would make it really tough to create a decent starting lineup.

    Something like White-McDermott-Keldon-Simmons-X would be a must.
    Or even Lonnie instead of White if both him and DJ are out and Lonnie stays.
    Knowing Pop, it would probably be Forbes starting.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm also intrigued by potential Simmons trade if Sixers get desperate and we get a bargain.

    But the worst part is his lack of work ethic and right mentality.
    He's one of those players who still think they're en led to something just because they were a huge prospect.

    His shot can be fixed, that's the easy part, but he seems like someone who is content with collecting the paychecks while doing the bare minimum.
    Young socialite, gtfo. And he'd bolt to LA or NY asap.

  11. #261
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Some people don't understand half the roster would need to be shipped out to accomodate Simmons.
    .
    Correct.

    You'd think they'd invest more into strong-in-transition players with the moves they've made so far, if they planned on getting Simmons.

    Poeltl is far from one (sure, they could include him in the trade package)
    Landale doesn't scream as one either.
    Is Collins going to run back and forth with those feet?
    As far as our perimeter players go, only McDermott is someone who could run and gun with Simmons on the run. The others' 3-point shooting aren't proven yet, but they could get there.

  12. #262
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    Sorry but we just don't have the really good players or combined salaries and players that Philly would demand for their prima donna. Right now he's Philly's problem and it will become a bigger problem as the new season draws closer. Even with all their other talent, he is still a big problem.
    Don't let them gut our team and our future so he can become the spurs problem.

  13. #263
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    Some people don't understand half the roster would need to be shipped out to accomodate Simmons.
    Wrote about it a couple of times, but let's try again.

    Last season's starting lineup of DJ-White-Keldon-DDR-Jakob probably had the worst spacing in the league.
    And Demar has Curry range compared to Simmons.

    None of them were respectable 3pt threats except for Derrick.
    And since Simmons is a complete non-threat outside of restricted area, we'd need at least two great 3pt shooters in the lineup and two decent ones.

    Poeltl would have to go, no question about it. A shooting big would be a must. Not someone who can hit a 3 here and there, but a legit threat that needs to be contested on the perimeter.
    I assume Keldon is the only untouchable guy and starting him with Simmons would make it really tough to create a decent starting lineup.

    Something like White-McDermott-Keldon-Simmons-X would be a must.
    Or even Lonnie instead of White if both him and DJ are out and Lonnie stays.
    Knowing Pop, it would probably be Forbes starting.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm also intrigued by potential Simmons trade if Sixers get desperate and we get a bargain.

    But the worst part is his lack of work ethic and right mentality.
    He's one of those players who still think they're en led to something just because they were a huge prospect.

    His shot can be fixed, that's the easy part, but he seems like someone who is content with collecting the paychecks while doing the bare minimum.
    Young socialite, gtfo. And he'd bolt to LA or NY asap.
    Well people bag on our GM and I'm not saying I have 100% confidence, but we have exactly the kind of pieces that can be put in a trade to form a team that would work well for Simmons. And for the record, I acknowledge that getting Simmons is a risk, and an expensive one given what he is paid. But in sports, you have to take risks if you want to build another championship team. To me, it makes sense if you believe Pop is going to try and make the playoffs regardless. If the Spurs were willing to just play young players and lose games and get into the real lottery, then I would be okay with that. However, we all know the Spurs are going to be that classic win just enough games to end up with the 11-14 picks and barely miss the playoffs. If that's the case, then take a swing at Simmons and see what happens.

  14. #264
    Believe. Larry O's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=baseline bum;10588205]If I was confident Chip could get his shot to passable, even a little below average, I'd be good completely gutting the roster to get him, because he'd be a yearly top 5 MVP candidate in that case. But I don't trust his work ethic so wouldn't offer a ton to get him. We know Chip fixed Tony's and Kawhi's completely broken shots, but both of them had pretty strong work ethics ( Kawhi's is legendary as much of a head as he is).

    Here's a story from Bleacher Report about the "Race For Simmons," and how GS, Minn, Sac Town and SA, are all in the mix, with Minn being a serious contender. Philly is hoping that Lillard will change his mind and ask for a trade before the start of the season to join the Sixers. In the article, it was quoted that Chip mentioned that he would love to get ahold of Simmons and help him with his shooting woes. Don't know if we should read into that or not, perhaps Chip knowing the Simmons situation, perhaps he is giving his two cents about the situation, or else, he just leaked some "Spurs intel" to the public. In the end, something's gotta give, and Simmons will eventually end up somewhere. This could easily turn out to be a Harden situation, perhaps, but Simmons to SA may have quick fix implications to get us into the playoffs (and Pop's all time coaching record, too), and have "star power," but our future may suffer if we give up a youngin' or two, plus future draft picks. The potential and opportunity is there, but I think that at the end of the day, the Spurs may drop out of the race. GSG!!!

  15. #265
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    [QUOTE=Larry O;10588349]
    If I was confident Chip could get his shot to passable, even a little below average, I'd be good completely gutting the roster to get him, because he'd be a yearly top 5 MVP candidate in that case. But I don't trust his work ethic so wouldn't offer a ton to get him. We know Chip fixed Tony's and Kawhi's completely broken shots, but both of them had pretty strong work ethics ( Kawhi's is legendary as much of a head as he is).

    Here's a story from Bleacher Report about the "Race For Simmons," and how GS, Minn, Sac Town and SA, are all in the mix, with Minn being a serious contender. Philly is hoping that Lillard will change his mind and ask for a trade before the start of the season to join the Sixers. In the article, it was quoted that Chip mentioned that he would love to get ahold of Simmons and help him with his shooting woes. Don't know if we should read into that or not, perhaps Chip knowing the Simmons situation, perhaps he is giving his two cents about the situation, or else, he just leaked some "Spurs intel" to the public. In the end, something's gotta give, and Simmons will eventually end up somewhere. This could easily turn out to be a Harden situation, perhaps, but Simmons to SA may have quick fix implications to get us into the playoffs (and Pop's all time coaching record, too), and have "star power," but our future may suffer if we give up a youngin' or two, plus future draft picks. The potential and opportunity is there, but I think that at the end of the day, the Spurs may drop out of the race. GSG!!!
    Damn, I have to give it to Morey, he's going to get a haul for Simmons. GS, Minn, Sac, and SA all have assets to spend on him. GS and Min in particular can give some nice returns depending on what they are willing to trade. I just know its going to look better than the return the Spurs got for Kawhi. I know that's a factor of the "injury", the trade demand to LA, and the fact that Kawhi only had two years on his contract, yes, that gave him more power to tie up the Spurs to a bad deal, but still.

  16. #266
    Veteran ginobilized's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Larry O;10588349]
    If I was confident Chip could get his shot to passable, even a little below average, I'd be good completely gutting the roster to get him, because he'd be a yearly top 5 MVP candidate in that case. But I don't trust his work ethic so wouldn't offer a ton to get him. We know Chip fixed Tony's and Kawhi's completely broken shots, but both of them had pretty strong work ethics ( Kawhi's is legendary as much of a head as he is).

    Here's a story from Bleacher Report about the "Race For Simmons," and how GS, Minn, Sac Town and SA, are all in the mix, with Minn being a serious contender. Philly is hoping that Lillard will change his mind and ask for a trade before the start of the season to join the Sixers. In the article, it was quoted that Chip mentioned that he would love to get ahold of Simmons and help him with his shooting woes. Don't know if we should read into that or not, perhaps Chip knowing the Simmons situation, perhaps he is giving his two cents about the situation, or else, he just leaked some "Spurs intel" to the public. In the end, something's gotta give, and Simmons will eventually end up somewhere. This could easily turn out to be a Harden situation, perhaps, but Simmons to SA may have quick fix implications to get us into the playoffs (and Pop's all time coaching record, too), and have "star power," but our future may suffer if we give up a youngin' or two, plus future draft picks. The potential and opportunity is there, but I think that at the end of the day, the Spurs may drop out of the race. GSG!!!
    Would Simmons replace Draymond on GS? That might be scary.

  17. #267
    Believe. Larry O's Avatar
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    Sorry, but here's the story on Chip from the Bleacher Report:

    Bleacher Report:
    NBA
    New Details Emerge on Ben Simmons Trade Talks
    JAKE FISCHER

    AUGUST 17, 2021
    FILE - Philadelphia 76ers' Ben Simmons plays during Game 5 in a first-round NBA basketball playoff series against the Washington Wizards, in Philadelphia, in this Wednesday, June 2, 2021, file photo. Ben Simmons can't shoot and lost his confidence. He blamed a mental block on the worst free-throw shooting percentage in NBA playoff history. The 76ers head into the offseason faced with a big question - do they try and salvage Simmons or deal the former No. 1 pick. (AP Photo/Matt Slo , File)
    Matt Slo /Associated Press

    Among many talking points between team personnel during the NBA's Las Vegas Summer League, the ongoing trade speculation regarding Ben Simmons potentially leaving the Philadelphia 76ers was still top of mind this past week.

    Each of Minnesota, Golden State, Sacramento and San Antonio has been consistently linked as a top Simmons destination, yet the overwhelming sense among league insiders continues to be that Simmons, for now, is expected to remain a Sixer once training camp opens on September 28—barring a change of temperature with Damian Lillard in Portland.

    That appears to be the ever-important undercurrent to what has been routinely described as a "James Harden-like" package Philadelphia is seeking for any Simmons return.

    For the Sixers and president Daryl Morey to move Simmons, it will be with an eye toward maximizing the prime of Joel Embiid, who signed a $196 million, 4-year extension Monday night. Therefore trading Simmons now for anything short of a haul that could immediately be flipped for Lillard, in the event he does request a trade, would be a devastating blow for Philadelphia's front office, and their efforts to pair Embiid with a bonafide superstar.

    But that Lillard request may not be coming anytime soon.

    There's certainly a possibility Lillard arrives at training camp, looks around Portland's locker room and determines the Trail Blazers roster has not been upgraded to his satisfaction. Yet there's a stronger belief in league circles that Lillard will at least venture into the regular season under new head coach Chauncey Billups, allowing him to revisit moving elsewhere before the trade deadline.

    Craig Mitc dyer/Associated Press
    Simmons, on the other hand, appears more than interested in playing for a new team. He expects to be traded and has not personally been in close contact with Morey, Embiid or head coach Doc Rivers this offseason, sources told Bleacher Report. Simmons' representation has further canvassed rival front offices, gauging their interest in creating a new home for the 25-year-old All-Star and this year's runner-up in Defensive Player of the Year.

    But it would be difficult for Cleveland, for example, to come up with an offer that can both pair Simmons with another Klutch Sports client in Darius Garland while also satisfying the Sixers' lofty asking.
    Sacramento has no real avenue to land Simmons without sacrificing De'Aaron Fox. The Kings' star guard has drawn varying evaluations during B/R conversations around the league, but his value certainly appears higher than Simmons' at the moment.

    Dating back to Morey's tenure running Houston, he has traditionally begun trade talks with offers that his counterparts deem outlandish as a means to set an extreme parameter for the ongoing negotiation. This year, several rival executives told Bleacher Report they believe part of Philadelphia's calculus behind those unrealistic offers has also been to assure Simmons' camp that the Sixers are at least attempting to move him.

    Toronto, though, was never going to entertain a framework of acquiring Simmons for OG Anunoby, Fred VanVleet and the No. 4 pick, which Philadelphia pitched the weekend before July's NBA draft.

    And rumors that a three-team swap between Philadelphia, Golden State and Portland was gaining legitimate traction were categorically denied by Warriors and Blazers personnel. Golden State brass are considered to be quite high on the team's recent lottery picks Jonathan Kuminga and Moses Moody.


    Jeff Chiu/Associated Press
    Minnesota officials remain motivated in landing Simmons. That would be nothing short of a home run fulfilling the Timberwolves' ongoing search for a starting forward, and Simmons could do so in a playmaking role similar to Draymond Green. But it would be challenging for Minnesota to send back enough talent for Philly to reroute in a hypothetical Lillard pursuit, while still adding Simmons to a rising young Minnesota core.

    That leaves San Antonio as perhaps the most interesting potential trade partner. And there is a faction of the Spurs front office rumored to strongly covet Simmons.


    There's a well-do ented history of Gregg Popovich incorporating Australian talent such as Patty Mills, Aron Baynes and others, along with New Zealander Sean Marks, not to mention the connection with former Spurs assistant and Simmons' first head coach, Brett Brown.

    Personnel who spent time with Team USA during the Tokyo Olympics also suggested to B/R that longtime Spurs shooting czar Chip Engelland would relish the opportunity to rework Simmons' mechanics, just as the noted assistant coach ironed out Kawhi Leonard's jump shot and others before him.

    San Antonio was open to discussing Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV before the draft, sources said, and the Spurs added more enticing future draft capital in their sign-and-trade that delivered DeMar DeRozan to Chicago. Could the starting points of that package be enough to truly intrigue Philly? Portland's eventual interest, as always, would factor heavily into any further discussions, too.

    Again, all these variables likely point to Simmons sticking around Philadelphia for the foreseeable future.

    There could always be an unforeseen team that emerges in the eleventh hour of this offseason to chase Simmons. Yet the NBA's summer activity has quieted. Most teams are focused on filling out their final roster spots, looking for a fourth point guard or a rangy wing to stash on their bench.

    Despite the awkward dynamic that could follow, Simmons may have no real choice but to join the Sixers in September and play his way to a new destination, regardless of the icy communication that has persisted all summer, dating back to Rivers' and Embiid's post-Game 7 press conferences.


    Whether Simmons is amenable to that of course remains to be seen, but Philadelphia appears prepared for that outcome. Said one veteran front office voice, "Daryl is not afraid to go into training camp with a potentially combustible situation."

  18. #268
    プリモが一番露出狂 baseline bum's Avatar
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    Sixers should just hold on to Simmons and pray he doesn't hold out, they're not going to get for him.

  19. #269
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=cd98;10588351]

    Damn, I have to give it to Morey, he's going to get a haul for Simmons. GS, Minn, Sac, and SA all have assets to spend on him. GS and Min in particular can give some nice returns depending on what they are willing to trade. I just know its going to look better than the return the Spurs got for Kawhi. I know that's a factor of the "injury", the trade demand to LA, and the fact that Kawhi only had two years on his contract, yes, that gave him more power to tie up the Spurs to a bad deal, but still.
    Except Golden State and San Antonio aren't interested in all. Don't believ Marc Stein's bull about San Antonio. He's getting paid to generate interest in Simmons. Golden State? What the about Golden State makes you think they'd want Simmons? Have you seen them play, like, ever?

    Simmons will wind up at Minnesota or possibly Sacramento. If he goes to the Wolves no one will ever hear from him again and suddenly he's not even an All-Star anymore. Philly elevated him. If he goes to Sacramento, he'll be more visible but will also fail to make a bad franchise any better.

  20. #270
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    Some people don't understand half the roster would need to be shipped out to accomodate Simmons.
    No. Half of last year's roster, maybe. But most of that's already gone. The only player you have to really consider trading if Simmons were on the team is Murray. Even Poeltl, who's a dubious fit, can hang around for a while to see if they can IQ their way to enough spacing. But we're talking about a lottery team that lost its best player. I don't really care if a lot of guys need to go from that. They aren't worth keeping if they can't space the floor, since they damned sure aren't good enough to have other guys space for them.

    I think people should realize that the Spurs have very little to build on now. There are a couple of players to not trade, but for the most part they'd be moving guys they can and will regardless have to replace with the draft anyway. The Spurs can afford to make a decent trade for Simmons, have it not work out, abort, and still keep going. Them losing Vassell or Keldon or whatever isn't going to actually hold them back. I think we all agree that there's a limit to what the Spurs should be willing to trade, but too many people here have a really low bar for what's too much. So long as they keep their top prospect and remain flexible for future moves, there's no reason not to make a trade.

  21. #271
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    lol the same exact thing could've been said about Jakob Poeltl's FT shooting but somehow y'all love the guy. Didn't he shoot 34% for half of the season and then got his percentage back up? You're overreacting here. I mean I doubt Ben Simmons will become a 3-point shooter, but him improving his FT% is a realistic thing
    Yeah, the same thing could be said about Poeltl, and was absolutely said all over the forum where he had that awful FT-shooting stretch and was getting Hack-a-Jak'd to close out games. Literally happened last season and was a big thing.

    Then he got his head in the game and improved his FTs significantly, to the point that he wasn't such a big liability as to get purposefully hacked again. Could he get in his own head again if we were playing high stakes, playoff games? Absolutely - but I'm not condemning him until it actually happens. For Simmons, it's literally happened already, in literally every single series the Sixers played last year. You've already crossed the bridge of "could it happen". He doesn't get that benefit of the doubt.

    But the biggest factor that nullifies your comparison, is the positions they play. Jakob is an old-school center, borderline starter. It's not the biggest deal if he misses his FTs because you're not relying on him as much; and he's paid likewise. Simmons is your starting PG, a position where FT shooting is absolutely critical, not only due to the amount of ball-handling and offense-initiating demanded of the position, which means he'll get to the line considerably more than a low-usage C would, but because you want your starting PG to be able to draw fouls. It's literally a point of emphasis for modern PGs to master the foul-drawing techniques and add to their games (and stats) this way. And Simmons.... Literally shies away from contact in order to not get fouled. Massively hampering his game (his iconic non-dunk last season was a direct result of overpassing because he thought he'd be getting fouled on the dunk attempt).

    Oh, and he's due something like ONE HUNDRED FORTY MILLION DOLLARS. For a player you can't even rely on to make his FTs. . Yeah, I'll stick to Jakob and his $9M/per for that kind of antics, thanks...

  22. #272
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Some people don't understand half the roster would need to be shipped out to accomodate Simmons.
    Wrote about it a couple of times, but let's try again.
    Yeah, the Spurs are too savvy to throw all their eggs in one basket (especially one like Simmons).

    Simmons would be a great acquisition for a team that doesn't have the personnel and development prowess of the Spurs. Go for the star, it's the common denominator, it's your best hope. Try to get fortunate with the one guy everyone acknowledges as talented.

    The Spurs are more like the guy at the poker table who knows he will be there all night. Counting on the odds over time to favor his chances. Knowing that time is on his side.

    You want to have enough irons in the fire to be blessed by good fortune, but you don't want to make the one big mistake that sets you back five years.

    The Spurs will probably suck this year but, at the same time, their future at least promises to be promising.

    Good young players just get better -- that's the thing that many of us miss.

  23. #273
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    Sixers should just hold on to Simmons and pray he doesn't hold out, they're not going to get for him.
    Itís not looking good for them.

    If Iím Spurs Iíve put in a healthy opening offer (maybe they already did around the draft) and now just seeing if PHI comes back to the table in Dec hopefully in a worse position. Let Minni and others be desperate for now.

  24. #274
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    Ben Simmons would not want to stay in San Antonio... the big markets is where he likes to be.

  25. #275
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    I’m firm with Sa trading ….just not thrilled with Simmons.

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