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Smoke = Klutch
The Spurs should have two or three prospects they truly believe in, and they should do any trade that doesn't require them to move more than one of those guys (and definitely not the top one). So if Primo is going to be the hope, then keep him and one of Johnson and Vassell. If Walker is that guy (he isn't, at least not in PATFO's minds for sure), then keep him and be willing to keep one of Primo, Vassell or Johnson. Everything else comes down to negotiation. Ideally, you keep White (or Murray if you roll that way), and you want to still have a functional team at the end of this. But the good thing about signing so many guys this summer is that there's basically an SL's worth of guys who can't be moved right now.
Smoke = Klutch
Not a fan of Simmons overall but if I had to pick amongst the prospects, Vassell and Walker are the easy ones to get rid of in my mind though 76ers will probably want someone else. Maybe even throw in Tre Jones who I like but his stock is higher now?
Yep. Spurs fans are some of the hollowest, ficklest, most nearsighted fans around. Simmons is given credit for what Embiid and a strong roster was doing. He was a problem when the game was on the line, and not for the opposing team. This is hilarious, seeing so many people freak out at manufactured news.
He has no leverage. He's signed for 4 years and his reputation is in tatters. I have no doubt he wouldn't be thrilled at first, but at the very least he'd have to put on a brave face and focus on re-building his reputation over the next couple of seasons.if they trade the farm and he refuses to even show up to training camp...
At that point, either the team would be good enough to keep him engaged (let's say they're able to retain White, Johnson, Samanic, Vassell or Walker IV, Jones, Primo, maybe Collins sticks too) or he could be rerouted to recoup the value given up.
I suspect a third team has to be brought in. Poeltl doesn't fit with Simmons here and wouldn't fit with Embiid and Drummond there, plus the 76ers need a veteran guard with a history of being a go-to type, even if they're past their prime (Dragic?).
Walker IV would probably hold little to no appeal to them given their depth of young guards/wings and Morey's reliance on analytics.
The Spurs would probably refuse to include White (not only the most Spursy of the youth or youngish, but unlike Murray, who'd be untenable with Simmons, he'd be ideal), Johnson, Primo and maybe Vassell. I could see anything else on the table and given their lack of a centerpiece, significant draft capital would be inevitable.
Last edited by TD 21; 08-20-2021 at 04:18 PM.
Here's the final offer the Spurs should make:
To Philly -- You've effectively insured by your actions up to now that Simmons can't be on your roster in October. That's untenable for you.
We'll take Simmons (and his horrible contract) if you also convey to us your next first round pick (unprotected). In return, we'll give you not one, but two second round picks (both protected). If you insist, we'll also give you Lonnie Walker IV (but, in fairness, we must disclose that he was sexually abused as a child).
Murray, Walker, Vassell, Poeltl and Bulls first round pick for Simmons, Tolliver and Reed? I don't think I do it but I think that's basically what it'd take if the Spurs want to trade for Simmons but are hesitant to give up one of their first rounders.
No ing way. Is this just summer idiocy season or what?
I'd probably choose to give a 1st and keep Vassell in that scenario..
Depends on if Walker is just a body there or is adding value for Philly. He's from PA, so I could see that being appealing. But if he's just a contract, then the Spurs should absolutely add Hutchison into the deal instead and through in a second or whatever. Walker would have his best chance at exceling with Simmons, and even though Ben is actually a very good scorer for someone who can't score away from the rim, the Spurs should want his offense. Forbes is also a good fit, so losing Walker isn't the end of the world. Certainly from my perspective, if that deal is a guaranteed sell for Philly, I do it and feel lucky. They still have Young, Aminu and all of their picks to pursue another piece. Or they can play out the year to see what happens first.
Rotation (assuming they can keep Lonnie)
Simmons, Jones
White, Forbes, Primo
Walker, McDermott
Johnson, Young, Aminu, Tolliver
Eubanks, Landale, Collins, Reed
Wieskamp, Bates-Diop
Incomplete. It might be worth it to pursue a trade for like Dragic. But I'd be interested in seeing that team grow.
Depends on if Walker is just a body there or is adding value for Philly. He's from PA, so I could see that being appealing. But if he's just a contract, then the Spurs should absolutely add Hutchison into the deal instead and through in a second or whatever. Walker would have his best chance at exceling with Simmons, and even though Ben is actually a very good scorer for someone who can't score away from the rim, the Spurs should want his offense. Forbes is also a good fit, so losing Walker isn't the end of the world. Certainly from my perspective, if that deal is a guaranteed sell for Philly, I do it and feel lucky. They still have Young, Aminu and all of their picks to pursue another piece. Or they can play out the year to see what happens first.
Rotation (assuming they can keep Lonnie)
Simmons, Jones
White, Forbes, Primo
Walker, McDermott
Johnson, Young, Aminu, Tolliver
Eubanks, Landale, Collins, Reed
Wieskamp, Bates-Diop
Incomplete. It might be worth it to pursue a trade for like Dragic. But I'd be interested in seeing that team grow.
That's not even getting in the ballpark (probably looking at multiple other 1sts; maybe Young going to a third team gets them another?) and I'd guess the Spurs would prioritize retaining most of the youth (save Murray, Poeltl, Walker IV) over draft picks and that, that would be the 76ers preferance too.
Same. Even though he's signed for 4 years, if you're trading for a star, especially one unlikely to be happy being traded here at least initially, you've got to start winning sooner than later.
I definitely wouldn't give up the 2023 1st rounder with Victor Wembenyama being in that draft.
Or Simmons retires early/pulls a Nephew and the Spurs are forced to move him for pennies on the dollar. His head doesn't seem to be too into basketball.
Simmons is easier to build around. The team would be more up tempo but they will lack a go get a basket scorer.
I wouldn't even contemplate a trade unless the Spurs were able to talk to Simmons and gauge where he's at mentally and how he'd take to playing in SA.
As I mentioned before, I think the Spurs need to pick their untouchables and hold onto them. Beyond that, everyone else on the team is there to serve the goal of either improving the members of the core (like trading for a new blue-chip player) or to create the best environment possible for the core to succeed. If Vassell is the core guy, you don't trade him. But if he's not, then moving him and keeping the picks is the smarter move, in my opinion. The Spurs should be prioritizing flexibility over talent in this deal, so keep their natural picks unen bered and holding onto their expiring contracts is a huge win, because they won't be done building with just Simmons and the blue-chippers. They'll need to be active in future trade markets, and while a Vassell who's not seen as the core would still be nice, but he would ultimately just be a role-player on a team in transition. If they get a contending core together, they will be able to acquire those role-players later. But trading a 2022 first means you lose out on 3/8 of the team's tradeable firsts (because in this case, the CHI first is also gone). If you protect that pick for three years, you miss out 6/8 of the tradeable picks. It's really damaging to the club's long-term trade prospects to give up picks if they have an alternative.
The are people talking about? Are you all brain damaged? Don't you realize there is NO market for Ben Simmons right now? There MIGHT be two teams -- SACTO and MIN -- interested, and Marc Stein is doing a Klutch favor and claiming the Spurs are interested, too?
Don't you realize this is all bull ? Don't you realize the market for Ben Simmons right now is WORSE than for Kawhi a few years ago?
As far as I know, Simmons wanting a trade is completely understandable. So I don't have any reason to believe he'd have an issue with playing in SA. I think he'll ultimately be happy on a team that really wants him rather than a club that has a night life.
You don’t think they’d rather Thad in there over Vassell? They are a good team and want to win and Thad is a good player and worth a first.
He's got about $140M reasons to not retire and again, he doesn't have leverage.
S bag had 1 season left on his contract. If he'd had 4, they'd have been able to command a king's ransom despite his antics to suppress his value.
Last edited by TD 21; 08-20-2021 at 04:57 PM.
Trade anyone not named Primo for him tbh
You’re going to burst a vein. Take a chill pill.
From everything I've heard (got a lot of family in and around Philly) the dude clubs harder than LDN ever did and is never in the gym. It wouldn't shock me at all if he decides to "rehab" or retire altogether.
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