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  1. #1001
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    Correct me if if I'm wrong here....

    Doc after Philly lost in playoffs: Simmons sucks, we're not winning him.

    Philly Fans: He's right you know.

    Simmons: Well fine, ing trade me.

    .....

    Doc when Training camp starts: Why isn't Simmons here? We've done nothing but love him and have always wanted him to stay.

    Philly Fans: Why isn't Simmons here? ING BUM!
    tbh

  2. #1002
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    This feels like a turning point in future CBA discussions. Absolutely deplorable behaviour by Simmons. As an Australian and an avid basketball fan, I hate to think of the future ramifications to this. This guy needs the Ben Affleck to Matt Damon speech from ĎGood Will Huntingí.
    Yeah, because this is a big market team that matters. When it was just the Spurs, Pelicans, Thunder, and Rockets getting ed over no big deal, but now that it's a big market east coast glamor team?

  3. #1003
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    There are too many divas in the NBA who think they can sign these huge contracts then leave their old team sitting in the dust. Kawhi falls into that category, but at the least the Spurs were smart enough not to give him the bag as he burned all his bridges.
    There's always the chance that Number Two would have done the same Simmons is doing if the Spurs had given him the supermax. It is quite possible that the Spurs got as much out of that situation as they were ever going to.

  4. #1004
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Other than this CBA bull , I can’t envision a scenario where a party refused to provide goods or services worth tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars and wasn’t immediately sued. It’s comical that the NBA appropriated a collective bargaining model from blue collar workers to coddle multimillionaire athletes who refuse to honor their contract. There’s nothing in that contract that prevents Doc from being a sucker or Morey from being a . Maybe Simmons should have negotiated an out for disparagement or some such. But he didn’t. He’s just a coddled get collecting checks for doing nothing. Absolutely disgusting.

  5. #1005
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    Yeah, because this is a big market team that matters. When it was just the Spurs, Pelicans, Thunder, and Rockets getting ed over no big deal, but now that it's a big market east coast glamor team?
    Ben Simmons is a player who isn’t even a top 20 guy in the league, is paid the max and is contractually obligated for 4 years.
    I see some of the overlap with some of the cases you referenced, but to me, this feels unprecedented.

  6. #1006
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    For all the talk of Daryl Morey being such an analytics guy, he sure wagered a bunch on Westbrook and Simmons, two horrendous shooters who justify one sportswriter's take on Morey as "a guy who prizes talent over chemistry." Those are two guys I would never want on my team.

  7. #1007
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    Ben Simmons is a player who isn’t even a top 20 guy in the league, is paid the max and is contractually obligated for 4 years.
    I see some of the overlap with some of the cases you referenced, but to me, this feels unprecedented.
    He is right at about 20. I think espn had him at 28. And i think certain players should be lower. Also he is on a rookie max. Totally different to a vet max.

  8. #1008
    Fan Since 1973 Twisted_Dawg's Avatar
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    Correct me if if I'm wrong here....

    Doc after Philly lost in playoffs: Simmons sucks, we're not winning him.

    Philly Fans: He's right you know.

    Simmons: Well fine, ing trade me.

    .....

    Doc and Philly fans when Training camp starts: Why isn't Simmons here? We've done nothing but love him and have always wanted him to stay.
    Didn't Embiid take a on Simmons too?

  9. #1009
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    For all the talk of Daryl Morey being such an analytics guy, he sure wagered a bunch on Westbrook and Simmons, two horrendous shooters who justify one sportswriter's take on Morey as "a guy who prizes talent over chemistry." Those are two guys I would never want on my team.
    Duress, again. Harden wanted CP3 gone, and the only way to trade an untradeable contract is for another one. Not sure why you’re bringing Simmons into this mix. He was already in Philly when Morey arrived.

  10. #1010
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    Duress, again. Harden wanted CP3 gone, and the only way to trade an untradeable contract is for another one. Not sure why you’re bringing Simmons into this mix. He was already in Philly when Morey arrived.

    Ironically a CP3 for Simmons trade would probably be best for both teams. Fits PHX’s youth timeline very well and give Morey/Philly more 3 point shooting.

  11. #1011
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Ironically a CP3 for Simmons trade would probably be best for both teams. Fits PHX’s youth timeline very well and give Morey/Philly more 3 point shooting.
    I think PHX would regress without CP3 and with BS perhaps not being happy. But I think Philly likes the move more.

  12. #1012
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Ironically a CP3 for Simmons trade would probably be best for both teams. Fits PHX’s youth timeline very well and give Morey/Philly more 3 point shooting.
    Yeah, but Morey would never do it. Fit is good, but he’s way too old. CP3s sell by date is probably next summer.

  13. #1013
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    Ironically a CP3 for Simmons trade would probably be best for both teams. Fits PHX’s youth timeline very well and give Morey/Philly more 3 point shooting.

    A team of the injury prone. Wonder if Embid and CP3 would clash.

    Plus with success of Phoenix last year, no way phoenix does that trade

  14. #1014
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    Still donít think a Spurs offer isnít bad at all. DJ or White, Thad, prospect on a rookie deal, draft compensation, isnít bad at all. Adds a lot of depth. DJ or White defense will be needed when they lose their best defender. Lillard is terrible defender. While you still have Tobias Harris, Embiid as your primary scorers.

  15. #1015
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Still don’t think a Spurs offer isn’t bad at all. DJ or White, Thad, prospect on a rookie deal, draft compensation, isn’t bad at all. Adds a lot of depth. DJ or White defense will be needed when they lose their best defender. Lillard is terrible defender. While you still have Tobias Harris, Embiid as your primary scorers.
    Lillard isn’t even in discussion. , they won’t even offer McCollum.

  16. #1016
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Ironically a CP3 for Simmons trade would probably be best for both teams. Fits PHX’s youth timeline very well and give Morey/Philly more 3 point shooting.
    Phoenix would instantly no longer be championship contenders.

  17. #1017
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Still don’t think a Spurs offer isn’t bad at all. DJ or White, Thad, prospect on a rookie deal, draft compensation, isn’t bad at all. Adds a lot of depth. DJ or White defense will be needed when they lose their best defender. Lillard is terrible defender. While you still have Tobias Harris, Embiid as your primary scorers.
    Simmons is a horrible fit on the Spurs, absolutely awful. And that's before getting into what a locker room whacko headcase he is.

  18. #1018
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Well seems like Morey would rather sit on Simmons than give him away cheap, so time for the Spurs to move on and see what the trade market for Young looks like.

  19. #1019
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Not sure why you’re bringing Simmons into this mix. He was already in Philly when Morey arrived.
    Right, but he seemed intent on keeping him before this current situation developed.

  20. #1020
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Right, but he seemed intent on keeping him before this current situation developed.
    One of only two real assets. You can’t be that fussy about what you inherit.

    In reality, though, Simmons advanced numbers kill. Even without a jump shot, 54% of his FG attempts are 0-3 ft, which means he gets to the rack easily anyways, and also finishes those at 71.6%, career.

    He’s played 4 seasons:

    2 Seasons in the NBA top 20 for:
    Total rebounds
    Rebounds per game
    Defensive rebounds
    Drtg
    Box +/-

    3 seasons in the NBA top 20 for:
    Steals/GM
    VORP
    def box+/-

    4 seasons in the NBA top 20 for:
    Assists
    Assists/GM
    Steals
    FG%
    DWS
    Assist%
    Triple doubles

  21. #1021
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    One of only two real assets. You canít be that fussy about what you inherit.

    In reality, though, Simmons advanced numbers kill. Even without a jump shot, 54% of his FG attempts are 0-3 ft, which means he gets to the rack easily anyways, and also finishes those at 71.6%, career.

    Heís played 4 seasons:

    2 Seasons in the NBA top 20 for:
    Total rebounds
    Rebounds per game
    Defensive rebounds
    Drtg
    Box +/-

    3 seasons in the NBA top 20 for:
    Steals/GM
    VORP
    def box+/-

    4 seasons in the NBA top 20 for:
    Assists
    Assists/GM
    Steals
    FG%
    DWS
    Assist%
    Triple doubles
    I can see both sides of the debate, but I think there's an argument to be made that he becomes a greater liability in the playoffs against good teams-- in a way that doesn't manifest itself in the regular season, and there are certain metrics like Fivethirtyeight.com's various RAPTOR ratings that put him more as a top 40 or top 50 player rather than a top 10 or 20... I think there's no question that he'll add wins to an average team-- like an Allen Iverson, Dominique Wilkens, Carmelo Anthony-- but for me he's also likely the main reason you can't/don't win a championship. Also, his VORP and BPM have gone steadily down in his four years, which is really unusual, and might indicate that opposing coaches and defenses have figured him out to a certain extent and he hasn't had the ability (or desire?) to adjust to their adjustments.

  22. #1022
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    I can see both sides of the debate, but I think there's an argument to be made that he becomes a greater liability in the playoffs against good teams-- in a way that doesn't manifest itself in the regular season, and there are certain metrics like Fivethirtyeight.com's various RAPTOR ratings that put him more as a top 40 or top 50 player rather than a top 10 or 20... I think there's no question that he'll add wins to an average team-- like an Allen Iverson, Dominique Wilkens, Carmelo Anthony-- but for me he's also likely the main reason you can't/don't win a championship. Also, his VORP and BPM have gone steadily down in his four years, which is really unusual, and might indicate that opposing coaches and defenses have figured him out to a certain extent and he hasn't had the ability (or desire?) to adjust to their adjustments.
    That's not really an argument against the Spurs trading for him imo. The Spurs are nowhere close to a championship team, and clearly aren't interested in tanking. If getting Simmons meant the Spurs would be a clear playoff team and have a decent chance of making the second round (3/4/5/6 seed), that would be a huge upgrade from the present.

    Of course, all of this depends on what the Spurs would have to give up. But I can't quite understand the "don't want Simmons at any cost" camp.

  23. #1023
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    That's not really an argument against the Spurs trading for him imo. The Spurs are nowhere close to a championship team, and clearly aren't interested in tanking. If getting Simmons meant the Spurs would be a clear playoff team and have a decent chance of making the second round (3/4/5/6 seed), that would be a huge upgrade from the present.

    Of course, all of this depends on what the Spurs would have to give up. But I can't quite understand the "don't want Simmons at any cost" camp.
    Au contraire - I'd say the camp that's hard to understand is yours, aka the "plug and unplug" camp.

    Basketball is a team sport, a mental sport, a cohesiveness and camaraderie and continuity sport. If team success was as linear as your argument implies, sure, there'd be no problem gutting the current roster to get BS, having him lead us to the first round where he'll face the inevitable wall and shrink, and try that for a couple years before shipping him out to X location and bringing in another star to carry us the rest of the way to a chip.

    But that's not how it works, is it? How many good, great teams had their peaks in the second round, WCF, or even Finals, only to be derailed or disbanded and never getting back to that success again? , these Sixers could very well be a poster boy of that - a Nephew shot away from the Finals, and it's all been downhill ever since. And a big part, not all of it of course, but a big part of that downfall has been due to BS himself. Even his own coach couldn't lie through his teeth and tell the media he can be a championship contending PG. Doc was stupid to say what he did, but it's the truthness of his statement that made it so controversial, not how wrong it was. The writing's on the wall, and everyone's read it.

    So, in an imaginary vaccuum, you could say get Simmons now, let him carry the team, worry about his flaws later. But this is reality. And the reality is the Spurs, once faced with the same wall Philly faced last year, will not have the big market draw, the deep pockets, the marketability to simply replace Simmons with a "true star" that'll do what Benny boy can't and won't ever be able to do. If a team like the Spurs doesn't get their #1 option from within (and no, this doesn't mean exclusively through the draft, but it does mean developing the star from the ground up), they'll never get it from outside.

    So you see where Philly is - they already have their MVP-level two-way player, a sufficient #3 guy, and an adequate cast of roleplayers. They literally are in the perfect position for Simmons to thrive - yet they're actively, violently trying to get rid of them. Why on Earth do you think the Spurs could do better, given their assets, to put a successful team around BS -- and more importantly, why do you think Simmons would be interested in staying in SA at all, while we rebuild the team to his needs?

    No, it's not the "no Simmons at any cost" camp that's hard to understand, tbh. And especially so given his recent antics. What a ing diva, and the worst kind - unable to back it up on the court when it matters.

  24. #1024
    BOlieve manufan10's Avatar
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