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  1. #1
    Believe.
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    These days many fans want to trade Murray for Simmons. I'm wondering why. Murray has been improving each season. Next season he could be a 20+ guy with 38+% 3pt percentage. Seems to me this is better than Kawhi at his 5th season. Anyone has data to compare? Like Kawhi, Murray is a gym rat and had strong desire to be the best. Plus, he has the tools. With the Spurs' development system, he may be a super stay like Kawhi. Am I too crazy?

  2. #2
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Yes. Your crazy lol. Leonard started year 1. He was physically ready. His jumper looked good from the get go. He then got stronger and better at essentially every part of the game. Plus the guy was clutch as .

    Murray to me has poor balance on his shot. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a good shooter because of this. If Murray ever makes an all star, then a lot would have gone right for him and the spurs. Then there is a long way to go by being a MVP candidate every year.

  3. #3
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Most players improve every year. Spurs guys aren't special in that regard.

  4. #4
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    dejounte is worse than kawhi during their first 4 seasons in literally every category except assists (and arguably defensive rebounding)

    https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...12&p2yrto=2015

  5. #5
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    Murray is on the growth side of his career still. He's yet to hit his prime. So he will improve regardless of what team he is on. He may not get to Kawhi's level, but he doesn't have to get to Kawhi's level to be a top player in this league.

  6. #6
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    Dejounte has grown on me over the years. If Kawhi didn't have chronic injuries he'd be in the running for one of the top 3 players in the league. Not sure DJM can reach those heights.

    That said, I like him as a Spur.

  7. #7
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Kawhi's advanced stats were pretty much great from the very beginning, and only got better. Dejounte is barely hovering at a hair above average and has never even had a season where his Offensive Rating has been higher than his Defensive Rating. Kawhi has never had a season where his OFF/DEF ratings were upside down. I like Dejounte's versatility, but they're really not even comparable. Kawhi can be the best player on a great team. Dejounte's maybe the 4th best player on a great team.

  8. #8
    #POPOUT
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    lol no

  9. #9
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    Murray is a slightly better than average NBA player who has improved every year and that's great for us, but as much as I dislike that diva jerk Kawhi, he was and is a better overall player than Murray will possibly ever be. Those two are just in the same category.

  10. #10
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    Oh god this kind of thread again.

  11. #11
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    Poetl is another Tim Duncan

  12. #12
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Kawhi is an athletic freak with his freakish hands, and that helps him cover his guy defensively, or has better control of the ball. I cringe every time DJ attacks the paint. DJ needs to get stronger if he has any chance of becoming close to Kawhi.

  13. #13
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Yes. Murray is about a year (maaaybe 2) away from being a back to back DPOY, multiple all-star, and final mvp. We are lucky as
    Last edited by KobesAchilles; 09-02-2021 at 02:56 PM.

  14. #14
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Yes. Your crazy lol. Leonard started year 1. He was physically ready. His jumper looked good from the get go. He then got stronger and better at essentially every part of the game. Plus the guy was clutch as .

    Murray to me has poor balance on his shot. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a good shooter because of this. If Murray ever makes an all star, then a lot would have gone right for him and the spurs. Then there is a long way to go by being a MVP candidate every year.
    His jumper and dribble did not look good from the get go.

  15. #15
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    The best thing to ever happen to Murray's stock was that ACL injury. It bought him three years of excuses for why his development has mostly stagnated. He improves certain skills, but he hasn't actually gotten better on the court since his second year.

  16. #16
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    The best thing to ever happen to Murray's stock was that ACL injury. It bought him three years of excuses for why his development has mostly stagnated. He improves certain skills, but he hasn't actually gotten better on the court since his second year.
    I think he's gotten a lot better if you look at things like his assist to turnover ratio, his overall court vision, his ball-handling, his scoring. I mean, he averaged 16, 7 and 5 last year with his steals and turnovers nearly equal. I think for teams that don't watch the Spurs closely, Murray could be a coveted trade piece.


    He was cringe-worthy running the show those first couple of seasons. Now he has stretches where he's really good, albeit mostly short stretches. To your point about improving overall on the court...yeah he's not great, but certainly not as bad as he was earlier in his career. I'd say he's improved a bunch from where he started, but his personal bar was set pretty darn low based on those first couple of seasons.
    Last edited by Ed Helicopter Jones; 09-02-2021 at 03:25 PM.

  17. #17
    Believe. OldMan88's Avatar
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    Murray is completely different type of player than KL, plus I don’t think he has a POS bat crazy uncle pulling his strings.

  18. #18
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    I think he's gotten a lot better if you look at things like his assist to turnover ratio, his overall court vision, his ball-handling, his scoring. I mean, he averaged 16, 7 and 5 last year with his steals and turnovers nearly equal. I think for teams that don't watch the Spurs closely, Murray could be a coveted trade piece.


    He was cringe-worthy running the show those first couple of seasons. Now he has stretches where he's really good, albeit mostly short stretches. To your point about improving overall on the court...yeah he's not great, but certainly not as bad as he was earlier in his career. I'd say he's improved a bunch from where he started, but his personal bar was set pretty darn low based on those first couple of seasons.
    They all have people (such as pro scouts) who watch every team closesly and they don't rely on counting stats without context to inform decisions or determine value.

    A supposed "PG", who's middling (mid range pullups and finishing at the rim) to worse (3-point shootning of all types, getting to the rim, advanced play making) in every coveted offensive area, is not going to interest many teams.

  19. #19
    Believe.
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    Murray was incredibly raw when coming into the league and more so than Leonard. I don't have a crystal ball but he still has a lot room for growth. I don't expect a top 10 player like Leonard but possibly all star level with elite defensive prowess. Like everyone else on the team, this year will tell us a lot about the talent level on this team.

  20. #20
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    The guy I was hoping Dejounte could be was actually Gary Payton. His build and his body is very similar to Gary. At this point I don't think he will ever be on Payton's level.

  21. #21
    Veteran 99 Problems's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=KobesAchilles;10595529]Yes. Murray is about a year (maaaybe 2) away from being a back to back DPOY, multiple all-star, and final mvp. We are lucky as [/QUOTE



    Especially now, as we lost King Patty.

  22. #22
    Spurs forever DeRozan m8's Avatar
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    How can someone be so blind to ceilings?

  23. #23
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    If you'd made this claim at the end of 2018 it might not have been so crazy
    21 year old second team all defense.
    Sumer of 2018 Nephew leaves, Fall of 2018 DJM tears ACL
    Last year pretty darn good year a little improvement and you have a borderline all star on a decent contract. Not a nephew, but not bad.

  24. #24
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    The guy I was hoping Dejounte could be was actually Gary Payton. His build and his body is very similar to Gary. At this point I don't think he will ever be on Payton's level.
    Probably White is closer to Gary Payton. However all three of them have their own style.

  25. #25
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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